Moderators: richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
kabq737
Topic Author
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Thu May 21, 2020 7:25 pm

Hey everybody

I recently came across this video of a Korean Air 747 being pulled back as opposed to pushed back.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAZcFofgQf ... b0bzbvxhdh

Is there an advantage to this sort of thing? How common is it?

Kabq737
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4839
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Thu May 21, 2020 8:19 pm

kabq737 wrote:
Hey everybody

I recently came across this video of a Korean Air 747 being pulled back as opposed to pushed back.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAZcFofgQf ... b0bzbvxhdh

Is there an advantage to this sort of thing? How common is it?

Kabq737

It depends on what the need is. the 747 can be moved by towing from the front or pushing from the back. The tug driver? Had better know what they're doing though.
I've done it and seen it done both ways. Especially docking into a Hangar with access scaffolding all around it.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 12:29 am

Really, just different technique. As noted, if towing from below, you can get into a tighter space.

I've found that towing from below is a little quicker, and you don't have very much counter steering to get the aircraft where you want it. You just need to be sure you keep the tug pointed between the wing gear, because you no longer have nose gear visibility, depending on how you set up the tug.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
kabq737
Topic Author
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 2:29 am

That’s interesting thanks for the answers everyone.

Can all aircraft have a tow bar connected from the rear?
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
StereoTechque
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:24 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 3:15 am

kabq737 wrote:
That’s interesting thanks for the answers everyone.

Can all aircraft have a tow bar connected from the rear?

Nope not all aircrafts have that luxury.
There is a provision on the A320 MLG so that it can be pulled back in case of NLG overrun.
Looking California.. Feeling Minnesota.... R. I.P. Chris Cornell...
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12558
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 4:26 am

I've never seen this before....kinda crazy!

I'm obviously no expert, but I'd imagine being able to see the nose gear and the airplane, without turning your head back and forth, would be one advantage of a pushback.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 4:32 am

vikkyvik wrote:
I've never seen this before....kinda crazy!

I'm obviously no expert, but I'd imagine being able to see the nose gear and the airplane, without turning your head back and forth, would be one advantage of a pushback.


That type of tug can be driven from either end. The way the guy on the video was is doing it was frowned upon by one of my employers. You hooked the aircraft up, then went to the other cab and faced the direction of travel during the actual push.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12558
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 4:34 am

fr8mech wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
I've never seen this before....kinda crazy!

I'm obviously no expert, but I'd imagine being able to see the nose gear and the airplane, without turning your head back and forth, would be one advantage of a pushback.


That type of tug can be driven from either end. The way the guy on the video was is doing it was frowned upon by one of my employers. You hooked the aircraft up, then went to the other cab and faced the direction of travel during the actual push.


But doesn't that mean you still have to turn around to see the nose gear?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 4:46 am

vikkyvik wrote:
But doesn't that mean you still have to turn around to see the nose gear?


Yes. But the spots we used this type of push on...in the hangar area...was a quick turn to a straight back push for a hundred yards or so, then stop and drop the aircraft. Spent almost the entire push looking at the main gear.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12558
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Fri May 22, 2020 2:36 pm

fr8mech wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
But doesn't that mean you still have to turn around to see the nose gear?


Yes. But the spots we used this type of push on...in the hangar area...was a quick turn to a straight back push for a hundred yards or so, then stop and drop the aircraft. Spent almost the entire push looking at the main gear.


Gotcha, thanks.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
DFW17L
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Sun May 24, 2020 5:18 pm

I remember when AA used TRs for “pullback” on the MD80s at DFW. The sequence would start with a momentary forward motion, then you’d hear the TRs engage before starting your pullback. Except for the slight forward motion, it was pretty cool.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Tue May 26, 2020 6:42 pm

kabq737 wrote:
Can all aircraft have a tow bar connected from the rear?

Kind of curious if there's a tug that's small enough to fit under some of these planes, like a 737.
Captain Kevin
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4839
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:24 pm

kabq737 wrote:
That’s interesting thanks for the answers everyone.

Can all aircraft have a tow bar connected from the rear?

No, the belly has to be more than 6' above the ground to even do that, so not may Airliners have that clearance.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4839
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Tue May 26, 2020 10:34 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Really, just different technique. As noted, if towing from below, you can get into a tighter space.

I've found that towing from below is a little quicker, and you don't have very much counter steering to get the aircraft where you want it. You just need to be sure you keep the tug pointed between the wing gear, because you no longer have nose gear visibility, depending on how you set up the tug.

the tug driver could have driven that TL from either end. while I do not agree with the way he did it? He didn't damage the airplane so? It was ok.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7983
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Wed May 27, 2020 12:33 am

strfyr51 wrote:
the tug driver could have driven that TL from either end. while I do not agree with the way he did it? He didn't damage the airplane so? It was ok.


I don't disagree. Just saying the way he did it was frowned upon by one of my employers. Another employer didn't really address it one way or the other. I've done it both ways, depending on the situation. I just preferred to drive "forward".

If done right, it's perfectly safe.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
StereoTechque
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:24 am

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Wed May 27, 2020 2:17 am

DFW17L wrote:
I remember when AA used TRs for “pullback” on the MD80s at DFW. The sequence would start with a momentary forward motion, then you’d hear the TRs engage before starting your pullback. Except for the slight forward motion, it was pretty cool.


It was called Powerback. Saved a few minutes of time but it is expensive.
Looking California.. Feeling Minnesota.... R. I.P. Chris Cornell...
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Wed May 27, 2020 3:41 am

StereoTechque wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
I remember when AA used TRs for “pullback” on the MD80s at DFW. The sequence would start with a momentary forward motion, then you’d hear the TRs engage before starting your pullback. Except for the slight forward motion, it was pretty cool.


It was called Powerback. Saved a few minutes of time but it is expensive.


Not really that expensive depending on the price of fuel. Many out stations during my 727 days had limited tugs if you could even get one and my company paid some of these contractors a bunch for pushbacks. Cheaper to do a powerback I was told. Still needed a marshaller and wing walker.
 
FGITD
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Advantages of a pullback vs a pushback?

Wed May 27, 2020 3:54 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
StereoTechque wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
I remember when AA used TRs for “pullback” on the MD80s at DFW. The sequence would start with a momentary forward motion, then you’d hear the TRs engage before starting your pullback. Except for the slight forward motion, it was pretty cool.


It was called Powerback. Saved a few minutes of time but it is expensive.


Not really that expensive depending on the price of fuel. Many out stations during my 727 days had limited tugs if you could even get one and my company paid some of these contractors a bunch for pushbacks. Cheaper to do a powerback I was told. Still needed a marshaller and wing walker.


One of the more fun marshalling signals though. Definitely required a little more skill and a quick talk with the pilots. You'd be hard pressed to find a team that would know how to do it these days.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: NIZMO and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos