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aschachter
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Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:33 pm

I cannot believe there has been another passenger opening the Emergency Exit for some fresh air.... This time a Ukrainian Airlines Aircraft and she actually went for a walk on the wing....

https://simpleflying.com/uia-passenger-on-wing/
 
dopplerd
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:16 am

Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 am

dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.


Do 737s have slides under the wings?
 
Judge1310
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:40 am

dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.



Ummm, calm down there. The B738 trailing edge of the wings are low enough where an evac directs to sit and slide of the back of the wing.
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:53 am

hOMSaR wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.


Do 737s have slides under the wings?


On the 737s the forward and aft doors are equipped with slides, but the overwing exits are not. There is a height specified in the regulations that determines whether nor not slides are required for an exit door, and on the 737 if the flaps are extended and the passengers directed to go down the flaps then technically that puts the overwing exits below the height at which slides are required.
 
dopplerd
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:54 am

Judge1310 wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.



Ummm, calm down there. The B738 trailing edge of the wings are low enough where an evac directs to sit and slide of the back of the wing.

Interesting. I didn't know the 737 didn't have wing slides.

Given some of the people I've seen on a 737 any drop more than about 8 inches would be a challenge.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:23 am

dopplerd wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.



Ummm, calm down there. The B738 trailing edge of the wings are low enough where an evac directs to sit and slide of the back of the wing.

Interesting. I didn't know the 737 didn't have wing slides.

Given some of the people I've seen on a 737 any drop more than about 8 inches would be a challenge.

The Airbus sits higher, so it's got overwing slides. The 737 sits much lower, and therefore has never needed them (along with the CRJ, ERJ, DC9/MD80/717). The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors), and people evacuate on the back of the wing. That's why arrows are painted on the wings.



 
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DocLightning
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:33 am

atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.
 
andz
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:59 am

DocLightning wrote:
Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

When I have had an overwing exit seat with such doors the instruction was to release the door and throw it forward outside.
 
VHOGU
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:22 am

DocLightning wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

737NG and Max have overwing exits that flip up outwards. I believe 737 100/200/300/400/500 have removable plug type.
 
V220
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:48 am

Don't know about 100/200 and MAX but Classic have plug type removable doors and NG have flip up doors.
 
smi0006
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:02 am

VHOGU wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

737NG and Max have overwing exits that flip up outwards. I believe 737 100/200/300/400/500 have removable plug type.



Can these doors/exits be closed and operated as normal again? Or are they single use without engineering checks? I’d be mighty pissed if my flight was cancelled as someone decided they wanted a selfie on the wing, and engineers had to inspect the exits!!
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:40 am

The flight deck shouldn't be the only place on the plane with windows that can open on the ground.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:56 am

DocLightning wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.


The very first few 737NGs had plug type over-wing exit doors, but these were modified to the current standard in short order.

It's been many years, but IIRC, the newer style (NG and Max) "gull-wing" doors are not hydraulic, rather it's a simple - but strong - spring. They're also relatively easy to reset into position (got to do that a few times as an Instructor before we received our door trainer).
 
VHOGU
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 am

smi0006 wrote:
VHOGU wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

737NG and Max have overwing exits that flip up outwards. I believe 737 100/200/300/400/500 have removable plug type.



Can these doors/exits be closed and operated as normal again? Or are they single use without engineering checks? I’d be mighty pissed if my flight was cancelled as someone decided they wanted a selfie on the wing, and engineers had to inspect the exits!!

I’m not sure if it’s mandatory, but at my airline we opened the overwing exit of an actual 738 in training, the crew trainers told me an engineer has to come and inspect it before the aircraft can be cleared to go back to flying. You can just reach up and close them. They have a velcro cover over a pull down strap if I remember correctly.
 
FlyingColours
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 am

The 737-100/200/300/400/500 have removable plug doors (as does the Airbus A320) while the 600/700/800/900 have the flip up doors.

As the 737 sits lower to the ground it does not have any slides for the overwing exits, the Airbus A320 does have a slide which deploys automatically as soon as the first overwing exit door is opened. There is a video on youtube which covers this in good detail - https://youtu.be/OUgrYGTaOUk

*Former Cabin Crew trained on the 737-300/400/800/900ER and A320 ;)

As for the woman, hopefully she will be punished accordingly for such stupidity.

EDIT: Adding link for 737NG O/W door operation video: https://youtu.be/6RULALwUizg

Phil
FlyingColours
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:08 am

At least, she had the sense to wait until the plane was on the ground..although clearly I dont recommend anyone do this specially if the engines were still running...it doesnt say in the article if they were or not....
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:17 am

andz wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

When I have had an overwing exit seat with such doors the instruction was to release the door and throw it forward outside.


