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johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu May 27, 2021 1:39 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The USS Lexington is an icon for Corpus Christi, self sufficient and in good shape structurally despite having no real connection for Corpus.


No real connection to Corpus Christi, aside from the frequent visits to the area, and the decades spent as a training carrier for naval aviators based in Corpus Christi...

Does the USS Lexington have more of a connection with Corpus Christi than the Queen Mary does for Long Beach?
Yes, many times more. Not to mention that most people find naval ships more interesting than commercial ships.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1949
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu May 27, 2021 6:35 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

No real connection to Corpus Christi, aside from the frequent visits to the area, and the decades spent as a training carrier for naval aviators based in Corpus Christi...

Does the USS Lexington have more of a connection with Corpus Christi than the Queen Mary does for Long Beach?
Yes, many times more. Not to mention that most people find naval ships more interesting than commercial ships.

What are some examples of connections to Corpus Chriwti that the USS Lexington has?
 
FGITD
Posts: 1769
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu May 27, 2021 6:56 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Does the USS Lexington have more of a connection with Corpus Christi than the Queen Mary does for Long Beach?
Yes, many times more. Not to mention that most people find naval ships more interesting than commercial ships.

What are some examples of connections to Corpus Chriwti that the USS Lexington has?


As mentioned...USS Lexington routinely visited the area, and played a major role in training naval aviators from that area. I’m sure there was a decent size group of pilots who’s first traps/launches were on her.

RMS Queen Mary showed up in Long Beach one day. That’s the extent of her history there.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1949
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu May 27, 2021 6:58 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Yes, many times more. Not to mention that most people find naval ships more interesting than commercial ships.

What are some examples of connections to Corpus Chriwti that the USS Lexington has?


As mentioned...USS Lexington routinely visited the area, and played a major role in training naval aviators from that area. I’m sure there was a decent size group of pilots who’s first traps/launches were on her.

RMS Queen Mary showed up in Long Beach one day. That’s the extent of her history there.

Did USS Midway extensively visit San Diego during it's naval career?
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu May 27, 2021 11:05 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
What are some examples of connections to Corpus Chriwti that the USS Lexington has?


As mentioned...USS Lexington routinely visited the area, and played a major role in training naval aviators from that area. I’m sure there was a decent size group of pilots who’s first traps/launches were on her.

RMS Queen Mary showed up in Long Beach one day. That’s the extent of her history there.

Did USS Midway extensively visit San Diego during it's naval career?
Yes! San Diego is the biggest naval base on the Pacific coast. It is also much larger than Pearl Harbor.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 4:37 am

Were the fairly large number of liners that were prematurely scrapped due the oil crisis of the 1970's broken up well before the end of their design life. Examples of ships less than 20 years old that were scrapped during this time include the Empress of England, Iberia, Chusan, and Northern Star which was actually built in 1962 and scrapped in 1976. Are the ships that are currently being prematurely scrapped like Costa Victoria and Carnival Inspiration, which would be 25 years of age now being scrapped long before the the end of their structural life. Despite the large number of 1950's ships scrapped during the 1970's oil crisis, there were quite a lot of ocean liners from the 1950's like the Kenya Castle, Empress of Britain, and the Saxonia class ships that were converted to cruise ships and sailed or lasted 40-50 years before being scrapped. There were many 1960's ocean liners converted to cruise ships like the Kungsholm, SS Norway, Transvaal Castle, and Sagafjord that sailed or lasted 40-50 years before being scrapped. Many late 1960's purpose built cruise ships like the Aegean Queen sailed over 40 years before being scrapped and the same can be said for many 1970's purpose built cruise ships like the two Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Nordic Prince, and the cheaply built Cunard Adventurer. The Tropicale sailed almost 40 years before being scrapped, but Song of America, Celestyal Crystal, and Saga Sapphire are still scheduled to return to sailing once the all clear is given despite being about 40 years of age already. So, are the ships currently being scrapped prematurely, which were built in the late 1980's and 1990's well before the end of their economic design life and was it the same with the ships scrapped prematurely during the 1970's oil crisis, some less than 20 years old at the time.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 12:30 pm

The economic life of the ship is only one consideration. The other is whether the ship has the amenities that customers want and how much the renovation would cost to bring it up to modern standards. Cruising is mainly a First World thing, so there is a very limited market for selling outdated vessels to other markets.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 6:29 pm

johns624 wrote:
The economic life of the ship is only one consideration. The other is whether the ship has the amenities that customers want and how much the renovation would cost to bring it up to modern standards. Cruising is mainly a First World thing, so there is a very limited market for selling outdated vessels to other markets.


