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Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:07 pm

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:


The thing is LI won’t have 30 seat planes. They’re essentially stuck with the leased ATRs they have now. Any plan to re-fleet (and therefore re-train pilots) is a non starter as LI doesn’t have the resources to do that. The new LI will have to make it work with ATRs, a more aggressive BW and one government on which to rely.



Gaston's plan is to right size down to smaller planes, . The reality is that the southern Caribbean will no longer be available to LI. The northern Caribbean cannot really absorb even the ATR42s. WM cannot service the northern Caribbean as SBH is their priority and they will be a plane down. Inter loves the grandiose and is betting on BGI even though that is far from its EIS base, and some might argue replacing LI up north might be more appropriate, given their fleet of 30/19 seat planes. The BGI hub can absorb 2 airlines at best so one of the 3 will have to go and it isnt going to be BW.

It might well be that SKB and DOM might have to cough up some money for L!2.0. The regional market is the largest for DOM (though most is on ferries from the French islands) and the 2nd largest for SKB, which is also the HQ for the ECCB/ECCX. The latter will need reliable access to ANU, SLU, BGI and POS. Its far north and its market is somewhat thin, so it doesnt have the best bargaining position.


Gaston’s plan is anything but downsizing. That might be the initial plan but medium to long term, he is looking to expand:

However, the Antigua plan said if the existing shareholder governments are not interested in investing in the reorganized LIAT, they will be requested to surrender their shares for EC$1.00, which it claims is a superior offer to what they would get in liquidation.

“As far as practicable, the private sector should be encouraged to participate in the recapitalization and directorship of LIAT. Private sector ownership and participation is desirable and would bring a greater focus on commercial operations of LIAT and profitability.”

The plan also notes that LIAT, after it returns to good financial health, is to offer jet services out of Miami on a wet lease of two jet aircraft, should necessary feasibility studies confirm that such services would be profitable.

The plan indicates that the jet service could also open up new markets that connects the Caribbean and Latin America to include Panama to facilitate inter-regional movement of people and goods.

https://www.caribbeannationalweekly.com ... quidation/
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:23 am

That jet services comes after LI is stabilized. To get there LI will be down sized. Gaston has already told people that some will lose their jobs. You will note the conditionalities around adding jets. Well the "study" will show that AA will tear them up, yes the same AA that he pays subsidies to, and who bring in most of his US tourists. ANU will not have BGI to bail them out and I doubt these private investors will show up. ANU will get Chinese or other dubious $$.

Gaston is interested in LI for jobs and if he has already told them that some will be gone, they will be gone in the near term. He has covered himself. ANU now has nobody to run to, if LI2.0 gets up and running. The probability that it will be up and running is tied to the fact that WM cannot absorb the LI gap in the north, its doubtful that BW will, and so someone will step in and fill the gap. If LI2.0 works it will resemble Inter Caribbean more than it does LI1974.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:51 pm

AA appears to have pushed MIA-BGI back to September 9. I’m surprised by this as AA continues to serve smaller Eastern Caribbean markets and from memory BGI’s entry requirements don’t seem any more onerous than say SVD.
 
windian425
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:15 am

BGI delayed the AA MIA-BGI flights due to the unchecked spreading of COVID-19 In south Florida. Permission to restart services was denied.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:19 am

Brickell305 wrote:
AA appears to have pushed MIA-BGI back to September 9. I’m surprised by this as AA continues to serve smaller Eastern Caribbean markets and from memory BGI’s entry requirements don’t seem any more onerous than say SVD.



BGI told them to push back and they want to restrict the arrival of US visitors until Sept at the earliest. The Bahamas no longer wants US visitors and Puerto Rica is trying their best to discouraging them visiting that island. This despite being critically dependent on the US market. SVD has also announced that it might restrict access to US visitors.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:29 pm

windian425 wrote:
BGI delayed the AA MIA-BGI flights due to the unchecked spreading of COVID-19 In south Florida. Permission to restart services was denied.


caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
AA appears to have pushed MIA-BGI back to September 9. I’m surprised by this as AA continues to serve smaller Eastern Caribbean markets and from memory BGI’s entry requirements don’t seem any more onerous than say SVD.



BGI told them to push back and they want to restrict the arrival of US visitors until Sept at the earliest. The Bahamas no longer wants US visitors and Puerto Rica is trying their best to discouraging them visiting that island. This despite being critically dependent on the US market. SVD has also announced that it might restrict access to US visitors.


Thanks for the responses. On further review, it appears that Sep 9 may be a tentative date as well as AA has pushed back several of its Caribbean/Latin America destinations to that date (or later):

BDA
BGI
BOG
CUR
ELH
FDF (Dec 17)
FPO
GCM
GEO
GGT
GND
LIR
MHH (Sep 12)
NAS
POS (Oct 7)
PTP (Dec 19)
PTY
RTB (Nov 21)
SKB (Sep 12)
 
trini81
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:09 pm

https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/a ... 7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.
 
Caymanair
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:53 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:10 pm

AA is not permitted to serve GCM in September, no scheduled commercial service will be allowed then. So a 9th September resumption date is unlikely.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:02 pm

trini81 wrote:
https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/air-antilles-to-begin-flight-services-to-st-lucia-barbados-and-dominica/?fbclid=IwAR3tL-uE2s2zy9GmBemjAkfsWym1hKoHigqdIEEtVZUSQba_Z7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.


So Air Antilles 2x daily SLU BGI and OCL, Inter and BW also planning to serve those routes. This is the 4th most important regional route into BGI but it cannot support 4 airlines.
 
windian425
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:00 am

http://airantilles.com/templates/bm/new ... bados.html
link from Air Antilles directly. This is just to much capacity to soon.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:20 am

caribny wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/air-antilles-to-begin-flight-services-to-st-lucia-barbados-and-dominica/?fbclid=IwAR3tL-uE2s2zy9GmBemjAkfsWym1hKoHigqdIEEtVZUSQba_Z7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.