It seems to depend on the carrier (or maybe the country's regulatory authority). With "plug" window exits I've seen instructions to do both, either throw it onto the wing or place it on the cabin seat. Quite frankly neither are ideal situations, it's either a potential hazard that impedes access to the exit or a potential trip hazard on the wing. The 737-NG/Max windows that flip up seem like a much better idea.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:17 am

FlyHossD wrote:
The very first few 737NGs had plug type over-wing exit doors, but these were modified to the current standard in short order.

It's been many years, but IIRC, the newer style (NG and Max) "gull-wing" doors are not hydraulic, rather it's a simple - but strong - spring. They're also relatively easy to reset into position (got to do that a few times as an Instructor before we received our door trainer).

Interesting, I had just assumed it was a hydraulic piston, but a spring actually makes more sense.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:08 am

DocLightning wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

I remember most US airlines 15 years ago or so told passengers to just throw the door outside the aircraft.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:43 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
andz wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

When I have had an overwing exit seat with such doors the instruction was to release the door and throw it forward outside.


It seems to depend on the carrier (or maybe the country's regulatory authority). With "plug" window exits I've seen instructions to do both, either throw it onto the wing or place it on the cabin seat. Quite frankly neither are ideal situations, it's either a potential hazard that impedes access to the exit or a potential trip hazard on the wing. The 737-NG/Max windows that flip up seem like a much better idea.


Yeah, assuming the doors aren't blocked in any way from them opening out enough.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:26 am

FlyingColours wrote:
The 737-100/200/300/400/500 have removable plug doors (as does the Airbus A320) while the 600/700/800/900 have the flip up doors.


The A321neo overwing exits are also the flip-up type. A lot of operators have deactivated one, or both, of these pairs. I don't think the other members of the A320neo family have them. I assume regulators required them to certify the changes to the A321 exit layout and the higher capacity. On the face of it the flip-up exits do seem safer. I believe that Boeing introduced them to get the 738 to 189 seats. At the time I believe that Airbus objected to the 738 having higher capacity compared to the A320.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:27 am

I've often wondered why its not a requirment that one of the CC sit near the overwing exits during take-off and landing.

I remember once on a Fokker 100 they had a fixed jump seat. And in the early days of Air Europe's 737400 operations, one of the CC would sit in a passenger seat (load permitting) ajacent to the overwing exits during take-off and landing.

There used to be a forward facing pull out jump seat ajacent to the rear toilets on A320's, but I rarely see them these days. In a emergency evacuation where passengers are up and in the isles (and no doubt grabbing their baggage from the overhead bins) there's no time for that crew member to reach the overwing area, and your average passenger surely can't be expected to make judgment call's, in the chaos, as to whether its safe to evacuate that exit (fire etc ), or to know what to do if the slide didnt inflate - hooking it to the wing - for example!
 
Max Q
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:43 am

IIRC those redesigned ‘gull wing’ doors on the 737NG came about due to concerns during certification with the older, somewhat clumsy plug type slowing evacuation times while they were unlocked, removed and set aside



The upward and outward opening doors simplified and sped up opening these emergency exit doors
 
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Polot
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:59 am

BrianDromey wrote:
The A321neo overwing exits are also the flip-up type. A lot of operators have deactivated one, or both, of these pairs. I don't think the other members of the A320neo family have them.

Correct, it is actually noticeable as the overwing exits on the A321ACF are slightly larger than the exits on the A320neo, presumably because of the hinge and hydraulics/spring/whatever they use. The A220 also has swing up over wing exits. I doubt the old plug doors you have to manually throw out of the way would pass current regulations.

Officially the EASA (or JAA, not sure if EASA was around yet then) was the one who was against Boeing’s originally request for higher capacity with the plug doors on the 737NG, yet oddly had no issue later certifying the A320 to ever higher passenger counts with the plug exits, so you can draw your own conclusions.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:40 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
The very first few 737NGs had plug type over-wing exit doors, but these were modified to the current standard in short order.

It's been many years, but IIRC, the newer style (NG and Max) "gull-wing" doors are not hydraulic, rather it's a simple - but strong - spring. They're also relatively easy to reset into position (got to do that a few times as an Instructor before we received our door trainer).

Interesting, I had just assumed it was a hydraulic piston, but a spring actually makes more sense.

In that video from
FlyingColours wrote:
EDIT: Adding link for 737NG O/W door operation video: https://youtu.be/6RULALwUizg
, it sure sounds like it has an hydraulic device.
 
2175301
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
In that video from
FlyingColours wrote:
EDIT: Adding link for 737NG O/W door operation video: https://youtu.be/6RULALwUizg
, it sure sounds like it has an hydraulic device.


