One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

Flynn is a criminal who admitted to his crimes. The only reason this is happening is because the Attorney General is a corrupt lackey doing the bidding of a corrupt president. The rule of law doesn't matter in this country if you know the right people.

This is just the Trump Swamp machine working for Putin.
Barr has gone back and destroyed American institutions.

As we previously noted in many articles . Flynn plead guilty and accepted the charges.

As an aside, will the FBI and police be letting go of every suspect that ever got caught with a crime while under investigation?

I am not a fan of this administration but it became obvious the past couple of weeks that Flynn was setup by the FBI. The FBI wanted him to lie to the FBI so that they could nab him on something. This case should have been dropped.

Kudos to Catherine Herridge for her excellent reporting on this. She does not get nearly the credit she deserves, but she is an excellent journalist and has done amazing reporting on this and other issues. Her reporting on this is the reason Flynn is a free man (and rightly so)

This also shows that there are bigger issues at the FBI than previously reported, and Comey is going to have a lot of tough questions to answer going forward.

All of this could have been avoided had the Trump campaign shown even a single iota of patriotism, honesty, or common sense...

Moose135 wrote:

Flynn is a criminal who admitted to his crimes. The only reason this is happening is because the Attorney General is a corrupt lackey doing the bidding of a corrupt president. The rule of law doesn't matter in this country if you know the right people.

Nothing new - Barr is the same creep who engineered freedom for everyone in the 40 WH guilty of Iran-Contra.

Yeah, we wouldn’t want FBI documents that have been finally released get in the way of good framing by Comey and crew.

Atty. Van Grack, one of Mueller’s men, has filed for his withdrawal from the case. State’s witness, perhaps? Plea deal?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Atty. Van Grack, one of Mueller’s men, has filed for his withdrawal from the case. State’s witness, perhaps? Plea deal?

No, they will do that when they strongly object to the actions being taken. The same thing happened when DOJ leadership reduced the sentencing recommendation in the Roger Stone case. They withdrew from the case - one resigned completely - in protest.

Moose135 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Atty. Van Grack, one of Mueller’s men, has filed for his withdrawal from the case. State’s witness, perhaps? Plea deal?

No, they will do that when they strongly object to the actions being taken. The same thing happened when DOJ leadership reduced the sentencing recommendation in the Roger Stone case. They withdrew from the case - one resigned completely - in protest.

Maybe being caught flagrantly lying to the court (attesting in a sworn statement last year that you have submitted all relevant Brady information only to have a massive trove of exculpatory documents drop last week) had something to do with it? Hard to prosecute a case when you are going to be disbarred.

In an interesting coincidence, the Congressional Probes are being released today as well. I wonder if Trump and Barr re trying to exhortation Flynn before getting buried by the aftermath of the GOP incompetence on the Russia hearings.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics ... index.html

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

But seriously. in your calls for retribution, it is apparent you are not calling for justice or equality. You are calling for revenge where there is none. Flynn is being let off to fulfill Barr's agenda to forgive Trump for asking for Russia to interfere in American Elections.

An excellent and fair-minded take on what’s really going on here:

The immediate predicate of the government’s move to dismiss the charges today was the release in April of FBI notes about its interviews with Flynn. Among the notes, an unidentified FBI employee wrote, “What is our goal? Truth/admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?” The notes are the latest example of dubious FBI behavior. As a recent Justice Department inspector-general report found, the FBI has repeatedly abused rules for obtaining warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. As I have written repeatedly during the Trump administration, the FBI’s long record of abuse means that its statements cannot be taken at face value; the bureau will look out for its own interests, and break the rules to do so if it must. (There is no evidence, contra Trump’s claims, that Flynn was politically targeted by the Obama administration.)

The FBI notes set off a firestorm in conservative media, which argued that Flynn had been unfairly targeted by the bureau. The putative concern over unfair prosecutions rings false for Trump and his allies, who have demanded iron-fisted “law and order” in cases that don’t involve the president’s cronies. Moreover, many legal experts believed that the notes were insufficient to convince Judge Emmet Sullivan that Flynn was entrapped.

But as it happened, the notes didn’t have to convince Sullivan, because the Department of Justice withdrew the charges before the judge had to reach a conclusion. (Sullivan could still reject the DOJ’s motion. The long-running prosecutor on the case abruptly withdrew from it today, a likely sign of disagreement, and The New York Times reports that the motion stunned prosecutors in the U.S. attorney’s office.) Flynn’s defenders argued that the FBI was out to get him, and if the FBI is out to get you, it will find a way. But there’s a corollary: If Attorney General William Barr’s Justice Department wants to let you off, it will find a way too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... e-atlantic

What a tangled web we weave when he practice...

casinterest wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

But seriously. in your calls for retribution, it is apparent you are not calling for justice or equality. You are calling for revenge where there is none. Flynn is being let off to fulfill Barr's agenda to forgive Trump for asking for Russia to interfere in American Elections.

