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New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 1:49 pm

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443793&p=22186433#p22186433
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 6:54 pm

Another month rolls in thanks QF789 for the new thread
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 10:06 pm

To get the discussion going again I thought I post recent news. Looks like airlines and airports around the nation want air travel allowed during level 2 which can boost the regional economy if allowed to happen. Still we have to wait on what the Government will allow under level 2 they haven't decided it yet;

Plea for domestic air travel under Level 2

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/plea-dom ... jMcVbltl2c
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 10:12 pm

Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 10:54 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz

Don’t mind that happening provided it is kept totally hands off so we don’t get the government of the day abusing it (as we see with so many other state owned airlines).
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 6:31 pm

The focus would shift to less profits for shareholders and more on services particularly regional at affordable prices. I guess it will be like Kiwi Rail is a state owned enterprise. New aircraft orders might get cancelled. Current debt liabilities could be refinanced to cheaper government loans of a 1-2% interest rate which would benefit the airline considerably. The CEO and leadership might get replaced by a government appointed board as well.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 9:26 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz

Don’t mind that happening provided it is kept totally hands off so we don’t get the government of the day abusing it (as we see with so many other state owned airlines).


I would totally support returning to government control and it would bring me back as an NZ customer. NZ is a key fundamental facet of our national and international infrastructure. In my opinion this is at odds with the airline's dual role as a revenue generating machine for shareholders.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 pm

The Government has listed 56 freight flights per week it will support. EK will be back flying to both AKL and CHC., China airlines will be doing 2 AKL to TPE services while Air NZ will be doing 37 weekly flights:

The first successful applicants are Air New Zealand, China Airlines, Emirates, Freightways Express, Qantas and Tasman Cargo. We are working with other carriers, and expect to make further announcements shortly.


more info and complete list here:

https://www.transport.govt.nz/air/gover ... on-sector/
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 11:09 pm

I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment. There days might be numbered. One is doing AKL-CHC today ZKOKE might be a freight run. Also the 789 fleet is getting a lot of flying except for 3 from the fleet.
NZD has not flown since the 6 Feb and NZI since 2 Feb they might be related to engine issues again.
NZE has been positioned to SIN for maintenance on 18 April. So a bit of a mixed bag more flying getting planned which is good to see.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 12:45 am

NZ516 wrote:
I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment.


I doubt it will save many jobs as there is already an allocation of cree for the 777 as part of the 'restructure' if you would call it that. If anything with the way things are at the moment there would be more to go, across the board
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 12:58 am

Gasman wrote:
I would totally support returning to government control and it would bring me back as an NZ customer. NZ is a key fundamental facet of our national and international infrastructure. In my opinion this is at odds with the airline's dual role as a revenue generating machine for shareholders.

Sorry, but can't resist a dig: so all the screeds of stuff written about how terrible NZ is compared with QF and others would be trumped by returning it to public control? That's almost akin to living in Russia and choosing Aeroflot over a western carrier. ;)
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TIJfan
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 1:22 am

ok this might sound a bit silly but here it goes.

Have been reading a lot about VA & how it might be restarting but in a smaller form in 3 or 4 months.

QF & JQ won't be able to handle pent up demand. Alliance can provide a few services with spare Fokkers, but surely NZ should look at sending some aircraft to Australia to operate domestic services there.

They could send a few aircraft to each of BNE, SYD & MEL & then fill in & make some money until the new VA gets up & running.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 2:58 am

ZKSUJ wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment.


I doubt it will save many jobs as there is already an allocation of cree for the 777 as part of the 'restructure' if you would call it that. If anything with the way things are at the moment there would be more to go, across the board


I would expect by the end of 2021, and fleet of:
- 789s
- A320/321
- ATR 72-600S

Maybe the owned 77W might be spared, if an option comes out to convert then to 777-300ER-BCF's
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 3:31 am

TIJfan wrote:
ok this might sound a bit silly but here it goes.

Have been reading a lot about VA & how it might be restarting but in a smaller form in 3 or 4 months.

QF & JQ won't be able to handle pent up demand. Alliance can provide a few services with spare Fokkers, but surely NZ should look at sending some aircraft to Australia to operate domestic services there.

