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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:02 pm

My own take on it: I don't believe the officer deliberately set out to kill the guy. Looks like he had a difficult case on his hands, got frustrated and snapped. Sad for everyone involved.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:42 am

Braybuddy wrote:
My own take on it: I don't believe the officer deliberately set out to kill the guy. Looks like he had a difficult case on his hands, got frustrated and snapped. Sad for everyone involved.


I think you're being far too kind to him. I'd expect similar situations play out in the US several times every day. He was also training the other officers with him. They were stuck between a rock and a hard place and will face a very hefty punishment. Zero sympathy for Chauvin but perhaps just a smidgen for the others.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:41 am

Virtual737 wrote:
I think you're being far too kind to him. I'd expect similar situations play out in the US several times every day. He was also training the other officers with him. They were stuck between a rock and a hard place and will face a very hefty punishment. Zero sympathy for Chauvin but perhaps just a smidgen for the others.

I always reckon it's a useful exercise to put yourself in the person's shoes when trying to judge a situation. Had I been George Floyd I would not have resisted arrest. From my (very limited) experience of police in the US I know that you do NOT mess around with them. Had I been the arresting officer I doubt I would have gone as far as killing Floyd, but given the circumstances, that is really only in the realm of doubt. I almost certainly would not have put my knee on his neck for nine minutes, but probably would have thumped him at some stage, and that could have had disastrous consequences.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:59 am

Braybuddy wrote:
I always reckon it's a useful exercise to put yourself in the person's shoes when trying to judge a situation. Had I been George Floyd I would not have resisted arrest. From my (very limited) experience of police in the US I know that you do NOT mess around with them.


Wholeheartedly agree. I'd hate to be a police officer in this day and age. So many of even the average Joe on the street have no respect for the position. A police officer in the US is an even bigger turn off.

Braybuddy wrote:
Had I been the arresting officer I doubt I would have gone as far as killing Floyd, but given the circumstances, that is really only in the realm of doubt. I almost certainly would not have put my knee on his neck for nine minutes, but probably would have thumped him at some stage, and that could have had disastrous consequences.


Well therein lies the rub. Mr Floyd's crime was relatively minor (to say the least), Chauvin had at least 2 other officers with him and they knew (or at least should have if they were half way competent) at the point in time that he was on the floor that he was unarmed. Yet here we are debating whether we might have killed him or not? That's how crazy it seems to be in the US. Almost as if it's softly softly or lethal force with nothing in between.

Knowing what Chauvin knew at the time, I would have let Mr Floyd escape (to be captured later) if the only other choice was to kill him.
 
M564038
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:17 pm

These kind of situations are dealt with, even one on one, in care homes, psychiatric hospitals, schools, parents, bouncers in bars by people of all sizes, shapes, genders and training, millions and millions times a day, the world over without weapons or even restraints, and yet there are people trying to excuse this behaviour and result by armed officers outnumbering the victim, because the situation was so stressful and difficult? It was not! Not in a million years was that a particularly difficult situation.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:30 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
Well therein lies the rub. Mr Floyd's crime was relatively minor (to say the least), Chauvin had at least 2 other officers with him and they knew (or at least should have if they were half way competent) at the point in time that he was on the floor that he was unarmed. Yet here we are debating whether we might have killed him or not? That's how crazy it seems to be in the US. Almost as if it's softly softly or lethal force with nothing in between.

I probably phrased that badly. I didn't mean INTENTIONALLY kill him, just that I wouldn't be able to rule it out for certain if I'd snapped. I'm not a physical or violent person, but I remember well an incident when I was 14 and in my first job (things were different then!). One of the guys twice my age kept jabbing me with a metal ruler every time he passed. This happened one time too many, and I remember calmly putting down the tray of printing type I was holding, and the next thing I knew I had him by the collar, pinned to the wall, halfway down the room telling him I'd kill him if he did it again. He never did, and I've never done anything remotely like that since. When you snap you have no control.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:36 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Well therein lies the rub. Mr Floyd's crime was relatively minor (to say the least), Chauvin had at least 2 other officers with him and they knew (or at least should have if they were half way competent) at the point in time that he was on the floor that he was unarmed. Yet here we are debating whether we might have killed him or not? That's how crazy it seems to be in the US. Almost as if it's softly softly or lethal force with nothing in between.