Actually, that sounds like a shock absorber. Adding a shock absorber (which is a hydraulic/pneumatic action piston in a cylinder) to slow the action of a spring is common.

Have a great day,
 
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Tugger
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:22 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
In that video from
FlyingColours wrote:
EDIT: Adding link for 737NG O/W door operation video: https://youtu.be/6RULALwUizg
, it sure sounds like it has an hydraulic device.

I believe that sound is hydraulic, but to slow the opening of the door and keep it from slamming up under a free sprung force.
Kinda like doors that have a hydraulic piston to slow their closing.

Tugg
 
aeromoe
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm

DocLightning wrote:
...to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.


Thankfully never been in that situation after 757 logged flights. Not sure anywhere on a safety card is it specified visually or written, or orally by the cabin crew to "calmly raise the armrests..." Then again, I've never been in that situation. :white:
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 pm

dopplerd wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.



Ummm, calm down there. The B738 trailing edge of the wings are low enough where an evac directs to sit and slide of the back of the wing.

Interesting. I didn't know the 737 didn't have wing slides.

Given some of the people I've seen on a 737 any drop more than about 8 inches would be a challenge.
Because people who ride on Airbus 320s are somehow just in better physical shape?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:46 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
I remember most US airlines 15 years ago or so told passengers to just throw the door outside the aircraft.


I think you're right. But back in the 1980's and 1990's I distinctly remember NW's DC-9 safety cards showing the passenger calmly setting the window on the seats.
 
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T18
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:52 pm

DocLightning wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
I remember most US airlines 15 years ago or so told passengers to just throw the door outside the aircraft.


I think you're right. But back in the 1980's and 1990's I distinctly remember NW's DC-9 safety cards showing the passenger calmly setting the window on the seats.

I can't help but to think I'd be prone to just take the door with me, but I'm not a normal person as it is.
 
Antarius
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:56 am

Max Q wrote:
IIRC those redesigned ‘gull wing’ doors on the 737NG came about due to concerns during certification with the older, somewhat clumsy plug type slowing evacuation times while they were unlocked, removed and set aside



The upward and outward opening doors simplified and sped up opening these emergency exit doors


I agree these are better, but several aircraft have plug doors on the wing. The a320, the ERJ-140, CR7 etc all have them.

This lady is lucky she was on a model without a slide though.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:32 am

hOMSaR wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Interesting that the slide didn't blow. The airline might have some explaining to do as well.


Do 737s have slides under the wings?

No
 
strfyr51
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:42 am

DocLightning wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The 737 has hydraulic exit doors that open upward (as opposed to removable plug doors)


That wasn't always the case, was it? Didn't it used to be that the windows opened inward and you were meant to rest the window on the seat while you made your way out? Strikes me as a rotten idea, given the chaos that could erupt in the cabin after an emergency landing, to ask passengers to calmly raise the armrests and gently place the plug on the exit row seats.

Boeing installed the hinge doors because the door is a structural part of the fuselage and when an emergency Exit happens the door is removed into the airplane which could cause a hazard in exiting the cabin and damage to the airplane if the door is thrown out of the airplane and damaged. The hinged door precludes all of that.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:41 am

E135/40/45 all say to chuck it out onto the wing....
 
889091
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:25 pm

so technically, you could pop one of those 737 (post Classic) overwing exit doors open in flight? The Jurrasic and Classics had the older 'plug' type hatches which would render opening them after pressurization, almost an impossibility.
 
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Polot
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:46 pm

889091 wrote:
so technically, you could pop one of those 737 (post Classic) overwing exit doors open in flight? The Jurrasic and Classics had the older 'plug' type hatches which would render opening them after pressurization, almost an impossibility.

They have locks.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:36 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
The A321neo overwing exits are also the flip-up type. A lot of operators have deactivated one, or both, of these pairs. I don't think the other members of the A320neo family have them. I assume regulators required them to certify the changes to the A321 exit layout and the higher capacity.


You can only have one deactivated. There is no configuration offered with both deactived. These are the possible configurations:

Front and rear door always activated plus:

- one overwing exit = 165 passengers max
- two overwing exits = 195 passengers max
- one overwing exit and door 3 = 210 passengers max
- two overwing exits and door 3 = 240 passengers max

The other A32Xneos have the standard A320/19/18 type of overwing exits.
 
Max Q
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Problem with those older plug type ‘doors’ is they can hinder evacuation, the process of removing these bulky, quite heavy hatches is time consuming and clumsy especially for an average passenger and once it is removed it may well obstruct the the very exit theyre trying to get out of while figuring out what to do with it
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:11 pm

I remember hearing the A220, née C-Series, has a cockpit switch to open the exits in addition to opening at the exit itself
 
889091
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:13 pm

Polot wrote:
889091 wrote:
so technically, you could pop one of those 737 (post Classic) overwing exit doors open in flight? The Jurrasic and Classics had the older 'plug' type hatches which would render opening them after pressurization, almost an impossibility.

