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ltbewr
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First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:30 pm

At about 8 AM today, Daniel Day Lewis, who murdered and robbed in 1996 a family in Arkansas and was an open White Supremacist, was executed by lethal injection at the Federal Prison in Indiana. This was the Federal execution in 17 years, the last one was of Louis Jones, Jr. in 2003 for murder of an active US Military person. There were 2 others in 2001, most notably of Timothy McVeigh the bomber of the OKC Federal Building in 2001.
There was a series of court challenges over the last several weeks and hours before it was carried out. The family of the victim ha objected to the execution and some delays were caused due to some in the prison infected with Covid-19. Two other Federal prisoners are scheduled to face execution soon. Apparently the Federal prison system was able to obtain sufficient quantities of the drugs needed to carry out this and the near future executions. That these executions are being carried out during a time of a pandemic, when a certain person as President, likely illegal and deceptive methods to obtain the drugs for the execution, serious ethical and moral issues as to executions in general and by drugs, is just shameful.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics ... index.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-cour ... 29253.html
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:15 pm

He was convicted and executed per the law. You kill other people, you may suffer the same consequences. As long as it follows solid proper due process and actual guilt of the crime is not in doubt, I can support the death penalty (I don't support it all the times it has been imposed).

If people are against using drugs for an execution then I say just pump in air. That will take care of it just as fast.

Tugg
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LCDFlight
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:29 pm

The law written by the people's representives is clear, certain crimes are so foul that death is a fair punishment and an appropriate deterrent. The US has minimum standards for people. They're low, but they do exist.

It is much better for a court of law, _under an elected government_, to administer a death penalty than for mobs to do the same.
Last edited by LCDFlight on Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:30 pm

Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LCDFlight
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:39 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


Our people are not content to let the worst monsters do their crime and then laugh at society in jail.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:47 pm

Such a soft punishment putting him to sleep, they should have brought the electric chair back, look what this guy did:


On January 11, 1996, they arrived at the home of William Frederick Mueller, a gun dealer who lived near Tilly, Arkansas, who possessed a large collection of weapons, ammunition, and cash. Kehoe and his father had robbed Mueller back in February 1995, and Kehoe planned to find valuable property at the house. Dressed in police raid clothing, the two men tried to enter the Mueller home, but the family was not at home. When the Muellers returned, Lee and Kehoe overpowered and incapacitated Mueller and his wife, Nancy Ann Mueller (née Branch). They then questioned Nancy Mueller's 8-year-old daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Powell, about where they could find the cash, guns, and ammunition. After finding $50,000 in cash, guns, and ammunition, they shot each of the three victims with a stun gun, causing them to pass out. They then placed plastic bags over their heads, and sealed the bags with duct tape, suffocating them to death. They took the victims in Kehoe's vehicle to the Illinois Bayou, where they taped rocks to them and threw each family member into the swamp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lewis_Lee


If you are against the death penalty, tell me what you think of someone who murders and entire family, kills an 8 year old child the way this monster did, should tax payers pay for him to live?
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LabQuest
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:48 pm

And nothing of value was lost.
 
LabQuest
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:49 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


You forgot the savage nation of Japan.
 
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:49 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.

The USA is civilized so obviously that is not some magically thing that defines. If you are suggesting otherwise then where is your civility? And there are solid rational for it. For me? It is not a "deterrent", people kill regardless of the law being place, it is a consequence. If you take a life, if you murder another human you my be convicted and be sentenced to death.

Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt"). So I can support halting the process until that is addressed but again, otherwise it can be a consequence of murdering another and I am comfortable with that.

Tugg
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ltbewr
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:50 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.

Over time my support for the Death Penalty has declined for many reasons well discussed here and elsewhere by me and others. As far as reported, unlike some recent State drug executions, there seemed to be little or no complications or suffering during the execution today. That still doesn't make it morally right.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:24 pm

Tugger wrote:
Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt").


With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view to take, even understandable.
Last edited by Dutchy on Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:27 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


You forgot the savage nation of Japan.


Japan is not held up as anyone’s paragon of justice - it is one of few ‘developed’ countries where cops can hold you over 20 days without any charges - and sleep deprivation tactics are used to get a 99% conviction rate by way of confessions.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:29 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt").


With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view.


Nonsense - plenty of people have been convicted beyond a doubt by GPS phone data, DNA and other evidence.
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Tugger
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:33 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Now I know there have been abuses of the death penalty and it has been applied "unevenly" (racial bias is obvious) and handed down too often where there is not absolute proof of guilt (and I mean absolute, not "beyond a reasonable doubt").