And as is clear to most members in this discussion, no one is booking a cruise because the ship is 50 years old and “has a little life left in her!”

Look no further than the posts about actually cruising. Everyone is looking at the new ships, comparing amenities, etc. Not one is in search of an old ocean liner that lacks every possible feature that’s standard in modern vessels
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 7:05 pm

FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The economic life of the ship is only one consideration. The other is whether the ship has the amenities that customers want and how much the renovation would cost to bring it up to modern standards. Cruising is mainly a First World thing, so there is a very limited market for selling outdated vessels to other markets.


And as is clear to most members in this discussion, no one is booking a cruise because the ship is 50 years old and “has a little life left in her!”

Look no further than the posts about actually cruising. Everyone is looking at the new ships, comparing amenities, etc. Not one is in search of an old ocean liner that lacks every possible feature that’s standard in modern vessels

The Costa Victoria had similar amenities, decor, and number of balconies as Sea Princess and Sun Princess and these ships were all of similar age and about the same size. Yet, Costa Victoria is being scrapped while Sun Princess and Sea Princess are going to secondhand lines. This is where things become hard to understand.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 7:49 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The economic life of the ship is only one consideration. The other is whether the ship has the amenities that customers want and how much the renovation would cost to bring it up to modern standards. Cruising is mainly a First World thing, so there is a very limited market for selling outdated vessels to other markets.


And as is clear to most members in this discussion, no one is booking a cruise because the ship is 50 years old and “has a little life left in her!”

Look no further than the posts about actually cruising. Everyone is looking at the new ships, comparing amenities, etc. Not one is in search of an old ocean liner that lacks every possible feature that’s standard in modern vessels

The Costa Victoria had similar amenities, decor, and number of balconies as Sea Princess and Sun Princess and these ships were all of similar age and about the same size. Yet, Costa Victoria is being scrapped while Sun Princess and Sea Princess are going to secondhand lines. This is where things become hard to understand.
Simple. Somebody wanted and had the money for 2 old ships, not 3. Maybe the two that were bought were recently overhauled and the Costa ship was due for and expensive overhaul.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 7:57 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

And as is clear to most members in this discussion, no one is booking a cruise because the ship is 50 years old and “has a little life left in her!”

Look no further than the posts about actually cruising. Everyone is looking at the new ships, comparing amenities, etc. Not one is in search of an old ocean liner that lacks every possible feature that’s standard in modern vessels

The Costa Victoria had similar amenities, decor, and number of balconies as Sea Princess and Sun Princess and these ships were all of similar age and about the same size. Yet, Costa Victoria is being scrapped while Sun Princess and Sea Princess are going to secondhand lines. This is where things become hard to understand.
Simple. Somebody wanted and had the money for 2 old ships, not 3. Maybe the two that were bought were recently overhauled and the Costa ship was due for and expensive overhaul.

The Sun Princess went to Peace Boat, while Sea Princess went to a startup line in China. Costa Victoria had been overhauled quite recently as well and shortly before COVID-19, was rumored to be going to the now shut down Jalesh Cruises as their second ship.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri May 28, 2021 8:17 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Costa Victoria had similar amenities, decor, and number of balconies as Sea Princess and Sun Princess and these ships were all of similar age and about the same size. Yet, Costa Victoria is being scrapped while Sun Princess and Sea Princess are going to secondhand lines. This is where things become hard to understand.
Simple. Somebody wanted and had the money for 2 old ships, not 3. Maybe the two that were bought were recently overhauled and the Costa ship was due for and expensive overhaul.