The justice system is just revenge by other means. What was done to Flynn was inexcusable, and he has every right to fight back if he feels aggrieved. Also, Sidney Powell, his lawyer, should get a Presidential Medal of Freedom - what a woman that is, truly teaches you the meaning of not taking no for an answer, and fighting the FBI and Covington tooth and nail to surface this information. If I have a daughter, I want her to look up to Sidney Powell as an example, doing by herself what the all-powerful Covington law firm couldn't (or wouldn't).

One thing to keep in mind is that the FBI still looks at J. Edgar Hoover as an example (have his name on the side of their headquarters and everything). Wihen those are your references, is there any wonder why they would consider this to be acceptable behavior?

Pyrex wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

But seriously. in your calls for retribution, it is apparent you are not calling for justice or equality. You are calling for revenge where there is none. Flynn is being let off to fulfill Barr's agenda to forgive Trump for asking for Russia to interfere in American Elections.

The justice system is just revenge by other means. What was done to Flynn was inexcusable, and he has every right to fight back if he feels aggrieved. Also, Sidney Powell, his lawyer, should get a Presidential Medal of Freedom - what a woman that is, truly teaches you the meaning of not taking no for an answer, and fighting the FBI and Covington tooth and nail to surface this information. If I have a daughter, I want her to look up to Sidney Powell as an example, doing by herself what the all-powerful Covington law firm couldn't (or wouldn't).

One thing to keep in mind is that the FBI still looks at J. Edgar Hoover as an example (have his name on the side of their headquarters and everything). Wihen those are your references, is there any wonder why they would consider this to be acceptable behavior?

Nearly all large institutions have institutional problems with believing their own BS and protecting their own. Does the FBI’s conduct absolve Flynn from selling out his country and lobbying for Turkey without proper registry as a foreign agent...then *accepting* a job like WH NSA? No way.

Aaron747 wrote:

An excellent and fair-minded take on what’s really going on here:

The immediate predicate of the government’s move to dismiss the charges today was the release in April of FBI notes about its interviews with Flynn. Among the notes, an unidentified FBI employee wrote, “What is our goal? Truth/admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?” The notes are the latest example of dubious FBI behavior. As a recent Justice Department inspector-general report found, the FBI has repeatedly abused rules for obtaining warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. As I have written repeatedly during the Trump administration, the FBI’s long record of abuse means that its statements cannot be taken at face value; the bureau will look out for its own interests, and break the rules to do so if it must. (There is no evidence, contra Trump’s claims, that Flynn was politically targeted by the Obama administration.)

The FBI notes set off a firestorm in conservative media, which argued that Flynn had been unfairly targeted by the bureau. The putative concern over unfair prosecutions rings false for Trump and his allies, who have demanded iron-fisted “law and order” in cases that don’t involve the president’s cronies. Moreover, many legal experts believed that the notes were insufficient to convince Judge Emmet Sullivan that Flynn was entrapped.

But as it happened, the notes didn’t have to convince Sullivan, because the Department of Justice withdrew the charges before the judge had to reach a conclusion. (Sullivan could still reject the DOJ’s motion. The long-running prosecutor on the case abruptly withdrew from it today, a likely sign of disagreement, and The New York Times reports that the motion stunned prosecutors in the U.S. attorney’s office.) Flynn’s defenders argued that the FBI was out to get him, and if the FBI is out to get you, it will find a way. But there’s a corollary: If Attorney General William Barr’s Justice Department wants to let you off, it will find a way too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... e-atlantic

The firestorm in conservative media has been going on for a long time, last week was just the culmination of it. The fact that non-conservative media had up until this point refused to pick up on other egregious government misconduct that has transpired over the last few months (e g., the refusal to hand over the original 302s, written evidence that people who were not present in the interview were editing the interview notes to make Flynn look guilty, the shenanigans with the handwritten notes of the interview and who wrote what, etc.) is really an inducement on them. But since as a country we are so polarized, many sectors of the media were more than willing to carry water for the FBI, defending FBI behavior against a Trump associate they would not tolerate even against the most unsympathetic of criminals (and remember, civil rights were not invented to protect sympathetic defendents...).

Pyrex wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

But seriously. in your calls for retribution, it is apparent you are not calling for justice or equality. You are calling for revenge where there is none. Flynn is being let off to fulfill Barr's agenda to forgive Trump for asking for Russia to interfere in American Elections.