So Air Antilles 2x daily SLU BGI and OCL, Inter and BW also planning to serve those routes. This is the 4th most important regional route into BGI but it cannot support 4 airlines.

I think double daily ATRs in August is too much capacity even without other carriers. LI’s flights pre COVID weren’t going out 100% full and they had connections thru BGI all up and down the Caribbean. Twice daily post COVID without the network LI had? Good luck.
 
danipawa
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:51 am

so Barbados is now the focus of Caribbean carriers: Intercaribbean, One Caribbean, Caribbean Airlines, Air Antilles...
 
windian425
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:00 am

Next few months will be interesting to say the least.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:20 am

trini81 wrote:
https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/air-antilles-to-begin-flight-services-to-st-lucia-barbados-and-dominica/?fbclid=IwAR3tL-uE2s2zy9GmBemjAkfsWym1hKoHigqdIEEtVZUSQba_Z7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.


Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/air-antilles-to-begin-flight-services-to-st-lucia-barbados-and-dominica/?fbclid=IwAR3tL-uE2s2zy9GmBemjAkfsWym1hKoHigqdIEEtVZUSQba_Z7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.


So Air Antilles 2x daily SLU BGI and OCL, Inter and BW also planning to serve those routes. This is the 4th most important regional route into BGI but it cannot support 4 airlines.

I think double daily ATRs in August is too much capacity even without other carriers. LI’s flights pre-COVID weren’t going out 100% full and they had connections thru BGI all up and down the Caribbean. Twice daily post COVID without the network LI had? Good luck.


BW just announced BGI-SLU 3w from Aug 02, DOM and OGL will be added next. The southern Caribbean is getting crowded for the first time in a long time and I don't see how LIAT coming back into that shark waters. I love the competition that is building, as the customers will have choices and hopefully better pricing structure and service.
All ah we is one family
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:58 am

caribbean484 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/07/28/air-antilles-to-begin-flight-services-to-st-lucia-barbados-and-dominica/?fbclid=IwAR3tL-uE2s2zy9GmBemjAkfsWym1hKoHigqdIEEtVZUSQba_Z7RFNXXvuQo

Air Antilles plans to start flights between SLU and BGI and between DOM and BGI. From Aug 1st daily flights between SLU and BGI and from Aug 8th double daily between SLU and BGI and daily between DOM and BGI.


Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:

So Air Antilles 2x daily SLU BGI and OCL, Inter and BW also planning to serve those routes. This is the 4th most important regional route into BGI but it cannot support 4 airlines.

I think double daily ATRs in August is too much capacity even without other carriers. LI’s flights pre-COVID weren’t going out 100% full and they had connections thru BGI all up and down the Caribbean. Twice daily post COVID without the network LI had? Good luck.


BW just announced BGI-SLU 3w from Aug 02, DOM and OGL will be added next. The southern Caribbean is getting crowded for the first time in a long time and I don't see how LIAT coming back into that shark waters. I love the competition that is building, as the customers will have choices and hopefully better pricing structure and service.


One of the Antilles flights continues to DOM and the other I assume to FDF as I doubt that they will overnight at SLU, so not all seats are allocated to the SLU BGI market. There seems to be a fair amount of FDF BGI traffic as both LI and Antilles flew that route, LI often with 72s. I assume that BW and Antilles will fight it out and the others will be pushed out. BW will have to step up to at least daily though to be competitive. Maybe Antilles will use the 42s as the 72s are probably more used for their FDF PTP flights, and eventually to SDQ once that restarts. There will definitely be a shakeout as the southern Caribbean cannot absorb more than 2 carriers on each route, with only one on the BGI DOM..


It was evident that LI was gone from the southern Caribbean when Mia announced 6 airlines were interested in BGI. That is why she refused to listen to Gaston's cries and quickly handed over her shares for a $. LI2.0 will have to focus on its ANU hub and connections from the south thru the north, as well as activity up north. I dont see any private investor interested given its limited scope, but maybe Gaston can find some "funny money". I think that LI will battle Inter, and BW and Antilles will compete.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:07 am

danipawa wrote:
so Barbados is now the focus of Caribbean carriers: Intercaribbean, One Caribbean, Caribbean Airlines, Air Antilles...


The market cannot absorb all, so I think that there will be a squeeze out or segmentation. BW and Antilles are 2 large carriers located in the neighborhood. I dont see Antilles expanding beyond the routes announced. OCL will likely focus on the BGI SVD and maybe BGI GND, working around BW with higher frequencies, or it might be forced to remain a charter. Inter I think will be driven away from a southern Caribbean BGI hub to connecting BGI and the Windward Islands with the northern Caribbean in addition to filling the LI gap up north. I see them adding SKB and resuming its USVI service. Inter will be the new guy on the BGI block so may have a tougher time establishing itself, Antilles already flies to BGI. Silver will explore running flights from SJU (maybe USVI) to the southern Caribbean.
 
gunnerman
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 am

Let's see what flights arrive at BGI from Europe and north America as some schedules will be set to pick up transfer traffic. For example, BW200 (departing at 1715) connects with BA2155 (arriving at 1505) on Tuesday 1 September to get passengers from BGI to SVD and GND. And from 6 October VS131 is scheduled to arrive at 1500. Of course there has to be an interline agreement.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:03 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Let's see what flights arrive at BGI from Europe and north America as some schedules will be set to pick up transfer traffic. For example, BW200 (departing at 1715) connects with BA2155 (arriving at 1505) on Tuesday 1 September to get passengers from BGI to SVD and GND. And from 6 October VS131 is scheduled to arrive at 1500. Of course there has to be an interline agreement.