They could send a few aircraft to each of BNE, SYD & MEL & then fill in & make some money until the new VA gets up & running.

I think you're drastically over-estimating "pent-up demand". Right now there's virtually zero demand, and that's going to increase only very slowly as people gain confidence that the virus has been eliminated. I've no doubt that QF and JQ could handle all the demand that's possibly foreseeable in the next twelve months.
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 3:39 am

zkncj wrote:
I would expect by the end of 2021, and fleet of:
- 789s
- A320/321
- ATR 72-600S

Maybe the owned 77W might be spared, if an option comes out to convert then to 777-300ER-BCF's

Not sure why everyone is so keen to see the back of the Q300s. Seems logical to me that if there is a requirement to maintain services to existing domestic destinations in exchange for the $900m loan facility, then the Q300s do have a niche. Yes, they're getting a little old (but not THAT old), I suggest that a better solution to dropping routes would be to acquire some ATR-42-600s to complement the '72s. Remember, it's only a few years ago since some of the current domestic network was served with 19-seaters. Unless there's a desire to neuter the domestic network, then I'd go for ATR-42s IF the Q300s need replacement. Besides, the taxpayer, having given over $900m, is not going to jump for joy if the network gets cut, As a majority 52% shareholder the government would get 100% blame if that were to occur, with almost certain electoral consequences.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 4:50 am

DavidByrne wrote:
TIJfan wrote:
ok this might sound a bit silly but here it goes.

Have been reading a lot about VA & how it might be restarting but in a smaller form in 3 or 4 months.

QF & JQ won't be able to handle pent up demand. Alliance can provide a few services with spare Fokkers, but surely NZ should look at sending some aircraft to Australia to operate domestic services there.

They could send a few aircraft to each of BNE, SYD & MEL & then fill in & make some money until the new VA gets up & running.

I think you're drastically over-estimating "pent-up demand". Right now there's virtually zero demand, and that's going to increase only very slowly as people gain confidence that the virus has been eliminated. I've no doubt that QF and JQ could handle all the demand that's possibly foreseeable in the next twelve months.


I’m not sure it would make sense to temporarily set up base for OZ domestic? There would be loopholes to get through which might make it more complex than it needs to be?

After 9/11 and AN going under I believe some International carriers that had domestic tags were allowed to fly domestic pax on those sectors, UA had a 744 SYD-MEL vv which I’m pretty sure for a few months was allowed to pick up pax.

QF will have plenty of international aircraft A380s, 744s probably not being used at all for some time if ever and spare A330s they can use if need be on domestic.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 4:55 am

zkncj wrote:
ZKSUJ wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment.


I doubt it will save many jobs as there is already an allocation of cree for the 777 as part of the 'restructure' if you would call it that. If anything with the way things are at the moment there would be more to go, across the board


I would expect by the end of 2021, and fleet of:
- 789s
- A320/321
- ATR 72-600S

Maybe the owned 77W might be spared, if an option comes out to convert then to 777-300ER-BCF's


A 777-300ER BCF program was launched last year, not that I expect NZ to Use it personally, by the time they could get aircraft converted it would be sometime in which hopefully there might be some sort of normal operations resuming.

https://www.flightglobal.com/mro/gecas- ... 17.article
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 7:06 am

ZKSUJ wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment.


I doubt it will save many jobs as there is already an allocation of cree for the 777 as part of the 'restructure' if you would call it that. If anything with the way things are at the moment there would be more to go, across the board


Surely with this extra cargo flights just announced their will be more flying hours to give to the pilots than before. Plus shouldn't be more cuts "across the board" as that will imply that some of the 787 pilots will not be needed as well.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 7:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
ZKSUJ wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
I have noticed the NZ 777-300 fleet has been busy lately with cargo and evac flying this may help save pilot jobs down the line. However the 777-200 fleet is the opposite at the moment.


I doubt it will save many jobs as there is already an allocation of cree for the 777 as part of the 'restructure' if you would call it that. If anything with the way things are at the moment there would be more to go, across the board


Surely with this extra cargo flights just announced their will be more flying hours to give to the pilots than before. Plus shouldn't be more cuts "across the board" as that will imply that some of the 787 pilots will not be needed as well.