The justice system is just revenge by other means. What was done to Flynn was inexcusable, and he has every right to fight back if he feels aggrieved. Also, Sidney Powell, his lawyer, should get a Presidential Medal of Freedom - what a woman that is, truly teaches you the meaning of not taking no for an answer, and fighting the FBI and Covington tooth and nail to surface this information. If I have a daughter, I want her to look up to Sidney Powell as an example, doing by herself what the all-powerful Covington law firm couldn't (or wouldn't).

One thing to keep in mind is that the FBI still looks at J. Edgar Hoover as an example (have his name on the side of their headquarters and everything). Wihen those are your references, is there any wonder why they would consider this to be acceptable behavior?

Then why did he plead guilty ? We have the FBI to handle federal crimes. Are we making it ok for Federal crimes now? Is that how Trump is going to operate?

There was no way Comey, Clapper, Brennan, et al. could proceed with their plans to get Trump removed from the White House while Flynn was the National Security Advisor. They knew they couldn’t get much past him, so they had to create circumstances that would give Trump no choice but to let Flynn resign.

The House will be hard-pressed to show that the documents released so far, with more to come, are not legitimate evidence of bad actors in the FBI and CIA having framed Flynn. They also did a job on his son. The only reason he plead guilty was in exchange for Comey’s promise to not prosecute his son if he did so.

The chickens are coming home to roost. It will be very interesting to see how these swamp creatures defend their actions. If the DoJ manages to get DC area grand juries to indict, their only way out will be for a Dem win in November, with Biden or whomever putting party above justice.

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

An excellent and fair-minded take on what’s really going on here:

The immediate predicate of the government’s move to dismiss the charges today was the release in April of FBI notes about its interviews with Flynn. Among the notes, an unidentified FBI employee wrote, “What is our goal? Truth/admission or to get him to lie, so we can prosecute him or get him fired?” The notes are the latest example of dubious FBI behavior. As a recent Justice Department inspector-general report found, the FBI has repeatedly abused rules for obtaining warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. As I have written repeatedly during the Trump administration, the FBI’s long record of abuse means that its statements cannot be taken at face value; the bureau will look out for its own interests, and break the rules to do so if it must. (There is no evidence, contra Trump’s claims, that Flynn was politically targeted by the Obama administration.)

The FBI notes set off a firestorm in conservative media, which argued that Flynn had been unfairly targeted by the bureau. The putative concern over unfair prosecutions rings false for Trump and his allies, who have demanded iron-fisted “law and order” in cases that don’t involve the president’s cronies. Moreover, many legal experts believed that the notes were insufficient to convince Judge Emmet Sullivan that Flynn was entrapped.

But as it happened, the notes didn’t have to convince Sullivan, because the Department of Justice withdrew the charges before the judge had to reach a conclusion. (Sullivan could still reject the DOJ’s motion. The long-running prosecutor on the case abruptly withdrew from it today, a likely sign of disagreement, and The New York Times reports that the motion stunned prosecutors in the U.S. attorney’s office.) Flynn’s defenders argued that the FBI was out to get him, and if the FBI is out to get you, it will find a way. But there’s a corollary: If Attorney General William Barr’s Justice Department wants to let you off, it will find a way too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... e-atlantic

The firestorm in conservative media has been going on for a long time, last week was just the culmination of it. The fact that non-conservative media had up until this point refused to pick up on other egregious government misconduct that has transpired over the last few months (e g., the refusal to hand over the original 302s, written evidence that people who were not present in the interview were editing the interview notes to make Flynn look guilty, the shenanigans with the handwritten notes of the interview and who wrote what, etc.) is really an inducement on them. But since as a country we are so polarized, many sectors of the media were more than willing to carry water for the FBI, defending FBI behavior against a Trump associate they would not tolerate even against the most unsympathetic of criminals (and remember, civil rights were not invented to protect sympathetic defendents...).

What was induced by (for) (on) them? I think you were looking for a different word there.

FTMCPIUS wrote:

There was no way Comey, Clapper, Brennan, et al. could proceed with their plans to get Trump removed from the White House while Flynn was the National Security Advisor. They knew they couldn’t get much past him, so they had to create circumstances that would give Trump no choice but to let Flynn resign.

The House will be hard-pressed to show that the documents released so far, with more to come, are not legitimate evidence of bad actors in the FBI and CIA having framed Flynn. They also did a job on his son. The only reason he plead guilty was in exchange for Comey’s promise to not prosecute his son if he did so.

The chickens are coming home to roost. It will be very interesting to see how these swamp creatures defend their actions. Their only way out will be for a Dem win in November.