With all due respect, Tugg, then in all practice, you are against the death penalty, there is no such thing as absolute proof. You might find it morally defendable, which is a perfectly good point of view.

Nope, I am in support of the death penalty as there is often absolute proof. How can you deny that?

Tugg
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alfa164
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:47 pm

Tugger wrote:
Nope, I am in support of the death penalty as there is often absolute proof. How can you deny that?



In an ideal world, you might be justified. Unfortunately, there are too many cases where juries have determined there was "absolute truth", beyond a shadow of a doubt, to convict someone... and only later to learn that individual was innocent.

As long as humans are fallible, their judgements will be suspect. And application of the ultimate punishment (even though I would argue that life in prison, without any chance of parole, is actually more punishment that taking the "easy out" of the death sentence) should not be in the hands of us mere mortals.
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Dogman
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:52 pm

The way I see it, abolishing of the death penalty is not for the benefit of the convicted, but for the rest of the society. It simply tries to establish the idea that killing people is wrong, no matter what. It is hard to argue this point when the government itself is engaged in killing. You may say that in case with the government it is justified, but then everybody could say that in their case it was also justified. Death penalty just satisfy our thirst for vengeance, it serves no practical purpose. So, on one hand we have an attempt to instill into the people's mind that killing is wrong, on the other hand we have our vengeance temporarily satisfied. You decide what is more important to you.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:56 pm

Tugger wrote:
Nope, I am in support of the death penalty as there is often absolute proof.


Nope, there just isn't such a thing, sorry to break your bubble. Ask any judge or lawyer. There is always doubt, no matter how small it is, so absolute proof does not exist, don't delude yourself.

Anyhow, it is the choice of Americans to kill their fellow Americans if they wish. No point to have a pro-/con death penalty debate. Nobody will be convinced.
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apodino
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.

Amen. There have been many stories about guys being convicted and executed, then it emerged after they were executed that they were completely innocent. As far as I am concerned the Death Penalty is Cruel and Unusual punishment, which the constitution specifically prohibits.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:33 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
should tax payers pay for him to live?

Should they pay up to 18 times as much just to exact some fau idea of justice (aka revenge)?

If it's costs to the tax payer you're working from, it's far, far cheaper to just let them rot in the prison system for the rest of their days. Death penalty cases (even if they result in life without parole) costs you a minimum of double the cost, straight of the bat.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


Maybe if your family had been tortured and murdered, you may think differently.

But I agree. I am against death penalty. Whether I would be if I lost a family member in brutal circumstances, I don’t know.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


Maybe if your family had been tortured and murdered, you may think differently.

But I agree. I am against death penalty. Whether I would be if I lost a family member in brutal circumstances, I don’t know.


Hopefully, I don't. But this is a real live case and according to the OP: "The family of the victim ha objected to the execution".
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:28 pm

“We don’t hang men for stealing horses, we hang them so horses won’t be stolen.”

A old friend who flew JPATS once had a passenger who was an “inside murderer” (he committed contract murder as a life without parole prisoner. Yes, they exist, ask Billy Bulger). The law changed on Federal death penalty and he was facing death. Quickly, did a deal to take death off the possible outcomes. Alex said, “man was as cold, heartless as you imagine, but when the certainty of a death sentence came, he was all too quick to turn.
 
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Revelation
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:23 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Yes, they exist, ask Billy Bulger

Billy Bulger is alive and well after decades serving (himself?) in the Legislature and then as President of UMass. He still pulls down $200k a year in pension from the State of Massachusetts. ( ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B ... and_family )

His brother "Whitey", not so much. Some times staying in the Supermax is the right move. Seems like the Feds didn't spend too much taxpayer funds trying to put away the guys who whacked him.
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TWA772LR
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:53 am

Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Nope, I am in support of the death penalty as there is often absolute proof.


Nope, there just isn't such a thing, sorry to break your bubble. Ask any judge or lawyer. There is always doubt, no matter how small it is, so absolute proof does not exist, don't delude yourself.

Anyhow, it is the choice of Americans to kill their fellow Americans if they wish. No point to have a pro-/con death penalty debate. Nobody will be convinced.

So there was doubt that Nazi war criminals were, uh... Nazi war criminals? Or that bin Laden was the mastermind of 9/11? Or Carl Panzram who actually confessed to all of his crimes? Or the FBI guy that only evaded the death penalty for espionage and treason by doing the plea deal where he confessed to all 14 counts of feeding secrets to the Soviets?