NZ516, I think there is. Misunderstanding. The numbers for all crew (pilots, cabin etc) are for the size of the airline not now but in 12-18 months time. With the amount of flying at the moment you will find that the jobs savings will be zero as they are already majorly overcrewed for this period.

Also the pilots in particular are not fleet specific in the sense that it is based on last on first off for the whole jet fleet, not necessarily per fleet as the cabin crew are.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 8:22 pm

Redundancy in the Pilot ranks is not type specific but based on seniority. Ineffect last on first off. Some of the more senior crew approaching retirement may opt to lezve a little earlier than planned. The impact will be down training. You will see surplus 777 crews re training onto the 787 and this in turn means the more junior 787 crew will find themselves on the A320 fleet. Equally some Captains will revert back to roles as F/O's
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:14 pm

Thanks for the explanation GW54 and ZKSUJ it fills in the gaps of my understanding and sorry for the confusion.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:56 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation GW54 and ZKSUJ it fills in the gaps of my understanding and sorry for the confusion.


Nothing to be sorry about bro, thats what a forum like this is for :smile:

Any news on sounds air and air chats? Apart from 'they are struggling'?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 11:37 pm

ZKSUJ wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation GW54 and ZKSUJ it fills in the gaps of my understanding and sorry for the confusion.


Nothing to be sorry about bro, thats what a forum like this is for :smile:

Any news on sounds air and air chats? Apart from 'they are struggling'?

Air Chathams are operating to the Chatham Islands (mostly freight but I am guessing if there are any essential travellers to the islands that's how they'll be going), plus a number of freight charters around the country.

V/F
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tullamarine
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 1:51 am

DavidByrne wrote:
TIJfan wrote:
ok this might sound a bit silly but here it goes.

Have been reading a lot about VA & how it might be restarting but in a smaller form in 3 or 4 months.

QF & JQ won't be able to handle pent up demand. Alliance can provide a few services with spare Fokkers, but surely NZ should look at sending some aircraft to Australia to operate domestic services there.

They could send a few aircraft to each of BNE, SYD & MEL & then fill in & make some money until the new VA gets up & running.

I think you're drastically over-estimating "pent-up demand". Right now there's virtually zero demand, and that's going to increase only very slowly as people gain confidence that the virus has been eliminated. I've no doubt that QF and JQ could handle all the demand that's possibly foreseeable in the next twelve months.

NZ would be foolish to even think about setting up an Australian domestic operation. Whilst they are already legally entitled to operate domestic services on this side of the ditch, setting up a new operation and the losses that would come with it seems ludicrous given the current issues NZ is having with its core busimess. Currently there is virtually zero demand for domestic services in Australia and any recovery will be glacially slow.; no company will be forcing employees to travel if they have to wear masks and confront flight attendants in hazard suits.

By the time domestic demand recovers to even 50% of what it was, it is likely VA2 will be operational given the administrators believe the new owners will be in place by the end of June. Yes, VA will be smaller and it is likely QF domestic will be smaller also. Even then, it is unlikely they will be flying too many sold-out flights.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:04 am

I was reading April thread and people were talking about NZ not coming back to EZE and what would happened in the future. Well, in my opinion EZE should come back, but with roughly 3 flights per week, also they can consider SCL as an other option. Codesharing with AR in EZE is not much better as going alone to SCL (especially now that LA left Oneworld and its monopoly). GRU should be in the cards as well, but there is not too much incentive besides being an 20 million inhabitants in the city and the financial center of South America but not too much links with NZ/AUS. On the other hand., if I were NZ I would consider two key destinations to add: BOG or PTY, codesharing with Avianca or Copa respectively, would give them access to the northern part of South America, Caribbean and Central America. Furthermore, NZ will be opening an Embassy in BOG next year, so it may be interest in both parts. I think that a route AKL-BOG-CTG-AKL (as KLM does to avoid hot and high issues) 3 flights per week should work fairly well. Colombia has 50 million population and Bogota is with Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires the most populated area in southern hemisphere. Also, NZ going to BOG could be a very interesting way to reach MEX (without transiting in USA or USA visas issues for mexicans or other nationalities).
 