Nobody with multiple foreign paystreams, some UNDISCLOSED, should be appointed to WH NSA, period, no? Ya’ll are letting who Flynn was get lost in the political scenery.

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

casinterest wrote:

But seriously. in your calls for retribution, it is apparent you are not calling for justice or equality. You are calling for revenge where there is none. Flynn is being let off to fulfill Barr's agenda to forgive Trump for asking for Russia to interfere in American Elections.

The justice system is just revenge by other means. What was done to Flynn was inexcusable, and he has every right to fight back if he feels aggrieved. Also, Sidney Powell, his lawyer, should get a Presidential Medal of Freedom - what a woman that is, truly teaches you the meaning of not taking no for an answer, and fighting the FBI and Covington tooth and nail to surface this information. If I have a daughter, I want her to look up to Sidney Powell as an example, doing by herself what the all-powerful Covington law firm couldn't (or wouldn't).

One thing to keep in mind is that the FBI still looks at J. Edgar Hoover as an example (have his name on the side of their headquarters and everything). Wihen those are your references, is there any wonder why they would consider this to be acceptable behavior?

Nearly all large institutions have institutional problems with believing their own BS and protecting their own. Does the FBI’s conduct absolve Flynn from selling out his country and lobbying for Turkey without proper registry as a foreign agent...then *accepting* a job like WH NSA? No way.

If lobbying for Turkey was such a crime, perhaps the FBI should have charged him with a FARA violation - oh, wait, they didn't because FARA is an unenforced bullshit law, and even the FBI knows it (certainly was not out of any love for Flynn, I can tell you that much...). Plus, if they were to be serious about it, they would have to arrest half of K-Street (including many D swamp-critters, like Podesta's brother).

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

The justice system is just revenge by other means. What was done to Flynn was inexcusable, and he has every right to fight back if he feels aggrieved. Also, Sidney Powell, his lawyer, should get a Presidential Medal of Freedom - what a woman that is, truly teaches you the meaning of not taking no for an answer, and fighting the FBI and Covington tooth and nail to surface this information. If I have a daughter, I want her to look up to Sidney Powell as an example, doing by herself what the all-powerful Covington law firm couldn't (or wouldn't).

One thing to keep in mind is that the FBI still looks at J. Edgar Hoover as an example (have his name on the side of their headquarters and everything). Wihen those are your references, is there any wonder why they would consider this to be acceptable behavior?

Nearly all large institutions have institutional problems with believing their own BS and protecting their own. Does the FBI’s conduct absolve Flynn from selling out his country and lobbying for Turkey without proper registry as a foreign agent...then *accepting* a job like WH NSA? No way.

If lobbying for Turkey was such a crime, perhaps the FBI should have charged him with a FARA violation - oh, wait, they didn't because FARA is an unenforced bullshit law, and even the FBI knows it (certainly was not out of any love for Flynn, I can tell you that much...). Plus, if they were to be serious about it, they would have to arrest half of K-Street (including many D swamp-critters, like Podesta's brother).

I’ll take “Real patriots don’t sell nuclear tech to Saudi 9/11 miscreants” for $500, Alex.

I think the most amazing thing in the middle of this whole thing is that the FBI's shenanigans came crashing down on them because of the meticulous written records they kept of their crimes. Seriously, who keeps 3-year old handwritten notes from a brainstorming session on how to railroad someone? Not since Adolf Eichmann has someone been caught with such meticulous accounts of their crimes. And lovers scheming over text message? These are supposed to be our Top Men, they, not 60+ million voters across the country, should get to decide who is President, and they let themselves be caught with their hands in the cookie jar like this? I think if the FBI, when pursuing some criminal organization, ever came across someone so stupid and sloppy they wouldn't believe their luck.

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Nearly all large institutions have institutional problems with believing their own BS and protecting their own. Does the FBI’s conduct absolve Flynn from selling out his country and lobbying for Turkey without proper registry as a foreign agent...then *accepting* a job like WH NSA? No way.

If lobbying for Turkey was such a crime, perhaps the FBI should have charged him with a FARA violation - oh, wait, they didn't because FARA is an unenforced bullshit law, and even the FBI knows it (certainly was not out of any love for Flynn, I can tell you that much...). Plus, if they were to be serious about it, they would have to arrest half of K-Street (including many D swamp-critters, like Podesta's brother).

I’ll take “Real patriots don’t sell nuclear tech to Saudi 9/11 miscreants” for $500, Alex.

Wait, now it's Saudi Arabia, not Turkey? HuffPost sure gets those talking points around fast.