Does it get back in time for the return flight to LGW? A problem with low frequencies is that two way connections dont work without massive airport waits.

There is a possibility that BW gets the O&D and connections thru its hubs and Inter Carib (if they can sustain their BGI hub) get the interline, as they already have these arrangements set up. They already work with BA to connect EIS with the UK, and can conceivably do the same for SVD and DOM.
 
baje427
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:16 pm

There won't be any room left for a Liat2020 by the time they can relaunch most routes will be taken. I understand the Antigua government is launching for political reasons but that money could be put elsewhere. I dont see how they will be able to support the airline without the help of other governments.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:58 am

baje427 wrote:
There won't be any room left for a Liat2020 by the time they can relaunch most routes will be taken. I understand the Antigua government is launching for political reasons but that money could be put elsewhere. I dont see how they will be able to support the airline without the help of other governments.


L12.0 might well go back to its ancient origins of being Leeward Islands Air Transport. All of the route announcements have a BGI focus. Aside from the fact that I think that is is now overload there arent any announcements of filling the LI gap in the north. While the northern routes aren't as popular as those down south, because of lower volumes, there are people travelling. So it might well be that LI2.0 might be needed if no one rises to the challenge. I think that people are overly excited about BGI, especially as we are still to assess the impacts of COVID19 on intra regional travel.

SKB and DOM might well have to join ANU in running some sort of Twin Otter type service. DOM needs connections to the islands up north as there is a large Dominican VFR. SKB generates/attracts business travel as it is the financial hub of the OECS (pulling in some business travel not only within the OECS but also BGI and POS), and while SXM might be less attractive than it once was people will still travel there.

I just dont see BW, located all the way down south, serving this segment properly, WM doesnt seem able and Inter Carib prefers the grandiosity of entering a crowded BGI market than the practicality of using its 19/30 seat planes in filling the LI gap in the northern Caribbean. Both in terms of travel within the northern Caribbean, and connecting the northern Caribbean with points south, even including GEO.

What I have discovered with the Eastern Caribbean is how segmented it is. There are the GEO POS GND which are highly ignorant of points north. And there is ANU SKB SXM and the BVI/USVI which are mainly cut off from points south. BGI, SLU and DOM being some sort of transition zone, so I know that to some LIAT is only about its BGI and POS operations but there really is more to it than that. With LI cutting its northern routes to the bone the load factors became higher, and much of this connecting to points south is also business/VFR travel.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:05 am

And as for those which doubt that there is a northern market let us look at LI's operations. Early morning SKB ANU with continuing service to BGI and GEO. Afternoon daily flights EIS SXM ANU, and SXM SKB ANU, these both having very high loads. Then there are 3x weekly STT ANU and SJU ANU. The LI STT route was experimental when it restarted, and in fact there was even a suggestion that it be seasonal. LI kept it up all the way to the end, even claiming that it was a decent performer. It also restarted its 3x EIS BGI service, even after it dropped its "social" routes. No one has announced plans to fill this gap, so it might well be that LI2.0 will be a necessity and not a Gaston fantasy, on a sharply stripped down basis of course.
 
baje427
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:51 am

Most of the carriers flying out of BGI wont be around by December. I think 3M,Air Sunshine, WM and the like will have the northern Caribbean sorted. If LI does change its fleet to twin otters its pilots will have to retrain and all the flight attendants will be done away with. There is demand for going from the Northern Caribbean to the Southern Caribbean but in this environment I would be surprised if thats more than 15 people a day.
 
Brickell305
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:50 pm

baje427 wrote:
Most of the carriers flying out of BGI wont be around by December. I think 3M,Air Sunshine, WM and the like will have the northern Caribbean sorted. If LI does change its fleet to twin otters its pilots will have to retrain and all the flight attendants will be done away with. There is demand for going from the Northern Caribbean to the Southern Caribbean but in this environment I would be surprised if thats more than 15 people a day.

I'm fairly certain that what will be left in the Southern Caribbean will be BW (it will up its frequency and capacity at BGI as demand warrants and it receives more ATRs) and 3S (serving the destinations with highest demand from the French islands: BGI, SLU, DOM, maybe a venture into POS). One Caribbean and InterCaribbean have no brand recognition, more limited resources and what will be seen as an inferior product.

Quite frankly, I don't see LI flying again. However, if it does, I don't see it switching out its fleet. It will be too costly. Also, one of the advantages LI has is that it has "nice" planes compared to WM, 3M, etc. I beg everyone not to underestimate how much the revival of LI is tied to ANU's politics and less to do with a raw business need. If LI returns, it will almost certainly attempt to operate as much as practical in the same way it operated prior to COVID. It will most definitely try to replicate its north-south network up to the point where there is no longer any money to keep it afloat.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:55 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
baje427 wrote:
Most of the carriers flying out of BGI wont be around by December. I think 3M,Air Sunshine, WM and the like will have the northern Caribbean sorted. If LI does change its fleet to twin otters its pilots will have to retrain and all the flight attendants will be done away with. There is demand for going from the Northern Caribbean to the Southern Caribbean but in this environment I would be surprised if thats more than 15 people a day.

I'm fairly certain that what will be left in the Southern Caribbean will be BW (it will up its frequency and capacity at BGI as demand warrants and it receives more ATRs) and 3S (serving the destinations with highest demand from the French islands: BGI, SLU, DOM, maybe a venture into POS). One Caribbean and InterCaribbean have no brand recognition, more limited resources and what will be seen as an inferior product.

Quite frankly, I don't see LI flying again. However, if it does, I don't see it switching out its fleet. It will be too costly. Also, one of the advantages LI has is that it has "nice" planes compared to WM, 3M, etc. I beg everyone not to underestimate how much the revival of LI is tied to ANU's politics and less to do with a raw business need. If LI returns, it will almost certainly attempt to operate as much as practical in the same way it operated prior to COVID. It will most definitely try to replicate its north-south network up to the point where there is no longer any money to keep it afloat.