Kaiarahi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:46 am

FWIW, N. American airline analysts are predicting that business travel will never recover. Many corporations were moving toward virtual teams and meetings before COVID and have begun creating increasingly sophisticated networks since COVID. Same with government - Canada has discovered that government functions almost as effectively with most employees working from home (there are bandwidth issues, but 5G will address many of them). The Government of Canada is realizing that it can get rid of millions of square feet of office space and save millions of dollars on travel for in-person meetings. Silicon Valley is almost empty. This will require a paradigm shift in aircraft layout and seat pricing. Much travel in the future may be leisure based, and subject to individual countries' medical entry requirements, at least until there's a vaccine.
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xiaotung
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 5:43 am

Gbass21 wrote:
I was reading April thread and people were talking about NZ not coming back to EZE and what would happened in the future. Well, in my opinion EZE should come back, but with roughly 3 flights per week, also they can consider SCL as an other option. Codesharing with AR in EZE is not much better as going alone to SCL (especially now that LA left Oneworld and its monopoly). GRU should be in the cards as well, but there is not too much incentive besides being an 20 million inhabitants in the city and the financial center of South America but not too much links with NZ/AUS. On the other hand., if I were NZ I would consider two key destinations to add: BOG or PTY, codesharing with Avianca or Copa respectively, would give them access to the northern part of South America, Caribbean and Central America. Furthermore, NZ will be opening an Embassy in BOG next year, so it may be interest in both parts. I think that a route AKL-BOG-CTG-AKL (as KLM does to avoid hot and high issues) 3 flights per week should work fairly well. Colombia has 50 million population and Bogota is with Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires the most populated area in southern hemisphere. Also, NZ going to BOG could be a very interesting way to reach MEX (without transiting in USA or USA visas issues for mexicans or other nationalities).


I do agree as a destination, eventually NZ will go back but COVID-19 has set back travel demand at least a few years. I imagine South America would now sit near the bottom of the list. And who's to say restarting EZE will be more successful than hypothetically restarting SYD-LAX in the short to medium term, especially now with UA de-hubbing LAX and VA may not go back to LAX at all. If NZ has a top 10 long haul list with the most potential under current condition, SYD-LAX might just make it and EZE won't.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 6:46 am

NZ516 wrote:
Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz


This quote annoys me

Despite being majority Government owned, Air New Zealand is run commercially and has returned handsome dividends to the Crown in the past. But this has also caused it to run into criticism that it neglects its role as a transport utility, linking regional communities with the rest of the country.

It has struggled, like many airlines, to make some regional routes profitable. In 2018, the company endured a dust-up with NZ First MP Shane Jones after it stopped servicing Paraparaumu airport.


If servicing these regional centers is so important for the govt they should be tendered as PSO's with subsidies given to which ever airline wins the contract.

If Peters really wants to take aviation assets back under public control he should start with AIAL and finish with the govt owning all the airport in NZ. Air NZ is a well managed organisation AIAL isn't.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 7:40 am

South America generally looks like a pretty poor bet for the medium term. A combination of the virus, political instability (esp in the case of Brazil) and tanking economies to me suggests that NZ is better off deploying its resources elsewhere. I'm personally very sad about this but it is pretty well inevitable IMO. Maybe in five years time...
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Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm

Looking to expand the bubble, I’m sure every region in Australia/NZ will be be jumping on the media bandwagon saying they’re ready for Trans Tasman flights right now!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-hobart
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 9:32 pm

Whoopeecock wrote:
Looking to expand the bubble, I’m sure every region in Australia/NZ will be be jumping on the media bandwagon saying they’re ready for Trans Tasman flights right now!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-hobart


I saw that and thought it is really strange, in times where we are at zero flights and will have to build the big connections (SYD, MEL, BNE, maybe ADL, OOL) first again. But maybe they think that if we can't travel outside the bubble for a longer period, there will be increasing demand for trans-bubble-travel? I believe it when I see it - and fly it, because I love Tazzie ;-)
On ABC Radio Canberra yesterday they were also calling for a Canberra non-stop, but that was not really all that serious. A bit of banter...
 