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

If lobbying for Turkey was such a crime, perhaps the FBI should have charged him with a FARA violation - oh, wait, they didn't because FARA is an unenforced bullshit law, and even the FBI knows it (certainly was not out of any love for Flynn, I can tell you that much...). Plus, if they were to be serious about it, they would have to arrest half of K-Street (including many D swamp-critters, like Podesta's brother).

I’ll take “Real patriots don’t sell nuclear tech to Saudi 9/11 miscreants” for $500, Alex.

Wait, now it's Saudi Arabia, not Turkey? HuffPost sure gets those talking points around fast.

It’s both in Flynn’s case. No idea what you’re on about - WSJ first reported the Saudi links in 2017.

I’ll take your non-answers as answers.

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

I’ll take “Real patriots don’t sell nuclear tech to Saudi 9/11 miscreants” for $500, Alex.

Wait, now it's Saudi Arabia, not Turkey? HuffPost sure gets those talking points around fast.

It’s both in Flynn’s case. No idea what you’re on about - WSJ first reported the Saudi links in 2017.

I’ll take your non-answers as answers.

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

Wait, now it's Saudi Arabia, not Turkey? HuffPost sure gets those talking points around fast.

It’s both in Flynn’s case. No idea what you’re on about - WSJ first reported the Saudi links in 2017.

I’ll take your non-answers as answers.

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

Two questions posed in preceding posts. Your reading comprehension is not my responsibility.

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. Process crimes are often used where evidence is not enough to get a suspect of a crime of more substantial crimes. It has been long believed Flynn pled guilty to protect his son from prosecution for violations of an obscure law in discussions with Turkish officials. The decision of the US Justice Department is believed to have Trump's fingerprints all over it, to make him look good and make any accusers of him look real bad. It is very frustrating but this may be the legally correct one.

It is coincidence that today was a decision of the US Supreme Court, who voted 9-0 to overturn the convictions of 2 the persons who worked with then NJ Governor Christie (Republican), one an official of the PANYNJ to shut down 2 of 3 of Fort Lee, NJ's special local access toll lanes of the George Washington Bridge to extort the Democrat mayor to support Christie in his re-election. The use of a Federal law, since for sure under Republican Christie's as Governor there would never be state charges, was a serious stretch of the Federal laws they (and a 3rd person) were charged under that the SCOTUS' decision was shocking but not surprising.

The lesson from these events today must be to avoid politically pressured, overzealous investigations and prosecutions.

ltbewr wrote:

It is coincidence that today was a decision of the US Supreme Court, who voted 9-0 to overturn the convictions of 2 the persons who worked with then NJ Governor Christie (Republican), one an official of the PANYNJ to shut down 2 of 3 of Fort Lee, NJ's special local access toll lanes of the George Washington Bridge to extort the Democrat mayor to support Christie in his re-election. The use of a Federal law, since for sure under Republican Christie's as Governor there would never be state charges, was a serious stretch of the Federal laws they (and a 3rd person) were charged under that the SCOTUS' decision was shocking but not surprising.

The lesson from these events today must be to avoid politically pressured, overzealous investigations and prosecutions.

Bad example.

The Supreme Court also said it was a horrible example of absolute corruption of the legal process, extortion and malfeasance by public officials - Christi included. It deserved prosecution, and jail time for the defendants, and Christi.

But the particular law used for the prosecution of what was definitely a crime was not intended for that crime, and the prosecution under the statue was improper.

The court was VERY CLEAR in the 9-0 decision that is was a conspiracy that should have been criminally prosecuted. Evidence of the guilt of the defendants was overwhelming.

It was the process of the prosecution that was wrong.

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. Process crimes are often used where evidence is not enough to get a suspect of a crime of more substantial crimes. It has been long believed Flynn pled guilty to protect his son from prosecution for violations of an obscure law in discussions with Turkish officials. The decision of the US Justice Department is believed to have Trump's fingerprints all over it, to make him look good and make any accusers of him look real bad. It is very frustrating but this may be the legally correct one.

It is coincidence that today was a decision of the US Supreme Court, who voted 9-0 to overturn the convictions of 2 the persons who worked with then NJ Governor Christie (Republican), one an official of the PANYNJ to shut down 2 of 3 of Fort Lee, NJ's special local access toll lanes of the George Washington Bridge to extort the Democrat mayor to support Christie in his re-election. The use of a Federal law, since for sure under Republican Christie's as Governor there would never be state charges, was a serious stretch of the Federal laws they (and a 3rd person) were charged under that the SCOTUS' decision was shocking but not surprising.

The lesson from these events today must be to avoid politically pressured, overzealous investigations and prosecutions.