The Sun Princess went to Peace Boat, while Sea Princess went to a startup line in China. Costa Victoria had been overhauled quite recently as well and shortly before COVID-19, was rumored to be going to the now shut down Jalesh Cruises as their second ship.
There's your answer right there.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat May 29, 2021 3:10 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Costa Victoria had similar amenities, decor, and number of balconies as Sea Princess and Sun Princess and these ships were all of similar age and about the same size. Yet, Costa Victoria is being scrapped while Sun Princess and Sea Princess are going to secondhand lines. This is where things become hard to understand.
Simple. Somebody wanted and had the money for 2 old ships, not 3. Maybe the two that were bought were recently overhauled and the Costa ship was due for and expensive overhaul.

The Sun Princess went to Peace Boat, while Sea Princess went to a startup line in China. Costa Victoria had been overhauled quite recently as well and shortly before COVID-19, was rumored to be going to the now shut down Jalesh Cruises as their second ship.
Overhaul in 2013 is meaningless... Carnival Fantasy underwent a heavy drydock upgrade in 2019... And where is it now? Begins with No and ends with Where... It's gone... Refit meant nothing in the end to the scrappers torches.

Ships get sold like any other object... They are worth what someone will pay and if that is from an operator or a scrapper is irrelevant to the process. The owner cares about things like return on investment, long term costs and future income potential... Those figures get chewed on by people and computers until they decide what they want to do. So it was decided that the Victoria was better sold for scrap than kept in storage... And up on the sand she goes. Victoria sold to Jayesh, then that fell through... Only real offers on the reauction were from scrappers.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:06 am

FGITD wrote:
It would appear the Queen Mary is once again in more trouble than previously thought.

I just don’t see a way back for her. $23 million, basically just to keep her afloat. Remove the oceanliner-nostalgia glasses, and imagine the proposal of trying to sell a hotel that never makes money, has higher than usual maintenance costs, and right from the outset needs at least $23mil in repairs.

Good luck with that...

https://abc7.com/business/queen-mary-in ... /10661953/

It’s very difficult to drum up business for these types of places, and in my opinion it's because people are too far removed from them and their history. Big passenger ships are for fun trips these days. There's a waning number of people who traveled on the ocean liners and have those memories. For everyone else, it's just an old ship

There have been so many reports about the condition of the Queen Mary that it is hard to keep up with postings on this thread.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:03 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
It would appear the Queen Mary is once again in more trouble than previously thought.

I just don’t see a way back for her. $23 million, basically just to keep her afloat. Remove the oceanliner-nostalgia glasses, and imagine the proposal of trying to sell a hotel that never makes money, has higher than usual maintenance costs, and right from the outset needs at least $23mil in repairs.

Good luck with that...

https://abc7.com/business/queen-mary-in ... /10661953/

It’s very difficult to drum up business for these types of places, and in my opinion it's because people are too far removed from them and their history. Big passenger ships are for fun trips these days. There's a waning number of people who traveled on the ocean liners and have those memories. For everyone else, it's just an old ship

There have been so many reports about the condition of the Queen Mary that it is hard to keep up with postings on this thread.


Queen Mary should also go to the scrappers, except her hull in poor condition, she wouldn't survive the tow, they will probably scrap her in place. the 23m covers urgent repairs the bill to restore her is somewhere from 200m to 500m
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:23 am

As luck would have it, the LA Times ran an article on her just the other day

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... port-shows

The basic gist of it seems very simple. Spend a massive amount of money to fix the ship right now, or she's finished. And to make it more interesting, they can't sell the lease, can't open her, and pretty much can't do anything. Even the city government that always comments on how important she is to the area won't spend any money.

I think the point of no return has long since passed this ship. She will be scrapped in Long Beach and most likely soon.

Next up is most likely the SS United States.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:41 pm

FGITD wrote:
As luck would have it, the LA Times ran an article on her just the other day

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... port-shows

The basic gist of it seems very simple. Spend a massive amount of money to fix the ship right now, or she's finished. And to make it more interesting, they can't sell the lease, can't open her, and pretty much can't do anything. Even the city government that always comments on how important she is to the area won't spend any money.