I don't think anyone underestimates the politics behind LI and ANU, and why Gaston Brown is fighting everyone to keep LIAT alive. Gaston Brown made numerous promises to the LI employees to get some concessions from the unions last year when LI went around the region looking for subsidies and other financing. His fights with Motley and Gonzales in the last few weeks showed that he knows if 500 people go home in ANU, his political career is basically over. Engineers, managers and pilots are mostly based in ANU, all high pay jobs, as well the airline the airport support employment system the airline brings.
LI 2.0 must be launched in order for Gaston Brown to continue to be PM in ANU, however the issue not is that the other regional Governments do not have the finances to keep the airline alive this time. and the amount of competition that is developing in the Southern Caribbean, them having a tough time in the Northern Caribbean and this COVID issue LI will still be losing money.
All ah we is one family
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:20 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
baje427 wrote:
Most of the carriers flying out of BGI wont be around by December. I think 3M,Air Sunshine, WM and the like will have the northern Caribbean sorted. If LI does change its fleet to twin otters its pilots will have to retrain and all the flight attendants will be done away with. There is demand for going from the Northern Caribbean to the Southern Caribbean but in this environment I would be surprised if thats more than 15 people a day.

I'm fairly certain that what will be left in the Southern Caribbean will be BW (it will up its frequency and capacity at BGI as demand warrants and it receives more ATRs) and 3S (serving the destinations with highest demand from the French islands: BGI, SLU, DOM, maybe a venture into POS). One Caribbean and InterCaribbean have no brand recognition, more limited resources and what will be seen as an inferior product.

Quite frankly, I don't see LI flying again. However, if it does, I don't see it switching out its fleet. It will be too costly. Also, one of the advantages LI has is that it has "nice" planes compared to WM, 3M, etc. I beg everyone not to underestimate how much the revival of LI is tied to ANU's politics and less to do with a raw business need. If LI returns, it will almost certainly attempt to operate as much as practical in the same way it operated prior to COVID. It will most definitely try to replicate its north-south network up to the point where there is no longer any money to keep it afloat.


I don't think anyone underestimates the politics behind LI and ANU, and why Gaston Brown is fighting everyone to keep LIAT alive. Gaston Brown made numerous promises to the LI employees to get some concessions from the unions last year when LI went around the region looking for subsidies and other financing. His fights with Motley and Gonzales in the last few weeks showed that he knows if 500 people go home in ANU, his political career is basically over. Engineers, managers and pilots are mostly based in ANU, all high pay jobs, as well the airline the airport support employment system the airline brings.
LI 2.0 must be launched in order for Gaston Brown to continue to be PM in ANU, however the issue not is that the other regional Governments do not have the finances to keep the airline alive this time. and the amount of competition that is developing in the Southern Caribbean, them having a tough time in the Northern Caribbean and this COVID issue LI will still be losing money.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. When I say don't underestimate the politics behind it, I'm not just referring to the economic/job impact LI has. Let me put it this way, LI is also viewed by many in ANU as a source of pride. It is viewed as being the product that ANU exports to the rest of the Caribbean. Gaston's fights with Mia and Ralph have as much to do with creating the narrative that outsiders are attempting to hurt not just LI, but ANU for their own gain as they do with job preservation.There's almost a sense of entitlement at this point that regional connectivity should be provided by ANU. Hence, Gaston's insistence that ANU must be THE base. While yes, that is because of the need to preserve jobs, it is also because there are segments of the wider populace that view that as ANU's right. So yes, they face increased competition in the Southern Caribbean in an environment of lower demand. However, IMO, if LI does in fact return to the skies, they will attempt to return as much as practicable to what they were before. Even beyond what is needed solely for job preservation, the new LI will try to recreate as much of the old LI as it can out of a sense of pride and some entitlement that it is LI's (and by extension ANU's) role to connect the Caribbean.

I don't think this is sustainable for very long as eventually reality will hit. However, this is where I see the new LI going. Ending up with the same issues as before by making the same mistakes as it did in the past.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:57 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
I'm fairly certain that what will be left in the Southern Caribbean will be BW (it will up its frequency and capacity at BGI as demand warrants and it receives more ATRs) and 3S (serving the destinations with highest demand from the French islands: BGI, SLU, DOM, maybe a venture into POS). One Caribbean and InterCaribbean have no brand recognition, more limited resources and what will be seen as an inferior product.

Quite frankly, I don't see LI flying again. However, if it does, I don't see it switching out its fleet. It will be too costly. Also, one of the advantages LI has is that it has "nice" planes compared to WM, 3M, etc. I beg everyone not to underestimate how much the revival of LI is tied to ANU's politics and less to do with a raw business need. If LI returns, it will almost certainly attempt to operate as much as practical in the same way it operated prior to COVID. It will most definitely try to replicate its north-south network up to the point where there is no longer any money to keep it afloat.