Flynn was never under oath, he was the National Security Advisor, speaking candidly with a couple of crooked FBI agents that, as far as he knew, were fellow government workers trying to prod on conversations for which they did not have the adequate security clearance. To this day the FBI has still been unable, or unwilling, to produce the original record of that conversation, but what we do know is that the one they finally produced was extensively edited by people who weren't even in the meeting (add document forgery to the long list of crimes of the prosecutors).

apodino wrote:

I am not a fan of this administration but it became obvious the past couple of weeks that Flynn was setup by the FBI. .

how exactly did they make him not disclose his lobbing activity for Turkey?

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. .

failure to register as a foreign agent is a real crime, not a process crime.

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

Wait, now it's Saudi Arabia, not Turkey? HuffPost sure gets those talking points around fast.

It’s both in Flynn’s case. No idea what you’re on about - WSJ first reported the Saudi links in 2017.

I’ll take your non-answers as answers.

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

More like "State of Law" doesn´t apply to him.

Well, he plead guilty, the Judge can still just decide to ignore the DoJ and convict him. Since he made clear Flynn committed serious crimes, he even had someone look up if it may be treason, i´d be a tat surprised if the Judge just goes along with Barrs next case of obstruction of justice.

Since the law is set up to protect peoples Civil Rights, real ones this time, the DoJ doesn´t get to file and drop charges just because they want to.

Plus of course the next DoJ is likely to just refile the charges if the Judge doesn´t.

But nice to see even the Trump co-conspirators seem to realize they need to hassle with their take over, since they have less than half a year to complete it.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

apodino wrote:

I am not a fan of this administration but it became obvious the past couple of weeks that Flynn was setup by the FBI. .

how exactly did they make him not disclose his lobbing activity for Turkey?

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. .

failure to register as a foreign agent is a real crime, not a process crime.

Pyrex wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

It’s both in Flynn’s case. No idea what you’re on about - WSJ first reported the Saudi links in 2017.

I’ll take your non-answers as answers.

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

More like "State of Law" doesn´t apply to him.

Well, he plead guilty, the Judge can still just decide to ignore the DoJ and convict him. Since he made clear Flynn committed serious crimes, he even had someone look up if it may be treason, i´d be a tat surprised if the Judge just goes along with Barrs next case of obstruction of justice.

Since the law is set up to protect peoples Civil Rights, real ones this time, the DoJ doesn´t get to file and drop charges just because they want to.

Plus of course the next DoJ is likely to just refile the charges if the Judge doesn´t.

But nice to see even the Trump co-conspirators seem to realize they need to hassle with their take over, since they have less than half a year to complete it.

best regards
Thomas

He can still be charged with those. A Dem win in November and he will be in prison by 2022.

FTMCPIUS wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

apodino wrote:

I am not a fan of this administration but it became obvious the past couple of weeks that Flynn was setup by the FBI. .

how exactly did they make him not disclose his lobbing activity for Turkey?

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. .

failure to register as a foreign agent is a real crime, not a process crime.

Pyrex wrote:

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

More like "State of Law" doesn´t apply to him.

Well, he plead guilty, the Judge can still just decide to ignore the DoJ and convict him. Since he made clear Flynn committed serious crimes, he even had someone look up if it may be treason, i´d be a tat surprised if the Judge just goes along with Barrs next case of obstruction of justice.

Since the law is set up to protect peoples Civil Rights, real ones this time, the DoJ doesn´t get to file and drop charges just because they want to.

Plus of course the next DoJ is likely to just refile the charges if the Judge doesn´t.

But nice to see even the Trump co-conspirators seem to realize they need to hassle with their take over, since they have less than half a year to complete it.

best regards
Thomas

He can still be charged with those. A Dem win in November and he will be in prison by 2022.

I think even if Trump wins again (i´d put that at the same 25% chance he had in 2016), Dems picking up enough Senate seats, possible, not likely, that only a proper AG gets confirmed would do that too.

best regards
Thomas

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

Did anyone expect anything else with this sack of crap administration involved and in charge? I sure didn't.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

One of the most shocking cases of abuse of power in U.S. judicial system has finally come to a conclusion (although hopefully things are only getting started...). After a steady drip-drip-drip of documentation showing FBI and DOJ malfeasance, culminating with a bombshell trove of documents last week, the DOJ is finally dropping charges against Michael Flynn, likely to avoid having to disclose even more damning evidence against themselves.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/p ... opped.html

I would say Justice is served, but that won't be the case until the dirty cops and prosecutors who harassed and extorted a war hero and his family, conspired with his crooked ex-lawyers, hid exculpatory evidence and lied to the court are rotting in jail, disbarred and their entire worldly possessions given to Michael Flynn in retribution. Let's hope the Judge in this case continues to force the government to release documents that can be used in his inevitable civil lawsuit against persecutors.