I probably phrased that badly. I didn't mean INTENTIONALLY kill him, just that I wouldn't be able to rule it out for certain if I'd snapped. I'm not a physical or violent person, but I remember well an incident when I was 14 and in my first job (things were different then!). One of the guys twice my age kept jabbing me with a metal ruler every time he passed. This happened one time too many, and I remember calmly putting down the tray of printing type I was holding, and the next thing I knew I had him by the collar, pinned to the wall, halfway down the room telling him I'd kill him if he did it again. He never did, and I've never done anything remotely like that since. When you snap you have no control.


I get you. Hopefully police officers have an expectation of people winding them up and the training to deal with it without snapping.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:57 am

Braybuddy wrote:
My own take on it: I don't believe the officer deliberately set out to kill the guy. Looks like he had a difficult case on his hands, got frustrated and snapped. Sad for everyone involved.


You rhink people don't snap everyday and kill someone or assault someone? That's why these people are in prison.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:31 am

Pellegrine wrote:
You rhink people don't snap everyday and kill someone or assault someone? That's why these people are in prison.

Of course. These situations are always tragic, and completely different from premeditated murder.
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:34 pm

How many cops were on scene and how many tried to stop Chauvin? But, he was just one bad apple....
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:38 pm

Chauvin was just having a bad day. They should have bought him a burger and given him a week or so off to recuperate and then come back to action fighting crime and keeping Americans safe from the real bad guys (MSM).

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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LX015
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:01 am

Braybuddy wrote:
My own take on it: I don't believe the officer deliberately set out to kill the guy. Looks like he had a difficult case on his hands, got frustrated and snapped. Sad for everyone involved.


Sorry, but I have to say that a counterfeit bill is hardly a difficult case. If he got frustrated over this, then he has no business being a police officer. There are more than enough cases of police being faced with literal life & death situations, yet they choose to not kill their suspects. Look at these instances and ask yourself, why didn't the police kill these individuals with the excuse "I feared for my life".

A murder suspect: https://youtu.be/NqnN6OT3IFk

A car jacking suspect that assaulted a police officer: https://youtu.be/09kU0erVW24

Intentionally hit a police officer with a car: https://youtu.be/spxYemp-XwU

Hit and officer in the head with a hammer and dragged him with his truck: https://youtu.be/iJ-1LD-cW_k
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:14 pm

LX015 wrote:
Sorry, but I have to say that a counterfeit bill is hardly a difficult case.

I didn't mean the crime, I meant George Floyd. He was an extremely difficult customer.

LX015 wrote:
If he got frustrated over this, then he has no business being a police officer. There are more than enough cases of police being faced with literal life & death situations, yet they choose to not kill their suspects. Look at these instances and ask yourself, why didn't the police kill these individuals with the excuse "I feared for my life".

I don't see how you can compare those cases with Floyd's. In three the perpertrators were running or driving away, and one was totally zonked. The police were probably reluctant to shoot at the vehicle with one of their buddies trapped on it, and in the last one the car seems to have driven off. The guy who tasered the officer was compliant and no further threat. Just compare those to the George Floyd arrest: you can hear the frustration in officers' voices as they tried to get him to comply with their instructions, which he repeatedly refused to do for ten minutes. Derek Chauvin was stupid to keep his knee on Floyd's neck for nine minutes, but it seems to have been borne more out of sheer frustration than anything else. The bodycam footage clearly shows that up to then they all acted reasonably when trying to deal with a man who was being extremely difficult. How many of us can honestly say we'd keep our cool trying to restrain someone for a full ten minutes?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/georg ... eased.html
 
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LX015
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:39 pm

I can compare them ro show the ubsurdness in how the instances I provided, these people (who should be considered armed and dangerous) actually attacked police officers, but were taken into custody unharmed. Where Floyd maybe resisted briefly and ends up dead.
There are more than enough instances of police not being the slightest bit reluctant to fire their weapons. I have to honestly say, you are being quite forgiving to these individuals attacking police officers.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:57 am

LX015 wrote:
I can compare them ro show the ubsurdness in how the instances I provided, these people (who should be considered armed and dangerous) actually attacked police officers, but were taken into custody unharmed. Where Floyd maybe resisted briefly and ends up dead.
There are more than enough instances of police not being the slightest bit reluctant to fire their weapons. I have to honestly say, you are being quite forgiving to these individuals attacking police officers.