I think the point of no return has long since passed this ship. She will be scrapped in Long Beach and most likely soon.

Next up is most likely the SS United States.
The United States is a messy situation ownership wise that's about all that protects her.... She should of been cut up 30 years ago realistically.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:57 am

northstardc4m wrote:
She should of been cut up 30 years ago realistically.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Blasphemy!!! :lol:
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:57 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
FGITD wrote:
As luck would have it, the LA Times ran an article on her just the other day

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... port-shows

The basic gist of it seems very simple. Spend a massive amount of money to fix the ship right now, or she's finished. And to make it more interesting, they can't sell the lease, can't open her, and pretty much can't do anything. Even the city government that always comments on how important she is to the area won't spend any money.

I think the point of no return has long since passed this ship. She will be scrapped in Long Beach and most likely soon.

Next up is most likely the SS United States.
The United States is a messy situation ownership wise that's about all that protects her.... She should of been cut up 30 years ago realistically.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


I've read that the US is somewhat the opposite problem of the Queen Mary. QM looks good, but falling apart, US looks bad, but is actually structurally sound
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:06 am

I've caved. Have been saving for a house purchase, but can't stand these 4 walls any longer, so blowing a months (and a bit of the next) savings on a UK cruise on Celebrity Silhouette this July.

Have been onboard a few times but, as die hard NCL fan, never sailed with them so will be nice to try something different. Plus, she's recently been "revolutionised" so she'll be looking good. I'd considered a UK break but the value was incredible..we've got Aqua Class with drinks, wifi, tips and £80 of free parking, plus no single supplements for around £180 a night. 5* hotel on the coast in high season could easily cost more than that this year so feels like an absolute bargain. The added bonus is that I'll see a couple of new places too, fingers crossed.

Can't wait.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:11 am

MSC Virtuosa denied entry to Greenock

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ck-3265549

Seems crazy. You can go to a restaurant in Scotland without being tested. You can go to cinema, gym, hotel without being tested. You can do those same things, on a ship, after one or more tests, and do so only with other people who are the same, and the Scottish government deem that too risky.

The ironic thing is that you can also drive down from Scotland to Liverpool in about 4 hours, enjoy your cruise, and drive back, all without additional checks beyond what the cruise line will insist upon.

Cruise industry really doesn't have many friends in politics.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:45 pm

The Carnival Fascination is currently undergoing refurbishment in China to begin cruise service out of Mainland China as the Century Harmony. The new owner of the ship, Century Cruises already operates six other cruise ships and the Carnival Fascination is their largest ship. This is some good news considering the other Fantasy class ships withdrawn from the Carnival fleet are being scrapped. Makes me wonder why Carnival Fascination was spared from the breakers and has further life left.
https://www.cruisehive.com/sold-carniva ... hina/51238
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:32 pm

New Royal Caribbean ship to be named Icon of the Seas

Royal Caribbean International has revealed that its next ship will be named Icon of the Seas during the vessel’s steel-cutting ceremony at the Meyer Turku shipyard in Finland.

Among the attendees at the ceremony were Richard Fain, chairman and CEO of Royal Caribbean Group; Michael Bayley, president and CEO of Royal Caribbean International; and Tim Meyer, CEO of Meyer Turku.

www.cruiseandferry.net/articles/new-roy ... the-seas-1
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:13 am

Just back off a simulation cruise onboard Anthem of the Seas. Have to say it was wonderful to be back onboard a ship and out at sea. Was only around 700 onboard so it was pretty quiet.

Felt very secure with the way they have set up the ship. You would see them strip a table down to bare, sanitise it and remake it, plus spray the chairs too. Food is served to you in the buffet and you were forced through the handwashing station before being let in (should have always been the case). As with on land, tables are spaced / blocked for distancing, as are seats in the theatre.

There were definitely changes to the usual experience - it wasn't as before. You needed to make friends with the app and use it for viewing menus, booking tables at shows and for restaurants (and even Windjammer buffet) although turning up without a reservation was never a problem. Some of the ability to be spontaneous has gone but otherwise, most of what made a cruise a great holiday was there.