Did anyone expect anything else with this sack of crap administration involved and in charge? I sure didn't.

Tugg

reeks of two things:

1) distraction: has worked in the past, commit more crimes and scandals that anyone can to follow (i bet if you go through everything they did, lots of people would go "oh yeah, i forgot about that" with many things.
2) set up for a pardon, if they judge choses to convict anyways. Much harder to do if your own DoJ wanted him imprisoned.

best regards
Thomas

FTMCPIUS wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

apodino wrote:

I am not a fan of this administration but it became obvious the past couple of weeks that Flynn was setup by the FBI. .

how exactly did they make him not disclose his lobbing activity for Turkey?

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act. .

failure to register as a foreign agent is a real crime, not a process crime.

Pyrex wrote:

Answer what, when you did not pose any questions.

But I get it, you don't like the guy so you think Civil Rights don't apply to him. I will keep that standard in mind whenever things come back around.

More like "State of Law" doesn´t apply to him.

Well, he plead guilty, the Judge can still just decide to ignore the DoJ and convict him. Since he made clear Flynn committed serious crimes, he even had someone look up if it may be treason, i´d be a tat surprised if the Judge just goes along with Barrs next case of obstruction of justice.

Since the law is set up to protect peoples Civil Rights, real ones this time, the DoJ doesn´t get to file and drop charges just because they want to.

Plus of course the next DoJ is likely to just refile the charges if the Judge doesn´t.

But nice to see even the Trump co-conspirators seem to realize they need to hassle with their take over, since they have less than half a year to complete it.

best regards
Thomas

He can still be charged with those. A Dem win in November and he will be in prison by 2022.

So, what you are saying is "lock him up"? "Vote Dem so a random guy you had never heard of until 2016 can get arrested on some minor technical violation by his lawyers of some bullshit registration law that never gets enforced, and when it is it is through a small fine" - sounds like a winning platform to me, great separation of executive and judicial power.

Or maybe you are talking "lying to the FBI", not FARA. Sure, bring it on - you do realize it would be a new trial, though, right? Which means it would basically be the word of Michael Flynn against Peter Strozk and Pientka, who would have to testify under oath - are you sure you want that? Can't imagine Comey and McCabe would be looking forward to going on the stand, either, even in a DC court packed with swamp-critters... The 5th Amendment would get quite a workout. Do you now understand why Mueller's team has been so intent on enforcing a bullshit guilty plea they extorted out of him after bankrupting him, even when their own sentencing recommendation is no jail time, instead of allowing him to withdraw it and have this matter decided in a trial?

I think the great thing about the Flynn case is that it has finally exposed the fascist, authoritarian tendencies of many on the left, including many in this forum. If literally anyone else had been treated by the FBI and the DOJ the way Michael Flynn was treated, you would be screaming bloody murder, and rightfully so. Heck, if George W. Bush had treated the incoming Obama NSA like this, it would have been a scandal bigger than Watergate. But since it happened to someone affiliated with someone they do not like, they are perfectly OK with it.

Pyrex wrote:

FTMCPIUS wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

how exactly did they make him not disclose his lobbing activity for Turkey?



failure to register as a foreign agent is a real crime, not a process crime.



More like "State of Law" doesn´t apply to him.

Well, he plead guilty, the Judge can still just decide to ignore the DoJ and convict him. Since he made clear Flynn committed serious crimes, he even had someone look up if it may be treason, i´d be a tat surprised if the Judge just goes along with Barrs next case of obstruction of justice.

Since the law is set up to protect peoples Civil Rights, real ones this time, the DoJ doesn´t get to file and drop charges just because they want to.

Plus of course the next DoJ is likely to just refile the charges if the Judge doesn´t.

But nice to see even the Trump co-conspirators seem to realize they need to hassle with their take over, since they have less than half a year to complete it.

best regards
Thomas

He can still be charged with those. A Dem win in November and he will be in prison by 2022.

So, what you are saying is "lock him up"?

yeah, like you do with criminals that are proven guilty.

best regards
Thomas

That's the other thing - if you are so convinced Michael Flynn is this great criminal mastermind, you would not have spent over a year and millions of dollars trying to enforce a guilty plea with a sentencing recommendation of NO JAIlL TIME, you would have been glad that he had withdrawn his guilty plea and let this matter get decided in a trial, where he could have gotten the death sentence or whatever punishment you thought was appropriate in your fascist little noggin. Yet that is precisely what Mueller's team has done up until now. I wonder why they are so intent on preventing a trial...