Socially I'm pretty liberal, but I do believe in capital punishment. Now do I believe that innocent people have been executed? I certainly do. Texas unfortunately arrested, convicted, and executed an innocent man who happened to have the same name of the perpetrator. As well as a man who allegedly burned down his house to kill his wife and kids, only to truly replicate the conditions of the fire in a lab after he was executed.

I share the sentiment as Tugger where it should only be allowed where there is absolutely no proof that a person could be innocent, but if there is even a shred of doubt then the death penalty should be off the table and the convicted should be allow to appeal as much as possible.
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stl07
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:12 am

It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:18 am

Revelation wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Yes, they exist, ask Billy Bulger

Billy Bulger is alive and well after decades serving (himself?) in the Legislature and then as President of UMass. He still pulls down $200k a year in pension from the State of Massachusetts. ( ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B ... and_family )

His brother "Whitey", not so much. Some times staying in the Supermax is the right move. Seems like the Feds didn't spend too much taxpayer funds trying to put away the guys who whacked him.


Geas is in solitary but not enough to try him on. You can ask Billy, Whitey, not so much which why I said to ask Billy.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:20 am

stl07 wrote:
It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.


That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.
 
tommy1808
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:15 am

Tugger wrote:
He was convicted and executed per the law.


He was murdered by the state, only that they state gave itself an exception from what would otherwise tick all boxes. ....so convenient. This is no different from any other murderer claiming their deed was justified, aside of having enough people around nodding in agreement to make it stick.

s long as it follows solid proper due process and actual guilt of the crime is not in doubt, I can support the death penalty (I don't support it all the times it has been imposed).


The Taliban nod in agreement, they also follow solid proper due process and actual guilt of the crime is not in doubt when they execute people.

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stl07
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:15 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.


That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.

:checkmark: :checkmark:
I was all for the death penalty until hearing about that. Now, I'm 100% against it for that reason and of course for the many that have been wrongfully killed.
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:07 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I share the sentiment as Tugger where it should only be allowed where there is absolutely no proof that a person could be innocent, but if there is even a shred of doubt then the death penalty should be off the table and the convicted should be allow to appeal as much as possible.


I appreciate your sentiment, but if you use the word "absolute", there is no way it can be true. You can continue to give examples, fine, but you have to acknowledge that you cannot with absolute certainty say that they were not criminally insane. What I am getting at is, if you are pro-death penalty, which I can imagine, then you have to accept that a certain percentage, no matter how small, will be killed by the state while innocent. That is a package deal. Saying you only want to kill those who deserve it, fine, nobody wants to kill the innocent, yet it still happens.

The pro-death penalty point of view means accepting innocent to be executed as well. If you want to be 100% certain that no one is executed who is innocent, there is a very simple and easy to implement solution: abolish the death penalty and no one will be executed innocent.
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:09 am

stl07 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.


That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.

:checkmark: :checkmark:
I was all for the death penalty until hearing about that. Now, I'm 100% against it for that reason and of course for the many that have been wrongfully killed.


wow, the first time I hear the financial argument was the clinching argument. :D
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stl07
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:02 am

Dutchy wrote:
stl07 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.

:checkmark: :checkmark:
I was all for the death penalty until hearing about that. Now, I'm 100% against it for that reason and of course for the many that have been wrongfully killed.


wow, the first time I hear the financial argument was the clinching argument. :D

Well it was on the same panel where I got to hear about how it both costs more and kills the wrong person a bunch of times, so after that day, my opinion was made haha
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GDB
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:12 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


Maybe if your family had been tortured and murdered, you may think differently.

But I agree. I am against death penalty. Whether I would be if I lost a family member in brutal circumstances, I don’t know.


That is why you have a legal and justice system, to prevent in effect mob rule.

While the examples quoted for this thread handily have two extreme right wing killers, (including McVeigh of course), the majority of state sponsored murders in the US are not from that group.
There have been numerous cases of the accused having terrible legal representation, some lawyer often having no experience in this sort of case.
As well as plenty where the evidence was subsequently found to be very questionable, usually after the prisoner was dead.

No such thing as 100% certainty either, DNA for example while a huge advance (especially in more 'cold cases'), it is an advance like fingerprints once were. Evidence can be planted, manipulated.
Given what we have seen in recent years, with the conduct of too many cops and Grand Juries, trusting some of those with cases in states that still have the death penalty is very problematic.