Can't wait for a 'proper' cruise now..two weeks and counting to Celebrity Silhouette.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:04 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/trave ... -industry/

A very much first stab at summarizing a variety of issues involving the cruise industry in Seattle/SE Alaska. I think you will find it a worthwhile and easy read.
 
Ken777
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:55 am

FGITD wrote:
na wrote:

It's not an important landmark. It's a ship. One that has been sitting at a pier, in a city it never visited, losing money, for longer than it was ever in service. Apply that logic to any other business and try to rationalize it.


I was in the Navy, serving on the USS Long Beach (CG(N)9), when the Queen came in. We were naturally the "Official Welcoming Ship" amid the mass of small ships that went out to see/greet her.

I was also able to see here when she was moved into dry dock - I should have brought a Brownie as I didn't have a camera at the time. To be honest she was more impressive in dry dock and her coming home. Her pax were very unhappy with the sailing as the Queen sailed through the hot weather through the Equator (in two directions) and even in Long Beach. The lovely lady was HOT. Damn Hot. But that happens when you don't have working AC units!

It's still a day I'll remember for the rest of my life!
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:17 pm

The MS Albatros has been sold for scrap after plans to turn the ship into a floating hotel in Hurghada, Egypt failed. The ship will be heading to Alang for breaking up after a stop in Jeddah. Wish this ship became a floating botique hotel as planned like the MV Bore and MV Doulos successfully did.
https://www.cruiseharbournews.com/albatrosscrap.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Bore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Doulos_Phos
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:26 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The MS Albatros has been sold for scrap after plans to turn the ship into a floating hotel in Hurghada, Egypt failed. The ship will be heading to Alang for breaking up after a stop in Jeddah. Wish this ship became a floating botique hotel as planned like the MV Bore and MV Doulos successfully did.
https://www.cruiseharbournews.com/albatrosscrap.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Bore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Doulos_Phos


What’s special about her that makes her worth saving, she was an old ship built for a Cruise Line which has long faded from most people’s memory, if they every knew the line existed until the first place. She doesn’t mean anything to anyone, anymore.
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:31 pm

One poster thinks that every old ship should be converted to a hotel or museum.

Fact is that if enough customers would pay to stay or visit, then it would happen.

Clearly that is not the world as we know it.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:06 pm

bennett123 wrote:
One poster thinks that every old ship should be converted to a hotel or museum.

Fact is that if enough customers would pay to stay or visit, then it would happen.

Clearly that is not the world as we know it.

The plan for Albatros was a botique hotel along the lines of the MS Bore or MV Doulos.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:26 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
One poster thinks that every old ship should be converted to a hotel or museum.

Fact is that if enough customers would pay to stay or visit, then it would happen.

Clearly that is not the world as we know it.

The plan for Albatros was a botique hotel along the lines of the MS Bore or MV Doulos.


She's significantly larger than either of those vessels, the maintenance would be expense, these sorts of projects just don't stack up. Look at the mess that's been made of Queen Mary, it's going to cost hundreds of millions to bring her up to decent standard. It's just not worth it.
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:04 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
One poster thinks that every old ship should be converted to a hotel or museum.

Fact is that if enough customers would pay to stay or visit, then it would happen.

Clearly that is not the world as we know it.

The plan for Albatros was a boutique hotel along the lines of the MS Bore or MV Doulos.


I wonder how long it will be before tourism returns to Hurgurdha.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:29 am

bennett123 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
One poster thinks that every old ship should be converted to a hotel or museum.

Fact is that if enough customers would pay to stay or visit, then it would happen.

Clearly that is not the world as we know it.

The plan for Albatros was a boutique hotel along the lines of the MS Bore or MV Doulos.