If the Judge rejects the DOJ's withdrawal of charges, it is likely to be appealed, perhaps all the way to the Supreme Court or Pres. Trump pardon him.

I do expect that the Republican controlled Senate will spend its time with key committees doing investigations with the goals to punish the FBI and protect Trump rather than seek the truth and put in legal reforms.

As to my comments on Bridgegate, as I noted it was impossible to seek prosecutions under NJ state law under Republican Governor Christie's reign so political pressure was put on the Democrat appointed Federal Attorney to seek Federal prosecution stretching to the limits a Federal law. Bridgegate was a criminal act and all 3 of the prosecuted should have gotten long jail terms but it wasn't to be. At least it was brought out in the open, it caused major reforms at the PA (who runs the GW Bridge), Baroni's law firm was broken up and he was disbarred and Kelly is personally ruined for the rest of her life.

tommy1808 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

FTMCPIUS wrote:

He can still be charged with those. A Dem win in November and he will be in prison by 2022.

So, what you are saying is "lock him up"?

yeah, like you do with criminals that are proven guilty.

best regards
Thomas

Well, unfortunately for you, unless Biden's very own brand of bravado and stupidity manages to infect his DOJ in case he wins, the very last thing they will want to do is bring new charges against Michael Flynn, as that will mean a new trial (he won't roll over that easy this time around...), and a new trial means continued obligation to disclose Brady material, as well as a right to confront his accusers on the stand, under oath.

Pyrex wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

So, what you are saying is "lock him up"?

yeah, like you do with criminals that are proven guilty.

best regards
Thomas

Well, unfortunately for you, unless Biden's very own brand of bravado and stupidity manages to infect his DOJ in case he wins, the very last thing they will want to do is bring new charges against Michael Flynn, as that will mean a new trial (he won't roll over that easy this time around...), and a new trial means continued obligation to disclose Brady material, as well as a right to confront his accusers on the stand, under oath.

...or that judge just convicts him. So far that judge didn't seem very corrupt.

But yeah, the coup may in deed succeed.

Best regards
Thomas

Last time that judge saw an abuse of power like this (something that, frankly, paled in comparison to this) he ended up nominating a special prosecutor to investigate the prosecutors. Dirty prosecutors ended up committing suicide instead of facing the music. I wouldn't keep my hopes up.

Pyrex wrote:

Last time that judge saw an abuse of power like this

He also made pretty clear that he considers Flynn's actions basically treason, and checked if the statue isn't actually applicable to this case.

A judge checking if capital punishment is in play doesn't appear to find the prosecution very wrong.

Best regards
Thomas

Good thing he is not being charged with treason, then, he is being charged with one count of lying to the FBI. And the only witnesses to that are dirty FBI agents whose testimony on the stand would collapse like a castle of cards (if they decided not to just plead the 5th, that is).

But if you feel so strongly about Flynn, then you should be OK with him withdrawing his guilty plea FOR NO JAIL TIME and going to trial. The reason you aren't is because you know they would have no case, and the crooked FBI and DOJ agents would expose themselves to risks.

Newark727 wrote:

All of this could have been avoided had the Trump campaign shown even a single iota of patriotism, honesty, or common sense...

Yes just like the previous administration.

Unless you have close and an eye witness to this kind of abuse of power you can't imagibe ths shht that goes on in the name of justice.

BravoOne wrote:

Yes just like the previous administration.

But, but, but Obama! There it is. Don't know why people are always trying to go back and excuse what is wrong. As a Republican, the idea is to do what is right and to support those that do and don't support or advocate for those that do not do the right thing. IT has a moral component to, that goes beyond just "it's a law". And you are supposed to do it regardless of what others do. You be polite even if others aren't. You follow the law, even if others might not. You be good even if others aren't. You do your best even when others don't.

Now instead so many just like to make excuses. "But he does it, so that make it OK". Bah.

Tugg

Just trying to point out the inconsistencies that exist in some of these posts and their respective positions. Hopefully BO's complicit participation in the recent Flynn debacle comes to light during the investigation. The guy is a political scum.

ltbewr wrote:

Basically Flynn pled guilty to a 'process' crime, basically lying under oath, not of a direct criminal act.

We had a former president impeached and tried for the exact same thing...

BravoOne wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

All of this could have been avoided had the Trump campaign shown even a single iota of patriotism, honesty, or common sense...

Yes just like the previous administration.

Unless you have close and an eye witness to this kind of abuse of power you can't imagibe ths shht that goes on in the name of justice.

When cornered, blame Obama. If you guys are so concerned about it, why not elect someone who is the opposite of what you hate? Oh, wait.....