It was ended in the UK in 1965, not least due to a rash of very controversial executions in the 15 years prior to that.
Timothy Evans was executed for murdering his wife and infant child.
It was subsequently found that his landlord, Reginald Christie, had killed them (and several other women, including his wife). He was hanged Evans was given a pardon, after his death. Evans was of very low intelligence, at his trial Christie gave evidence against him and was far more convincing to a jury. Two years later, the truth was out, too late for Evans.

Bentley and Craig, in 1952 two teenagers caught robbing a warehouse were cornered of the roof by police. Craig, younger with a history of criminality shot and killed a policeman. Bentley, of very low intelligence (see a pattern here?), easily led, was unarmed, he said in response to police officers ordering Craig to hand over his gun he was waving around, said 'let him have it Chris'.
Craig fired. Craig however at 17 was too young to be executed. Bentley however, despite him having the intelligence of a child, was at 18. He was executed. Craig only served a few years in prison, the kid who fired the shot.

This coincided with one of those tedious 'law and order' crackdowns that our press and some politicians engage in, the Home Secretary took a break from his anti homosexual Witchfinding to ensure the execution, ignoring extensive calls for clemency from across the political divide. No, he wanted to look 'tough on crime'.

Ruth Ellis, the last woman to be executed in Britain in 1954. She had shot her lover, a wealthy playboy / racing driver. Ellis, from the wrong side of the tracks though with a son (who himself committed suicide in 1982 aged 37 after a miserable life), was as a hostess in nightclubs entered the world of her lover. Who beat her, one time so badly she miscarried their child.
We now know she may have been encouraged, in her post miscarriage mental state, to kill her lover by a rival for her affections, he may have even supplied the gun.
When executioner Albert Pierrepoint put the noose on Ellis's neck, she smiled. (Free at last perhaps?)

Again, much disquiet at the conduct of the trial, the very selective police evidence, the sheer swiftness of it.
One positive, it did bring in a law with took account of the mental state of someone accused of a serious crime like this.
She would not have been executed had that law been in place then.

Pierrepoint also did the Nazi War Criminals under British control, basically that meant the guards and staff at Belsen.
The UK were somewhat appalled by the hanging by strangulation that the US seemed to use, as well as their electric chairs and to the present day, often botched lethal injections.
Pierrepoint could get them out of the cells, noose and hood on, trapdoor opened, with the prisoner's weight calculated to ensure instant severing of the spinal cord and death, all within 8 seconds.
In later life, Pierrepoint reflected that he had not deterred any crimes.

I mention Belsen, since that was part of the endgame of WW2.
They were in my view, the last morally legitimate state executions the UK carried out.
Not a part of civil society, peacetime law and order after all.

Then we have Ricky Ray Rector, a lobotimised prisoner, who to help in his campaign for running for President, Gov. Clinton ensured was executed. How did Rector react? When called to his death he left a bit of his last meal, some dessert, to have when he came back to his cell.
Gotta have that political momentum haven't we? What's a mentally disordered and now semi functional prisoner to that?
And there we have it, state sponsored murder as a political prop.
Evans, Bentley, Ellis arguably, Rector, almost something out of the T4 programme in Germany, guess when?
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:21 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Maybe if your family had been tortured and murdered, you may think differently.

But I agree. I am against death penalty. Whether I would be if I lost a family member in brutal circumstances, I don’t know.


I watched an interview with a parent of one of the child murder victims of Anders Brevik in Norway in 2011. When he was asked if he wished to see the killer of his child executed, he responded "no, I want him to remain alive so he can see that we do not have the right to take life. I want him to see we do not sink to his level. I want him to know we are better than him."
 
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Shame that the US still hasn't abolished the death penalty as any civilized society has done. But it is their choice to have this kind of punishment, although there is no rationale for it.


You forgot the savage nation of Japan.


Japan is not held up as anyone’s paragon of justice - it is one of few ‘developed’ countries where cops can hold you over 20 days without any charges - and sleep deprivation tactics are used to get a 99% conviction rate by way of confessions.


Adding on, Japanese court system is more or less a kangaroo court where convictions are more or less guaranteed anyway.

On a side note, though, Japan only sentence people to death for homicide cases that involved more than one death. Their death rows are also a lot smaller than the one in US.

PS When it come to "developed" country, nothing beat Singapore where you can be sentence to death for drug possession. You can't say you aren't warned, though.
 
ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:02 pm

One big problem with the death penalty in the USA is the unevenness of laws allowing it Most states don't have or have not executed persons in many years, even decades, Michigan hasn't allowed it since 1846, the only state that never used the penalty from its establishment as a state. It is really unfair that the same crime can mean death in some states but life in prison in others.
The USA came close to ending the death penalty in a US Supreme Court decision in 1973 but states that wanted to continue it changed their laws to confirm to the decision of the Court, in particular a separate jury hearing after conviction as to applying the death or life sentence. Most death penalty executions in the last 35 years have been concentrated in a few states, https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/9-st ... gs-845721/
Most executions are in the former Confederacy states, where weak or really no defense counsel and access to technical defense testimony, the overwhelming proportion of those sentenced to death are non-White, are questions of the mental intelligence and mental health, and often very media sensationalized cases.
 
GDB
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:39 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Most executions are in the former Confederacy states, where weak or really no defense counsel and access to technical defense testimony, the overwhelming proportion of those sentenced to death are non-White, are questions of the mental intelligence and mental health, and often very media sensationalized cases.


No big surprise there then.
Should have been federally banned when they had the chance.
Stop all the crackers carrying on Jim Crow by other means.
 
AA747123
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:52 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.


That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.


What drives up the costs is all the legal challenges and endless appeals. Tighten up the appeals process down to just 1 and have the execution carried out within 6 months of the original conviction and the costs would plummet.
 
AA747123
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:56 pm

Tugger wrote:
If people are against using drugs for an execution then I say just pump in air. That will take care of it just as fast.

Tugg


Or bring back the electric chair, its full proof and virtually painless. 2000 volts directly into the brain will kill you in less than 1 second.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:57 pm

AA747123 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
It actually costs us less to keep them alive than kill them. Plus they get out of their punishment easily.


That shows the silliness of the US criminal system.


What drives up the costs is all the legal challenges and endless appeals. Tighten up the appeals process down to just 1 and have the execution carried out within 6 months of the original conviction and the costs would plummet.


Ok, serious question though, what percentage of innocent people executed do you think is acceptable?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
alfa164
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:57 pm

AA747123 wrote:
What drives up the costs is all the legal challenges and endless appeals. Tighten up the appeals process down to just 1 and have the execution carried out within 6 months of the original conviction and the costs would plummet.


... and just kill more innocent people by denying them the right to a proper and complete appeals process. That will save money!


That is what you meant... right?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
GDB
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:14 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
If people are against using drugs for an execution then I say just pump in air. That will take care of it just as fast.

Tugg


Or bring back the electric chair, its full proof and virtually painless. 2000 volts directly into the brain will kill you in less than 1 second.


No it wasn't, far from it. Like most US executions they were/are botched, in these cases the prisoner far from dying right away, sadism seems to be ingrained in US Capital Punishment.
And it's most vocal proponents.
 
LabQuest
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:25 pm

GDB wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
If people are against using drugs for an execution then I say just pump in air. That will take care of it just as fast.

Tugg


Or bring back the electric chair, its full proof and virtually painless. 2000 volts directly into the brain will kill you in less than 1 second.


No it wasn't, far from it. Like most US executions they were/are botched, in these cases the prisoner far from dying right away, sadism seems to be ingrained in US Capital Punishment.
And it's most vocal proponents.


Why is it always these complex drug cocktails? Why not just inject them with a pint of morphine or fentanyl? You'd die in 2 seconds. Boom. No complex procedures, no problems sourcing drugs, quick and painless.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:31 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Why is it always these complex drug cocktails? Why not just inject them with a pint of morphine or fentanyl? You'd die in 2 seconds. Boom. No complex procedures, no problems sourcing drugs, quick and painless.

The new craze is asphyxiation by nitrogen. Oklahoma is actively investigating a protocol.

It's weird to think that somebody gets paid to come up with these things.
 
LabQuest
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:51 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Why is it always these complex drug cocktails? Why not just inject them with a pint of morphine or fentanyl? You'd die in 2 seconds. Boom. No complex procedures, no problems sourcing drugs, quick and painless.

The new craze is asphyxiation by nitrogen. Oklahoma is actively investigating a protocol.

It's weird to think that somebody gets paid to come up with these things.


Heck, just a vacuum chamber. I've watched training videos of pilots getting hypoxia and just having a grand old time playing card games while they are literally dying. The only thing that stops are the instructors physically putting their masks on.
 
bennett123
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:53 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bentley_case

Firstly, the defence claimed there was ambiguity in the evidence as to how many shots were fired and by whom. A later forensic ballistics expert cast doubt on whether Craig could have hit Miles if he had shot at him deliberately:[3] The fatal bullet was not found. Craig had used bullets of different undersized calibres, and the sawn-off barrel made it inaccurate to a degree of six feet at the range from which he fired.