I don't think anyone underestimates the politics behind LI and ANU, and why Gaston Brown is fighting everyone to keep LIAT alive. Gaston Brown made numerous promises to the LI employees to get some concessions from the unions last year when LI went around the region looking for subsidies and other financing. His fights with Motley and Gonzales in the last few weeks showed that he knows if 500 people go home in ANU, his political career is basically over. Engineers, managers and pilots are mostly based in ANU, all high pay jobs, as well the airline the airport support employment system the airline brings.
LI 2.0 must be launched in order for Gaston Brown to continue to be PM in ANU, however the issue not is that the other regional Governments do not have the finances to keep the airline alive this time. and the amount of competition that is developing in the Southern Caribbean, them having a tough time in the Northern Caribbean and this COVID issue LI will still be losing money.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. When I say don't underestimate the politics behind it, I'm not just referring to the economic/job impact LI has. Let me put it this way, LI is also viewed by many in ANU as a source of pride. It is viewed as being the product that ANU exports to the rest of the Caribbean. Gaston's fights with Mia and Ralph have as much to do with creating the narrative that outsiders are attempting to hurt not just LI, but ANU for their own gain as they do with job preservation.There's almost a sense of entitlement at this point that regional connectivity should be provided by ANU. Hence, Gaston's insistence that ANU must be THE base. While yes, that is because of the need to preserve jobs, it is also because there are segments of the wider populace that view that as ANU's right. So yes, they face increased competition in the Southern Caribbean in an environment of lower demand. However, IMO, if LI does in fact return to the skies, they will attempt to return as much as practicable to what they were before. Even beyond what is needed solely for job preservation, the new LI will try to recreate as much of the old LI as it can out of a sense of pride and some entitlement that it is LI's (and by extension ANU's) role to connect the Caribbean.

I don't think this is sustainable for very long as eventually reality will hit. However, this is where I see the new LI going. Ending up with the same issues as before by making the same mistakes as it did in the past.


I agree, and as you mentioned, reality is hitting the business model of LI that ANU is no longer the center of connectivity for intra regional travel. I think Trintocan mentioned it pretty well in his post. LIAT's issue is that the majority of their business is not in ANU and the norther Caribbean no longer goes to ANU in high numbers as in the past. Most of the islands are now connected to London or US through MIA than in the days of connecting in SJU and ANU. Then their larger fleet in the ATRs are no longer suited for the routes in the Leewards.
In BGI they are now facing new airline competition that are aggressively taking on routes that they used to have all to themselves. Turn to POS, which is important in the southern Caribbean with business and leisure traffic, they are in a uphill battle to compete with BW. The opportunity LIAT has is in connecting the Sothern Caribbean to the Northern Caribbean, but CAL also plans to take the other 2 ATRs as soon as the boarders are reopened to start flight to SKB, EIS, SJU, DOM and add more network to ANU.

This is the reality of LI and a fleet change will cost significantly more than ANU can put out, considering the situation LI is with also pensions and other liabilities. I believe they can have a presence still but their strategy has to change significantly to the reality that is coming. I still maintain a fleet of 5 ATR42 should be sufficient, but a major route restructure is needed. He also needs to forget about the jets coming into LI, that is a reality that is not coming to past and has been bandied about in the last decades.

This Article by anna aero shows the decline in LIAT seats from 2010 to 2017 by 41% and shows back then that the top routes in terms of seats were from POS or BGI
This is an interesting quote
LIAT does not operate any scheduled non-stop domestic services, with its flights focused on short international hops between the Caribbean islands. One notable trend since 2008 is an increase in the airline’s average capacity per flight. In 2008 the average number of seats on a LIAT flight was 45, but by 2017 this had increased by 12 to 59 seats. In 2008 the largest aircraft in the fleet was the 50-seat Q300, but the airline was also operating smaller DHC-6 Twin Otters. Since then it has undergone a fleet renewal which included the introduction of the larger ATR 72.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/05/25/liat-c ... ked-route/
All ah we is one family
 
windian425
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:36 pm

CAL has just added a schedule or 10x weekly flights BGI-OGL-BGI starting 6 August, 2020 and 3x weekly BGI-SLU-BGI. On some days CAL will operate 2 flights to OGL; 1 in the morning and another in the evening all returning to the BGI mini-base. No room will exist for LI2020.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:59 pm

baje427 wrote:
Most of the carriers flying out of BGI wont be around by December. I think 3M,Air Sunshine, WM and the like will have the northern Caribbean sorted. If LI does change its fleet to twin otters its pilots will have to retrain and all the flight attendants will be done away with. There is demand for going from the Northern Caribbean to the Southern Caribbean but in this environment I would be surprised if that's more than 15 people a day.



We were told that SBH is WM's prize route and they dont have the bandwidth to provide sufficient capacity to replace LI. Air Sunshine looks good on paper but its an air taxi service, not a scheduled airline. Do we really want a US carrier to be entering intra Caribbean space, because this is what 3M is? BW will never get route rights to fly SJU STT (they were denied SJU EIS) so why should we allow a US carrier route rights SKB ANU, ANU DOM? LI was tossed off the EIS SJU route by the likes of Cape and Seaborne.

LI will not be around for 90 days so will have ample time to retrain if need be. They arent going to have a strong brand like BW up north, so can gain market share, especially if no one adequately fits this space. People have to travel from SKB to BGI and someone will have to get them there. DOM ANU is the densest route within the OECS and someone will have to serve it, and will have to provide connectivity to BA when they do so.

Humans being what we are we greedily rush at the big prize which is BGI, but that island merits 2 carriers on each route. The northern Caribbean and connectivity down to the southern Caribbean is ignored and will result in LI2.0 not being a fantasy but a necessity. ANU and SKB between them account for over 70k passengers to the rest of the Caribbean annually.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:05 pm

windian425 wrote:
CAL has just added a schedule or 10x weekly flights BGI-OGL-BGI starting 6 August, 2020 and 3x weekly BGI-SLU-BGI. On some days CAL will operate 2 flights to OGL; 1 in the morning and another in the evening all returning to the BGI mini-base. No room will exist for LI2020.