nascarnut
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Maybe is Transtasman bubble occurs NZ may consider additional cities at low frequency ie
AKL - ADL 3 x week with 320/321
AKL - BNE 3 x week with 789 supplemented by cargo flights
AKL - HBA 2 x week with 320
AKL - MEL 3 x week with 789 supplemented by cargo flights
AKL - SYD 4 x week with 789 supplemented by Cargo flights
AKL - PER 2 x per week with 789
AKL - OOL 3 x per week with 320/321
AKL - CBR 2 per week with 320
AKL - CFS 2 per week with 320
WLG - SYD/BNE/MEL 2 per week each with 320
CHC - SYD/BNE/MEL 2 per week each with 320
ZQN during winter months could definitely use some Australian visitors. ZQN May become a seasonal city
By adding extra cities allows more visitors without requiring interstate flying.
WLG/CHC could be done with a single 320NEO operating CHC/MEL/WLG/MEL/CHC in a day or CHC/SYD/WLG/BNE/CHC or similar routings.
By offering extra cities it potentially reduces people moving between regions as much.
NZ/QF need to think outside of the norm in hopes to stimulate travel.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 10:24 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation GW54 and ZKSUJ it fills in the gaps of my understanding and sorry for the confusion.

Cheers. Hope the explanation helped. The final picture re redundancies may chznge as the situation is changing daily. With all the new Cargo requirements and the prospect of a TransTasman bubble not to far away the numbers may need to be revisted.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:26 am

GW54 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation GW54 and ZKSUJ it fills in the gaps of my understanding and sorry for the confusion.

Cheers. Hope the explanation helped. The final picture re redundancies may chznge as the situation is changing daily. With all the new Cargo requirements and the prospect of a TransTasman bubble not to far away the numbers may need to be revisted.


Certainly changing daily alright. Yes I hope this is the case and could save a few more jobs and benefit the regions as well.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:39 am

Kiwirob wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz


This quote annoys me

Despite being majority Government owned, Air New Zealand is run commercially and has returned handsome dividends to the Crown in the past. But this has also caused it to run into criticism that it neglects its role as a transport utility, linking regional communities with the rest of the country.

It has struggled, like many airlines, to make some regional routes profitable. In 2018, the company endured a dust-up with NZ First MP Shane Jones after it stopped servicing Paraparaumu airport.


If servicing these regional centers is so important for the govt they should be tendered as PSO's with subsidies given to which ever airline wins the contract.

If Peters really wants to take aviation assets back under public control he should start with AIAL and finish with the govt owning all the airport in NZ. Air NZ is a well managed organisation AIAL isn't.


Going forward I agree if the Government wants Air NZ to keep flying to Hokitika, Timaru etc within a very low demand environment that we are in now. They may have to underwrite the services say if less than 20 seats are booked per flight then the Government will top up the balance. This number is just an example they might have to be higher to cover all costs etc.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:18 am

It's time to make trans-Tasman travel domestic

$204. That’s how much you pay in taxes and levies on a return flight from Auckland to Sydney. So, if you’ve bought a special $399 return flight to Sydney, more than 50 per cent of that is taxes.

The fee is made up of $132.40 in passenger movement charges, $20.11 for an international border clearance levy and $51.30 for a security levy. In the golden age of travel, Government agencies and airports milked airlines passengers. Those days are over.

As we work towards a trans-Tasman bubble - with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today taking part in a Cabinet meeting with Australian ministers by video link - the Government needs to investigate slashing those taxes.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-tra ... l-domestic

These taxes are horrendous they will have to be reduced or the tourism industry will never start to recover.
 
ZKNCI
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:27 am

Another unusual visitor for Auckland - French Air Force A400M. Arrived Wednesday morning, departs later today.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300006256/au-revoir-french-air-force-planes-flying-visit-to-auckland
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 4:34 am

NZ516 wrote:
It's time to make trans-Tasman travel domestic

$204. That’s how much you pay in taxes and levies on a return flight from Auckland to Sydney. So, if you’ve bought a special $399 return flight to Sydney, more than 50 per cent of that is taxes.

The fee is made up of $132.40 in passenger movement charges, $20.11 for an international border clearance levy and $51.30 for a security levy. In the golden age of travel, Government agencies and airports milked airlines passengers. Those days are over.