In all those cases the police didn't fire their weapons, which is good, and all four were arrested. There's no indication of how the suspects were arrested, so it's impossible to compare them with Floyd's. That arrest would seem to be textbook -- indeed exemplary -- until the moment Chauvin stupidly put his knee on Floyd's neck.

All those cases just go to show what a difficult job the police in the US have, and what exactly they have to deal with.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:54 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
You rhink people don't snap everyday and kill someone or assault someone? That's why these people are in prison.

Of course. These situations are always tragic, and completely different from premeditated murder.


Well, I agree with you there.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed May 12, 2021 11:04 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

I think he looked shocked when the guilty verdict was read. His eyes were darting around uncontrollably.


I disagree. Just because you have eyes moving around like he did in this video does not mean he is freaking out. His eyes moving the way it was seems like a normal response to me. People react differently to things, yes, but his body language told me that he didn't care. I am not surprised at his reaction.

Video here. See for yourself. He was basically motionless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZqvslc_ZMc


At the 4:30 mark, I wonder what that guy was saying to Chauvin.


Either "Call me once you get settled" or "Don't drop the soap". One of the two, probably.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:01 pm

Sentence is out - Chauvin convicted to 22.5 years for the murder of George Floyd.
 
Cadet985
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:18 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
Sentence is out - Chauvin convicted to 22.5 years for the murder of George Floyd.


He got off easy, and I say that as a staunch police supporter (and someone who works for a police department). That said, he’ll either have to be sent to the SuperMax or spend those 22.5 years in solitary.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:46 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:
Sentence is out - Chauvin convicted to 22.5 years for the murder of George Floyd.


He got off easy, and I say that as a staunch police supporter (and someone who works for a police department). That said, he’ll either have to be sent to the SuperMax or spend those 22.5 years in solitary.

He'll likely serve 15 years (Minnesota inmates must serve 2/3rds of there sentence before supervised release).

15 years before possible supervised release is still fairly substantial. The presumptive sentence from what I've read for a crime like this is 12.5 years, so it's clear that the judge did add 10 years to the sentence for aggravating factors.

The sentencing memo is here:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ncing.html
 
chimborazo
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:00 am

I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:35 am

Well different policing might also help curb crime don't you think ? Like happened in Camden, N.J.
 
GDB
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:35 am

chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


While I agree substantially, on the sentence, on the very (thankfully) different approaching to policing here, I would suggest the case of Daniel Morgan shines a very bad light on leading members as well as detectives in London's Met Police.
A murder 34 years ago, five investigations, no convictions, deep involvement in cover ups, corrupt officers and the current head of the Met even obstructing an inquiry ordered by the then Home Secretary.

It's been all over the news recently, starting with the current Home Sec, someone as dumb and nasty enough to fit right in with the GOP in the US in the Trump era, delaying the reports release claiming (falsely either due to her inherent stupidity or political reasons, or both), that the report, already vetted, needed to be checked for human rights violations (that's a laugh coming from her).
I would suggest her and her government's fear was the links between the murder, police cover up and what the suspects did next, make a ton of money working for the criminal organisation known as anything run by Rupert Murdoch.

This is not well known outside the UK, or until recently inside and we are going off topic, so;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Daniel_Morgan

I would also recommend the Channel 4 three part doc, Murder In The Car Park.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:38 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
I always reckon it's a useful exercise to put yourself in the person's shoes when trying to judge a situation. Had I been George Floyd I would not have resisted arrest. From my (very limited) experience of police in the US I know that you do NOT mess around with them.


Wholeheartedly agree. I'd hate to be a police officer in this day and age. So many of even the average Joe on the street have no respect for the position. A police officer in the US is an even bigger turn off.

Braybuddy wrote:
Had I been the arresting officer I doubt I would have gone as far as killing Floyd, but given the circumstances, that is really only in the realm of doubt. I almost certainly would not have put my knee on his neck for nine minutes, but probably would have thumped him at some stage, and that could have had disastrous consequences.


Well therein lies the rub. Mr Floyd's crime was relatively minor (to say the least), Chauvin had at least 2 other officers with him and they knew (or at least should have if they were half way competent) at the point in time that he was on the floor that he was unarmed. Yet here we are debating whether we might have killed him or not? That's how crazy it seems to be in the US. Almost as if it's softly softly or lethal force with nothing in between.