This is my point. Contrary to popular belief 60-70% of people using LI didnt do BGI O&D. There is a huge Guyanese population in ANU as well as EIS, and decent numbers in SKB and SXM. Which carrier is going to handle this travel reliably? So BGI will not be available to L!2.0 and definitely not POS but unless carriers start looking to fill the other markets (and so far they havent) not only will there be space for LI2.0 but it will be a necessity. ANU BGI was one of LIs more profitable routes. Currently its only accessible and BWs Sa/Sun service which continues to KIN. Both islands are open.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:44 pm

caribny wrote:
windian425 wrote:
CAL has just added a schedule or 10x weekly flights BGI-OGL-BGI starting 6 August, 2020 and 3x weekly BGI-SLU-BGI. On some days CAL will operate 2 flights to OGL; 1 in the morning and another in the evening all returning to the BGI mini-base. No room will exist for LI2020.



This is my point. Contrary to popular belief 60-70% of people using LI didnt do BGI O&D. There is a huge Guyanese population in ANU as well as EIS, and decent numbers in SKB and SXM. Which carrier is going to handle this travel reliably? So BGI will not be available to L!2.0 and definitely not POS but unless carriers start looking to fill the other markets (and so far they havent) not only will there be space for LI2.0 but it will be a necessity. ANU BGI was one of LIs more profitable routes. Currently its only accessible and BWs Sa/Sun service which continues to KIN. Both islands are open.

I expect BW to get OGL/GEO demand once they fully restart ops. A significant portion of ANU-Guyana demand has always been handled by BW as well (connecting through POS) on its 2x weekly flights. I fully expect BW to strengthen its hubs at POS/BGI as it receives more ATR deliveries. While BW definitely will not replace LI's network wholesale and fly to every nook and cranny. To the extent that there is potentially profitable demand, BW will look to serve it. It essentially has to with all the additional planes it has coming. We'll see whether the new LI can compete effectively with that. If a hypothetical BGI-DOM-ANU-SKB routing can make money, I don't see why BW wouldn't try it. Especially after already announcing plans to start milk routes up to the northern islands and now with a base in BGI.
 
dominicl316
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:02 pm

caribny wrote:
BW will never get route rights to fly SJU STT (they were denied SJU EIS) so why should we allow a US carrier route rights SKB ANU, ANU DOM? LI was tossed off the EIS SJU route by the likes of Cape and Seaborne.
.


Doesn't BW already have existing route rights to serve PR/USVI when they did so as a stopover on their KIN-ANU-BGI-POS milk run pre-1992?
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:00 pm

dominicl316 wrote:
caribny wrote:
BW will never get route rights to fly SJU STT (they were denied SJU EIS) so why should we allow a US carrier route rights SKB ANU, ANU DOM? LI was tossed off the EIS SJU route by the likes of Cape and Seaborne.
.


Doesn't BW already have existing route rights to serve PR/USVI when they did so as a stopover on their KIN-ANU-BGI-POS milk run pre-1992?


Yes and no. They have the rights to fly to the USVI and SJU, however what they asked for is an extension of the grant to include DOM and EIS which was not in the original exemptions. So the hurdle is getting EIS added to the exemption which the DOT has not commented on yet.
Here is the original route rights:
(a) scheduled foreign air transportation of persons, property and mail (1) between Trinidad
and Tobago via the intermediate points of Antigua, Aruba, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize,
Bermuda, Bonaire and Curacao, the Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic, Grenada,
Guadeloupe, Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique, St. Kitts, and St. Lucia, to the U.S. Virgin Islands,
San Juan, New York, Miami, Orlando, Boston, and Washington, D.C. and beyond San Juan to
Zurich and Stockholm, beyond New York to Toronto, and beyond Miami and San Juan to
Mexico and points in Central America except Belize;


Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:
windian425 wrote:
CAL has just added a schedule or 10x weekly flights BGI-OGL-BGI starting 6 August, 2020 and 3x weekly BGI-SLU-BGI. On some days CAL will operate 2 flights to OGL; 1 in the morning and another in the evening all returning to the BGI mini-base. No room will exist for LI2020.



This is my point. Contrary to popular belief 60-70% of people using LI didnt do BGI O&D. There is a huge Guyanese population in ANU as well as EIS, and decent numbers in SKB and SXM. Which carrier is going to handle this travel reliably? So BGI will not be available to L!2.0 and definitely not POS but unless carriers start looking to fill the other markets (and so far they havent) not only will there be space for LI2.0 but it will be a necessity. ANU BGI was one of LIs more profitable routes. Currently its only accessible and BWs Sa/Sun service which continues to KIN. Both islands are open.

I expect BW to get OGL/GEO demand once they fully restart ops. A significant portion of ANU-Guyana demand has always been handled by BW as well (connecting through POS) on its 2x weekly flights. I fully expect BW to strengthen its hubs at POS/BGI as it receives more ATR deliveries. While BW definitely will not replace LI's network wholesale and fly to every nook and cranny. To the extent that there is potentially profitable demand, BW will look to serve it. It essentially has to with all the additional planes it has coming. We'll see whether the new LI can compete effectively with that. If a hypothetical BGI-DOM-ANU-SKB routing can make money, I don't see why BW wouldn't try it. Especially after already announcing plans to start milk routes up to the northern islands and now with a base in BGI.