As we work towards a trans-Tasman bubble - with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today taking part in a Cabinet meeting with Australian ministers by video link - the Government needs to investigate slashing those taxes.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-tra ... l-domestic

These taxes are horrendous they will have to be reduced or the tourism industry will never start to recover.


Is the only way that travel is going to recover in the short-term, the fact if can cost more in taxes for an weekend In Australia than the airfare.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:05 am

NZ516 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Another interesting topic. Winston Peters would like the Government to take back control of Air NZ. I'm not sure if the Labour party will agree to this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364 ... for-air-nz


This quote annoys me

Despite being majority Government owned, Air New Zealand is run commercially and has returned handsome dividends to the Crown in the past. But this has also caused it to run into criticism that it neglects its role as a transport utility, linking regional communities with the rest of the country.

It has struggled, like many airlines, to make some regional routes profitable. In 2018, the company endured a dust-up with NZ First MP Shane Jones after it stopped servicing Paraparaumu airport.


If servicing these regional centers is so important for the govt they should be tendered as PSO's with subsidies given to which ever airline wins the contract.

If Peters really wants to take aviation assets back under public control he should start with AIAL and finish with the govt owning all the airport in NZ. Air NZ is a well managed organisation AIAL isn't.


Going forward I agree if the Government wants Air NZ to keep flying to Hokitika, Timaru etc within a very low demand environment that we are in now. They may have to underwrite the services say if less than 20 seats are booked per flight then the Government will top up the balance. This number is just an example they might have to be higher to cover all costs etc.


This is where airlines like Sounds Air & Chathams come in. Smaller aircraft, less seats and in theory less operating costs.
 
Toenga
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:25 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
It's time to make trans-Tasman travel domestic

$204. That’s how much you pay in taxes and levies on a return flight from Auckland to Sydney. So, if you’ve bought a special $399 return flight to Sydney, more than 50 per cent of that is taxes.

The fee is made up of $132.40 in passenger movement charges, $20.11 for an international border clearance levy and $51.30 for a security levy. In the golden age of travel, Government agencies and airports milked airlines passengers. Those days are over.

As we work towards a trans-Tasman bubble - with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today taking part in a Cabinet meeting with Australian ministers by video link - the Government needs to investigate slashing those taxes.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-tra ... l-domestic

These taxes are horrendous they will have to be reduced or the tourism industry will never start to recover.


Is the only way that travel is going to recover in the short-term, the fact if can cost more in taxes for an weekend In Australia than the airfare.


The airport operators need to balance a need to cover their costs, a desire to make a profit, and the public's willingness to fly at the price offered.
Governments should continue to recover the costs of the very necessary border checks, which let's face it are not going to diminish. I am sure there are much more efficient ways of stimulating their post Covid economies, then by subsidising airlines, and airports, above contributing to the costs of maintaining essential air services.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:50 am

Toenga wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
It's time to make trans-Tasman travel domestic



https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/kiwi-tra ... l-domestic

These taxes are horrendous they will have to be reduced or the tourism industry will never start to recover.


Is the only way that travel is going to recover in the short-term, the fact if can cost more in taxes for an weekend In Australia than the airfare.


The airport operators need to balance a need to cover their costs, a desire to make a profit, and the public's willingness to fly at the price offered.
Governments should continue to recover the costs of the very necessary border checks, which let's face it are not going to diminish. I am sure there are much more efficient ways of stimulating their post Covid economies, then by subsidising airlines, and airports, above contributing to the costs of maintaining essential air services.


The general public shouldn’t have to pay for construction work that has been done under an airports own ego for example.

The perspective of what an Airport should be in Australia and New Zealand at moment. Is apart of the issue, eg we don’t need an shopping mall that takes you 20minutes to snake around duty free stores.

I agree reasonable cost should be covered, but that should be to an maximum amount.

Just think if your local Westfield charged you $80 every time you want to visit the mall, would you still go there?
 