Is it possible that it was friendly fire. No way of knowing now, but certainly not impossible. No way the Police would admit that.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Such a soft punishment putting him to sleep, they should have brought the electric chair back, look what this guy did:


On January 11, 1996, they arrived at the home of William Frederick Mueller, a gun dealer who lived near Tilly, Arkansas, who possessed a large collection of weapons, ammunition, and cash. Kehoe and his father had robbed Mueller back in February 1995, and Kehoe planned to find valuable property at the house. Dressed in police raid clothing, the two men tried to enter the Mueller home, but the family was not at home. When the Muellers returned, Lee and Kehoe overpowered and incapacitated Mueller and his wife, Nancy Ann Mueller (née Branch). They then questioned Nancy Mueller's 8-year-old daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Powell, about where they could find the cash, guns, and ammunition. After finding $50,000 in cash, guns, and ammunition, they shot each of the three victims with a stun gun, causing them to pass out. They then placed plastic bags over their heads, and sealed the bags with duct tape, suffocating them to death. They took the victims in Kehoe's vehicle to the Illinois Bayou, where they taped rocks to them and threw each family member into the swamp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lewis_Lee


If you are against the death penalty, tell me what you think of someone who murders and entire family, kills an 8 year old child the way this monster did, should tax payers pay for him to live?


Thank you. This monster lived far too long on our tax-payer's dime.
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aeromoe
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:03 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
If people are against using drugs for an execution then I say just pump in air. That will take care of it just as fast.

Tugg


Or bring back the electric chair, its full proof and virtually painless.
Well, fool proof. Have you seen the movie The Green Mile? Percy sure sabatoged THAT electrocution. But that's Hollywood.
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ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:43 am

Three men have been executed by the US Federal government this week. Its like a rushed production line. First was Daniel Lewis Lee on the 14th, Wesley Ira Purkey on the 16th and late Friday afternoon, the 17th, Dustin Lee Honkin. There is one more Federal prisoner scheduled to be executed by the end of the August. All 3 Federal prisoners executed this week/year are White. The average time between the date of their crimes and execution is 24 years which raises serious questions as to the rush to do their executions now. Perhaps it to 'look tough on crime' in an election year, to get them done before Democratic Joe Biden becomes President and stops the execution or maybe to use the death drugs before they expire.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13462
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: First US Federal execution in 17 years carried out

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:28 am

aeromoe wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Such a soft punishment putting him to sleep, they should have brought the electric chair back, look what this guy did:


On January 11, 1996, they arrived at the home of William Frederick Mueller, a gun dealer who lived near Tilly, Arkansas, who possessed a large collection of weapons, ammunition, and cash. Kehoe and his father had robbed Mueller back in February 1995, and Kehoe planned to find valuable property at the house. Dressed in police raid clothing, the two men tried to enter the Mueller home, but the family was not at home. When the Muellers returned, Lee and Kehoe overpowered and incapacitated Mueller and his wife, Nancy Ann Mueller (née Branch). They then questioned Nancy Mueller's 8-year-old daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Powell, about where they could find the cash, guns, and ammunition. After finding $50,000 in cash, guns, and ammunition, they shot each of the three victims with a stun gun, causing them to pass out. They then placed plastic bags over their heads, and sealed the bags with duct tape, suffocating them to death. They took the victims in Kehoe's vehicle to the Illinois Bayou, where they taped rocks to them and threw each family member into the swamp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lewis_Lee


If you are against the death penalty, tell me what you think of someone who murders and entire family, kills an 8 year old child the way this monster did, should tax payers pay for him to live?


Thank you. This monster lived far too long on our tax-payer's dime.


Simply keeping him locked up would have been cheaper than the fail prone and expensive process of getting him murdered by the state. So that is actually an argument against capital punishment.

ltbewr wrote:
Three men have been executed by the US Federal government this week.


A conspiracy to kill a defenseless person has been carried out, that is murder aside of convinient "unless we say it isn't murder" laws written by murderers, just like the Taliban do. No meaningful differences between those two aside of the arbitrary definition of justified.

The average time between the date of their crimes and execution is 24 years which raises serious questions as to the rush to do their executions now. Perhaps it to 'look tough on crime' in an election year, to get them done before Democratic Joe Biden becomes President and stops the execution or maybe to use the death drugs before they expire.


All state sponsored murders are political marketing, there is no other kind.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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