This is just a start, remember they are going to add flights to DOM, ANU and SKB soon also. The other issue I believe they are looking at is the schedule when things return to some normalcy. CAL had 44 flights POS-TAB-POS a day that took up 3-4 ATRs with the remaining 1-2 going to the region. The fleet was stretched and that's why they either had a 737 flight when holiday demand came in or leased an Swift ATR to fly the route in high times. So the two remaining will come when this start to open. The question is if there will be more added.
Last edited by caribbean484 on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All ah we is one family
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:23 pm

For LI 2020 to get off the ground at least three things are needed.
1. A viable business plan
2. Creditors, especially the aircraft lessors, to take a big haircut
3. New investors

Putting aside money matters for a moment, the business plan will be difficult to put together. As the southern Caribbean is looking too competitive, LIAT needs to make money in the northern Caribbean. There may be money to be made by getting people between ANU and DOM (assuming that 3S doesn't get into this market by routing passengers via its PTP base), but how many other routes will be profitable when there are airlines with a base in BGI and operating flights to ANU and other northern destinations? Any investor will want to see some hard figures showing profits, and it doesn't look promising.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:33 pm

danipawa wrote:
Dominican Rep to get a new international airport near PUJ, Bavaro Intl:

https://youtu.be/9KzRQFeDSjA


I was wonder danipawa, how is this airport suppose to be pulled off if PUJ is about 45 miles away and LRM is barely being used right now? I mean we saw B6 pulled out of LRM and most international travel to that airport are chartered services. How are these entrepreneurs going to make a new airport so close work, despite PUJ being expensive to operate in.
All ah we is one family
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:25 am

gunnerman wrote:
For LI 2020 to get off the ground at least three things are needed.
1. A viable business plan
2. Creditors, especially the aircraft lessors, to take a big haircut
3. New investors

Putting aside money matters for a moment, the business plan will be difficult to put together. As the southern Caribbean is looking too competitive, LIAT needs to make money in the northern Caribbean. There may be money to be made by getting people between ANU and DOM (assuming that 3S doesn't get into this market by routing passengers via its PTP base), but how many other routes will be profitable when there are airlines with a base in BGI and operating flights to ANU and other northern destinations? Any investor will want to see some hard figures showing profits, and it doesn't look promising.


Yes LI is gone as a carrier in the southern Caribbean, and yes LI2.0 might well be a challenge to get started. But if its LI2.0 or swim then LI2.0 it will be, BW isnt increasing its ATR fleet enough to service the more "remote" parts of LIs network. Given the political importance of the TAB route when problems emerge BW will not want too many of its planes stretched up north now that LIs demise has opened up opportunities in markets closer to POS.

These islands cannot wait around to see if BW decides to service them as it seeks to cherry pick LIs best routes. WM cannot do this, and Inter Caribbean hasnt indicated that they are interested in doing so. In any case there is already evidence that Inter Caribbean has been stretched by its recent expansions and likely lacks the bandwidth even if it insists that it can. TripAdvisor reviews state otherwise.
 
danipawa
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:31 am

caribbean484 wrote:
danipawa wrote:
Dominican Rep to get a new international airport near PUJ, Bavaro Intl:

https://youtu.be/9KzRQFeDSjA


I was wonder danipawa, how is this airport suppose to be pulled off if PUJ is about 45 miles away and LRM is barely being used right now? I mean we saw B6 pulled out of LRM and most international travel to that airport are chartered services. How are these entrepreneurs going to make a new airport so close work, despite PUJ being expensive to operate in.


This airport is private, shareholders are Dominicans and Spanish families. They want to gain traffic offering lower taxes to operate from there. This airport is very criticized because of the fast approval by the actual government (who is getting out this coming month) so people are saying there are some corruption on it. Maybe some politians are in the project.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:50 am

caribbean484 wrote:
[

This is just a start, remember they are going to add flights to DOM, ANU and SKB soon also. The other issue I believe they are looking at is the schedule when things return to some normalcy. CAL had 44 flights POS-TAB-POS a day that took up 3-4 ATRs with the remaining 1-2 going to the region. The fleet was stretched and that's why they either had a 737 flight when holiday demand came in or leased an Swift ATR to fly the route in high times. So the two remaining will come when this start to open. The question is if there will be more added.



And this is the problem. BW will replace LI out of BGI. There is no evidence that they can do so in other parts of LI's system.. And I dont know that they plan to add more than this.

The BW milk run does NOT address the needs of the northern Caribbean. In any case BW doesnt have the brand strength to complete against Silver into SJU.
 
fowlr29
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:29 pm

Winair's latest newsletter with flight schedule: https://mailchi.mp/07c93346577b/great-n ... 1CwdzMi_Yo

St. Maarten - Antigua - St Maarten ( 3 days a week) MON FRI SAT
WM 315 SXM-ANU 08.20 – 09.15
WM 316 ANU-SXM 10.55 – 11.55
WM 317 SXM-ANU 14.30 – 15.20
WM 318 ANU-SXM 17.00 – 18.00

St. Maarten - Antigua - Dominica - Antigua - St. Maarten ( 2 twice a week)
THU. WM 315 SXM-ANU 08.20 – 09.15
ANU-DOM 09.35 – 10.35
WM 316 DOM-ANU 10.55 – 11.55
ANU-SXM 12.15 – 13.05
SAT WM 317 SXM-ANU 14.30 – 15.20
ANU-DOM 15.40 – 16.40
WM 318 DOM-ANU 17.00 – 18.00
ANU-SXM 18.20 – 19.10

St. Maarten - Dominica - St. Maarten ( twice a week)
MON WM 901 SXM-DOM 08.30 – 10.00
WM 902 DOM-SXM 10.20 – 11.50
THU WM 907 SXM-DOM 14.30 – 15.20
WM 908 DOM-SXM 17.00 – 18.00

St. Maarten - Saba - St. Maarten ( twice a week)
FRI WM 401 SXM-SAB 08.05 – 08.20
WM 402 SAB-SXM 08.35 – 08.50
WM 441 SXM-SAB 17.10 – 17.25
WM 442 SAB-SXM 17.40 – 17.55

St. Maarten - St. Eustatius - St. Maarten (twice a week)
FRI WM 501 SXM-EUX 08.00 – 08.25
WM 502 EUX-SXM 08.40 – 09.00
WM 541 SXM-EUX 17.00 – 17.25
WM 442 EUX-SXM 17.35 – 17.55

St. Maarten - St. Barth - St. Maarten
5 days a week: MON, TUE, THU, FRI, SAT - 2 to 8 flights/day
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:57 pm

PTP-based Air Antilles will operate these daily services from 8 August using the 48-seat ATR42 as follows.