LYuen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:58 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 11:38 pm

Interesting to see AR1081 (PVG-AKL) and LA1201 (AKL-PVG) are both flying at the moment
The Asia-South America via AKL business plan long proposed by Air New Zealand is actually being executed because of COVID-19.
(I know they are most likely to be cargo flights, but still interesting to see they picked AKL as their refuelling spot)
 
GW54
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 1:01 am

Having had years in the industry it may be time to revisut the past. My first involvment in the industry was with NAC and then Air NZ but always in the domestic network. NAC had a system that worked extremely well especially for the F-27 operation but also in the later days of the Viscount operation. Rather than the out and back that is used today in the past it was a multi sector operation which spread the risk by the one aircraft operating to multiple destinations. Examples were WLG-WAG-TOU-AKL and return. WLG-WAG-WHK-AKL, WLG-PMR-AKL,WLG-NPE-GIS-AKL and WLG-WSZ-HKK-CHC. All these flights also operated in reverse. These flights offered great conndctions between regional centres and gzve regions connections into AKL,WLG and CHC. These flights only stopped with cesation of F-27 operations. The F-27 was phased out not based on route economics but the costs of operation were impacted more by various employment agreements. Maybe time to look in the past and see what did work and could work going forward.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 1:39 am

The government has announced that when Alert Level 2 comes in, travel between regions will be permitted. This is wonderful news for New Zealand’s airlines, and the tourism industry as a whole. It won’t mean things are back to normal, but it will be a most welcome step in that direction.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ516
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 3:21 am

That is great news we can all book our domestic holidays to Queenstown or where ever we like now.
I wonder how long till we see a new schedule is released.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:31 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
The government has announced that when Alert Level 2 comes in, travel between regions will be permitted. This is wonderful news for New Zealand’s airlines, and the tourism industry as a whole. It won’t mean things are back to normal, but it will be a most welcome step in that direction.

V/F


Is the TAB running an bet on if the NZ website will crash at 1:30pm next Monday afternoon yet :D

If we goto Level 2 next week, I'm expecting NZ is going to have an very busy weekend, hopefully might be an chance to an grab an 787 between AKL-WLG/CHC.

Seems to be allot of people planning an trip away already.....
 
zkncj
Posts: 3892
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:43 am

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12330410

NZ’s pilots have come to agreement this afternoon to take an 30% pay cut for the next 12months to save all but 300 jobs.

Pretty amazing to see them come together and agree on the good of each other.
 
LYuen
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:58 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 8:23 am

zkncj wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
The government has announced that when Alert Level 2 comes in, travel between regions will be permitted. This is wonderful news for New Zealand’s airlines, and the tourism industry as a whole. It won’t mean things are back to normal, but it will be a most welcome step in that direction.

V/F


Is the TAB running an bet on if the NZ website will crash at 1:30pm next Monday afternoon yet :D

If we goto Level 2 next week, I'm expecting NZ is going to have an very busy weekend, hopefully might be an chance to an grab an 787 between AKL-WLG/CHC.

Seems to be allot of people planning an trip away already.....

And I still haven't received the credits for the bookings I cancelled :lol:
Do we only get those credit after the date of the original booking?
 
User avatar
hic787
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:29 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 9:05 am

LYuen wrote:
zkncj wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
The government has announced that when Alert Level 2 comes in, travel between regions will be permitted. This is wonderful news for New Zealand’s airlines, and the tourism industry as a whole. It won’t mean things are back to normal, but it will be a most welcome step in that direction.

V/F


Is the TAB running an bet on if the NZ website will crash at 1:30pm next Monday afternoon yet :D

If we goto Level 2 next week, I'm expecting NZ is going to have an very busy weekend, hopefully might be an chance to an grab an 787 between AKL-WLG/CHC.

Seems to be allot of people planning an trip away already.....

And I still haven't received the credits for the bookings I cancelled :lol:
Do we only get those credit after the date of the original booking?


I believe they're still working on the online implementation of bookings using these credits. Should be rolled out very soon in the likelihood of going into level 2 next week or the week after.
 
bevan7
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:25 pm

I see in this article https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/121 ... n-atlantic there is a picture with the caption "Virgin Atlantic 747 -400 Jumbo Jets at Auckland Airport in 2011". Is this true? If so does anybody know what they were doing there? I'm guessing rugby world cup but I'm not sure.

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