I wonder how long it will be before tourism returns to Hurgurdha.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt


Some tourism is clearly there now, even though it's a presumably low season (too hot):
http://hurghada-airport.co.uk/flight-status.htm
 
Drafran
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:51 am

Frankly, if the City of Long Beach would put something down there with her might give her more of a fighting chance. Put me on the list to save her. I have toured her twice and was fascinated. I have also had her fabulous Sunday buffet. I remember the one time going down to see the propeller and feeling a little creepy as I think I was down there on my own. With acknowledgment to the QE2, QM is the last GREAT ocean liner. She's what's left of an era. I admit I am an ocean liner (and airliner) geek, and this might be coming from someone less than objective, but I wish we could have saved them all. But we can't, so let's keep the one we can.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:32 am

I’m a fan of ocean liners and preservation of history, but Queen Mary is beyond out of control

“The council was presented with three options to consider: preserving the ship for the next 25 years at a cost of $150 million to $175 million; preserving the ship for the next 100 years, which would require moving the ship to a dry dock for repairs at a total cost of $200 million to $500 million; or retiring and dismantling or sinking the ship at a cost of $105 million to $190 million.“


I’m sorry, but $150 to $175 million to preserve her for 25 years is absolutely insane. Up to $500 million for 100 years is even crazier. And those are just estimates, which given how these projects traditionally go…it would probably be at least double that.

Maybe instead once a year every Long Beach tax payer could go down and throw a $5 bill into the ocean. Probably a better value
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:37 am

FGITD wrote:
I’m a fan of ocean liners and preservation of history, but Queen Mary is beyond out of control

“The council was presented with three options to consider: preserving the ship for the next 25 years at a cost of $150 million to $175 million; preserving the ship for the next 100 years, which would require moving the ship to a dry dock for repairs at a total cost of $200 million to $500 million; or retiring and dismantling or sinking the ship at a cost of $105 million to $190 million.“


I’m sorry, but $150 to $175 million to preserve her for 25 years is absolutely insane. Up to $500 million for 100 years is even crazier. And those are just estimates, which given how these projects traditionally go…it would probably be at least double that.

Maybe instead once a year every Long Beach tax payer could go down and throw a $5 bill into the ocean. Probably a better value

The HMS Victory was in a similar state 100 years ago and scrapping was considered before the historical significance of that ship was realized. This was despite the economic toll that both World War One and the Spanish Flu Pandemic caused on Britain. Queen Mary has an even bigger role and even helped to shorten World War 2 by a year. Also had a big role in peacetime, in particular transporting Winston Churchill.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:02 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
I’m a fan of ocean liners and preservation of history, but Queen Mary is beyond out of control

“The council was presented with three options to consider: preserving the ship for the next 25 years at a cost of $150 million to $175 million; preserving the ship for the next 100 years, which would require moving the ship to a dry dock for repairs at a total cost of $200 million to $500 million; or retiring and dismantling or sinking the ship at a cost of $105 million to $190 million.“


I’m sorry, but $150 to $175 million to preserve her for 25 years is absolutely insane. Up to $500 million for 100 years is even crazier. And those are just estimates, which given how these projects traditionally go…it would probably be at least double that.

Maybe instead once a year every Long Beach tax payer could go down and throw a $5 bill into the ocean. Probably a better value

The HMS Victory was in a similar state 100 years ago and scrapping was considered before the historical significance of that ship was realized. This was despite the
economic toll that both World War One and the Spanish Flu Pandemic caused on Britain. Queen Mary has an even bigger role and even helped to shorten World War 2 by a year. Also had a big role in peacetime, in particular transporting Winston Churchill.


Surely you jest?? You cannot compare HMS Victory to RMS Queen Mary, that’s just impossible. First of all Victory was the flagship for Nelson and participated in one of the RN’s most decisive thrashings of the French, Nelson also died on board, she is 3000 tons of oak, she’s pretty easy to repair when necessary, she lives in a drydock, she’s also a commissioned warship and is the flag ship of the First Sea Lord, the Queen Mary is none of these things, she needs to go to the breakers.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:57 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

Surely you jest?? You cannot compare HMS Victory to RMS Queen Mary, that’s just impossible. First of all Victory was the flagship for Nelson and participated in one of the RN’s most decisive thrashings of the French, Nelson also died on board, she is 3000 tons of oak, she’s pretty easy to repair when necessary, she lives in a drydock, she’s also a commissioned warship and is the flag ship of the First Sea Lord, the Queen Mary is none of these things, she needs to go to the breakers.