3S822 BGI-SLU 1020-1100
3S822 SLU-DOM 1130-1210

3S823 DOM-SLU 1520-1600
3S823 SLU-BGI 1630-1710
 
baje427
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:09 pm

JY Embraer 120 has arrived in BGI in this article it seems they will also use the ERJ145 into BGI. Given the conditions they might actually work out of KIN. VS also resumed service to BGI yesterday using a 787. It also appears the Antigua government will be seeking a loan from the CDB to buy two aircraft.


https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/08/01/pri ... caribbean/
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:07 pm

baje427 wrote:
JY Embraer 120 has arrived in BGI in this article it seems they will also use the ERJ145 into BGI. Given the conditions they might actually work out of KIN. VS also resumed service to BGI yesterday using a 787. It also appears the Antigua government will be seeking a loan from the CDB to buy two aircraft.


https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/08/01/pri ... caribbean/


https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/08/02/ant ... t-vincent/

The article on GoAB attempting to borrow to buy the planes. Just reading that, I don’t know how it isn’t obvious to everyone involved that this is a total clusterf***.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:31 pm

Some information on European flights to BGI.

VS is on Saturdays for a while, returning to LHR T2 (as T3 is still closed) the next day at 1755 in order for crew to be rested.

BA is flying from LGW North (as South is still closed) on Tuesdays, Thursday and Saturdays.

From 26 October Eurowings was scheduled to have FRA-BGI on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays with flights operated by SunExpress Deutschland. However Lufthansa has decided to shut down SunExpress Deutschland so it's unclear what will happen.
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:51 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
baje427 wrote:
JY Embraer 120 has arrived in BGI in this article it seems they will also use the ERJ145 into BGI. Given the conditions they might actually work out of KIN. VS also resumed service to BGI yesterday using a 787. It also appears the Antigua government will be seeking a loan from the CDB to buy two aircraft.


https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/08/01/pri ... caribbean/


https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/08/02/ant ... t-vincent/

The article on GoAB attempting to borrow to buy the planes. Just reading that, I don’t know how it isn’t obvious to everyone involved that this is a total clusterf***.



7 planes are being leased. Where are they? I assume that the 3 major shareholders signed as guarantors so GoAB wants to borrow money from CDB to pay back CDB so that these 2 other islands can be released from their guarantees. Even though those islands are no longer LI owners they signed guarantees outside of that arrangement.

But then GoAB had wanted to sell the 3 planes to pay off the debt to reduce LIs indebtedness. Gaston is tying knots around himself.
 
baje427
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:43 am

gunnerman wrote:
Some information on European flights to BGI.

VS is on Saturdays for a while, returning to LHR T2 (as T3 is still closed) the next day at 1755 in order for crew to be rested.

BA is flying from LGW North (as South is still closed) on Tuesdays, Thursday and Saturdays.

From 26 October Eurowings was scheduled to have FRA-BGI on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays with flights operated by SunExpress Deutschland. However Lufthansa has decided to shut down SunExpress Deutschland so it's unclear what will happen.

It's all speculative at this point BGI recorded 20+ Covid cases in two days luckily these have been all imported thus far and are in isolation. I suspect if capacity at the isolation centres become limited airline service will be limited.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:06 pm

Here's a selection of Condor flights this winter, all operated with the Boeing 767-300ER.

From 3 October on Wednesdays and Saturdays
DE2162 1410-1910 FRA-HAV
DE2162 2110-2140 HAV-MBJ

From 30 October on Fridays
DE2224 1000-1515 FRA-GND
DE2224 1620-1710 GND-BGI

From 3 November on Tuesdays
DE2254 1150-1655 FRA-TAB
DE2254 1805-1855 TAB-BGI
 
fowlr29
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:15 pm

InterCaribbean has started operations out of Barbados today. They are also hiring Direct Entry Captains and First Officers.
 
baje427
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:08 pm

fowlr29 wrote:
InterCaribbean has started operations out of Barbados today. They are also hiring Direct Entry Captains and First Officers.


Interesting that the flights are listed as cancelled on flightradar yet the aircraft did in fact depart BGI. I am seeing the Air Antilles Express advertisements nothing locally for Inter Caribbean.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:04 pm

Stepping into the void left by LIAT on the BGI-SLU route, both Air Antilles (using the ATR 42) and Caribbean Airlines (ATR 72) plan to start operating from 8 August and 9 August respectively. Air Antilles will be daily, Caribbean Airlines will be on Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays.

3S822 BGI-SLU 1020-1100
3S824 SLU-BGI 1740-1820

BW208 BGI-SLU 1325-1405
BW209 SLU-BGI 1500-1540
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:08 pm

A lot of expansion from BGI at a time when BGI is tightening up on its COVID-19 restrictions. Most of the islands that now require a negative COVID test prior to arrival are outside of the Winwards where most of the expansion has taken place but does affect places like ANU. With Jamaica and Antigua now both out of the “bubble”, I’m sure that puts a major damper on BW’s KIN-ANU-BGI.

https://268today.com/local-news/barbado ... el-bubble/
 
caribny
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:28 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
A lot of expansion from BGI at a time when BGI is tightening up on its COVID-19 restrictions. Most of the islands that now require a negative COVID test prior to arrival are outside of the Winwards where most of the expansion has taken place but does affect places like ANU. With Jamaica and Antigua now both out of the “bubble”, I’m sure that puts a major damper on BW’s KIN-ANU-BGI.

https://268today.com/local-news/barbado ... el-bubble/


Not really. Not sure that Jamaica has a bubble so anyone going there will have to comply. BGI exempts all OECS except ANU. SKB remains closed though.

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