They have locks.


Judging by the posted video, the woman managed to deactivate the locks herself and go for a walkabout on the wing. If so, what's to prevent a passenger with malicious intent from doing so at cruising altitude?
 
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Polot
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:19 pm

889091 wrote:
Polot wrote:
889091 wrote:
so technically, you could pop one of those 737 (post Classic) overwing exit doors open in flight? The Jurrasic and Classics had the older 'plug' type hatches which would render opening them after pressurization, almost an impossibility.

They have locks.


Judging by the posted video, the woman managed to deactivate the locks herself and go for a walkabout on the wing. If so, what's to prevent a passenger with malicious intent from doing so at cruising altitude?

The locks are electronically powered and automatically set by throttle position iirc. The plane in the video was parked, the locks would automatically be deactivated so that the exits could be used in a real emergency. The crew doesn’t press a button to lock/unlock the exits.
 
Sokes
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:08 pm

A long journey starts with a single step. :bouncy:
 
Antarius
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:09 pm

T18 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
I remember most US airlines 15 years ago or so told passengers to just throw the door outside the aircraft.


I think you're right. But back in the 1980's and 1990's I distinctly remember NW's DC-9 safety cards showing the passenger calmly setting the window on the seats.

I can't help but to think I'd be prone to just take the door with me, but I'm not a normal person as it is.


Use it as a sled to go down the wing!
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:26 pm

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
dopplerd wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:


Ummm, calm down there. The B738 trailing edge of the wings are low enough where an evac directs to sit and slide of the back of the wing.

Interesting. I didn't know the 737 didn't have wing slides.

Given some of the people I've seen on a 737 any drop more than about 8 inches would be a challenge.
Because people who ride on Airbus 320s are somehow just in better physical shape?

No because the A320 family are higher off the ground and have wing slides
 
mxaxai
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:51 pm

Polot wrote:
Officially the EASA (or JAA, not sure if EASA was around yet then) was the one who was against Boeing’s originally request for higher capacity with the plug doors on the 737NG, yet oddly had no issue later certifying the A320 to ever higher passenger counts with the plug exits, so you can draw your own conclusions.

What do you mean by "request for higher capacity"? The original 737NG was limited to 189 seats (both the 737-800 and -900), which is only one seat more than the preceding 737-400 with plug doors. Whereas the A320 was limited to 180 for the longest time, and only recently got upgraded to 189 seats. The higher capacity 737-900ER came much later, and the A321 has never had plug doors.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:01 pm

KFLLCFII wrote:
The flight deck shouldn't be the only place on the plane with windows that can open on the ground.

Pretty sure there's opening windows on the flight deck, used mainly for selfies and windscreen cleaning.
 
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Polot
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:36 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Polot wrote:
Officially the EASA (or JAA, not sure if EASA was around yet then) was the one who was against Boeing’s originally request for higher capacity with the plug doors on the 737NG, yet oddly had no issue later certifying the A320 to ever higher passenger counts with the plug exits, so you can draw your own conclusions.

What do you mean by "request for higher capacity"? The original 737NG was limited to 189 seats (both the 737-800 and -900), which is only one seat more than the preceding 737-400 with plug doors. Whereas the A320 was limited to 180 for the longest time, and only recently got upgraded to 189 seats. The higher capacity 737-900ER came much later, and the A321 has never had plug doors.

IIRC the pax-to-exit rules changed slightly in the late 90s/early 90s in Europe, or at least the UK, as a result of the British Airtours fire in MAN in the mid 80s. Boeing was hoping to grandfather the exits through the old rules (that the 737-400 falls under) but the JAA wouldn’t let them (I think this was pre EASA). So they had to redesign the overwing exits, as the JAA gave the new design higher pax-to-exit amounts. The A320 of course was later updated to 189+, and the Neo was allowed to grandfather the exits and their limit. Airbus couldn’t with the A321neoACF because there was never a A321ceo with overwing exits certified that they could grandfather in.

I wouldn’t say there was controversy, but some people at the time thought the JAA was being very selective considering other outdated aspects of the 737 exits design they allowed.
Last edited by Polot on Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Another Passenger Opens Emergency Exit

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:37 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
The flight deck shouldn't be the only place on the plane with windows that can open on the ground.

Pretty sure there's opening windows on the flight deck, used mainly for selfies and windscreen cleaning.

Right. And if passengers had their own windows that they could open on the ground, then there'd be fewer instances of these types of emergency-exit (and slide-deployment) incidents.

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