Good luck. This thread is 300+ posts of mostly arguing that exact point.

Interesting conundrum Long Beach has gotten themselves into though. Queen Mary would cost a fortune to scrap or sink as well.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:55 pm

Drafran wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Drafran wrote:

Allow me to remind you of a little company called Disney that ran the attraction at one time. Rumor has it, it's still around. :wave:


I think that might prove my point in a more solid way. If a company with pockets as deep as Disney gets out of the lease as quickly as they did, it’s not a good sign. Granted, they had much more ambitious plans than just running it as a hotel. But all the same, they realized this ship wasn't going to make them money


Without knowing the specifics around Disney's decision to bail, I'm not going to comment. I agree that, on the face of it, the fact that "this ship wasn't going to make them money" could have been the reason they metaphorically made for the lifeboats, however, I sincerely doubt a company like Disney, whom you have to reasonably believe had access to all the facts before getting involved initially, just decided that running Queen Mary wasn't going to work for them.

A similar set if circumstances that doomed the DisneySea project in Long Beach caused Disney to abandon plans for a patriotic theme park near Washington, DC a few years later.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:22 am

So which cruise ships don't deserve to be saved then?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:17 pm

zkojq wrote:
So which cruise ships don't deserve to be saved then?


There aren’t any cruise ships that deserve to be saved, they almost all end up becoming white elephants and as they age become more expensive to maintain than they make as a converted hotel, they are ships and need to be maintained as a ship. It wouldn’t surprise me in 20 years time Queen Elizabeth 2 will end up in a breakers yard.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:54 am

My question was tongue in cheek
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:47 am

zkojq wrote:
My question was tongue in cheek


I gathered that, my point still stands there isn’t a cruise vessel afloat today that deserves being kept as a museum or hotel once it economic life is over.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:11 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
zkojq wrote:
My question was tongue in cheek


I gathered that, my point still stands there isn’t a cruise vessel afloat today that deserves being kept as a museum or hotel once it economic life is over.


Disagree - MS Lofoten deserves to be hauled out at Stokmarknes and plunked next to MS Finnmarken. The key being of course that it wouldn't be in the water and having the associated ongoing maintenance challenges.

But other than that I largely agree with you.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:34 am

We caved as well; our family is booked on the Norwegian Joy in late January, in hopes things have smoothed out by then. We'll see, but purchasing the trip insurance wasn't even a question in my mind when walking through the booking path on the NCL website.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:05 pm

zkojq wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
zkojq wrote:
My question was tongue in cheek


I gathered that, my point still stands there isn’t a cruise vessel afloat today that deserves being kept as a museum or hotel once it economic life is over.


Disagree - MS Lofoten deserves to be hauled out at Stokmarknes and plunked next to MS Finnmarken. The key being of course that it wouldn't be in the water and having the associated ongoing maintenance challenges.

But other than that I largely agree with you.


Where would she fit, Finnmarken has been entombed in glass, this has covered the wharf. Lofoten and Nordstjernen are both on the Norwegian historic register, they will probably end up as excursion ships like MS Sandnes which makes excursion from Stavanger.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:46 am

I just received an email from Holland America for my cruise in October - masks will be required in all elevators, entertainment facilities, shops and while entering and exiting the restaurants. Moreover, covid tests will be required within 3 days of the cruise. This is despite the ship requiring all passengers to be vaccinated. So disappointed - time to call and cancel it seems.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:08 am

You think the cruise ship industry will continue to be in a world of hurt? I just started to short the shares of Royal and Norwegian ;)
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:54 am

Dieuwer wrote:
You think the cruise ship industry will continue to be in a world of hurt? I just started to short the shares of Royal and Norwegian ;)


Heeeeeyyyyy! I have Royal shares! Don’t you dare :talktothehand: :wave: I bought them all at an even lower price a few weeks ago - should’ve sold them when I had the chance last week when they were up. Oh well :hissyfit:
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:24 pm

The Carnival Fascination will become the Century Harmomy for a Chinese cruise line and many features will remain intact. That is some good news during the COVID-19 pandemic.
https://www.cruisehive.com/former-carni ... ises/53870
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