Knowing what Chauvin knew at the time, I would have let Mr Floyd escape (to be captured later) if the only other choice was to kill him.




Why don’t people have respect for the position? Could it be that decades of bad cops killing innocent people and abusing their power have turned people off? Maybe it’s the us vs. them attitude? Maybe it’s the fact that law enforcement in the US doesn’t even rank within the top 10 most dangerous jobs yet we have cops using excessive force that doesn’t match the threat? Authorities need to earn the respect of the people. It’s not just given simply because you have a gun and a badge.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:42 pm

chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.



Yah, except it’s not just one or two bad apples. What a silly statement that diminishes a major problem. We don’t care what people in the UK are sick of listening to. Change the channel.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:05 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
We don’t care what people in the UK are sick of listening to. Change the channel.


Doesn't that thought process and the extension of it become part of the problem? You don't care what people in the UK think can easily extend to you don't care what people in the next state think, to you don't care what people who are different in any way think, to you don't care what people who don't agree with your views think.

Anyway, he received a sentence that was probably fitting and considerably above the minimum. His life as he knew it is over, obviously not in the same way as his victim, but it's probably justice. Even better if his actions and the resulting consequences change the thought process of others.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:24 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.



Yah, except it’s not just one or two bad apples. What a silly statement that diminishes a major problem. We don’t care what people in the UK are sick of listening to. Change the channel.


I take your point but it’s difficult when it’s shoved down your throat on EVERY channel, news site.

It’s only a major problem in your country because neither “side” are really doing anything about it. People don’t respect the police anymore, police do things from time to time that further diminish any respect they have left. It’s a vicious circle.

The fact is the vast majority of citizens in any modern country respect the police and the job they do. We can accept there will be bad apples in any organisation. I would be more worried about the criminals than the bad apples. They BOTH need sorting out… but there are many more criminals than bad apples.

Question then: what are YOU doing to change things?
 
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seb146
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:31 pm

chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/
 
chimborazo
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:41 pm

seb146 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


I do agree the conversation needs to happen - everywhere one or another group is picked on because they are different. But also the conversation about WHY are they picked on because they’re different - it’s not just because of racism. It’s because certain parts of society DO commit more crime that others that they (separate to the odd nutter like Chauvin who clearly should have been nowhere near a uniform) have more contact with the police which drives higher potential for things to go wrong (again notwithstanding cases such as this one). An honest conversation needs to be had.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:04 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
I always reckon it's a useful exercise to put yourself in the person's shoes when trying to judge a situation. Had I been George Floyd I would not have resisted arrest. From my (very limited) experience of police in the US I know that you do NOT mess around with them.


Wholeheartedly agree. I'd hate to be a police officer in this day and age. So many of even the average Joe on the street have no respect for the position. A police officer in the US is an even bigger turn off.

Braybuddy wrote:
Had I been the arresting officer I doubt I would have gone as far as killing Floyd, but given the circumstances, that is really only in the realm of doubt. I almost certainly would not have put my knee on his neck for nine minutes, but probably would have thumped him at some stage, and that could have had disastrous consequences.


Well therein lies the rub. Mr Floyd's crime was relatively minor (to say the least), Chauvin had at least 2 other officers with him and they knew (or at least should have if they were half way competent) at the point in time that he was on the floor that he was unarmed. Yet here we are debating whether we might have killed him or not? That's how crazy it seems to be in the US. Almost as if it's softly softly or lethal force with nothing in between.

Knowing what Chauvin knew at the time, I would have let Mr Floyd escape (to be captured later) if the only other choice was to kill him.




Why don’t people have respect for the position? Could it be that decades of bad cops killing innocent people and abusing their power have turned people off? Maybe it’s the us vs. them attitude? Maybe it’s the fact that law enforcement in the US doesn’t even rank within the top 10 most dangerous jobs yet we have cops using excessive force that doesn’t match the threat? Authorities need to earn the respect of the people. It’s not just given simply because you have a gun and a badge.


You miss the irony here in stating that law enforcement is not in the top ten dangerous jobs yet, when the police are confronted with a situation it’s potentially their life on the line. Perhaps you should stand next to the and tell them it’s not even in the top ten dangerous jobs so don’t be excessive when they feel threatened?

To my earlier point: what committees/progress groups are you jointing to change how law enforcement are recruited? What will you do to make them understand that being give a gun and a badge does not earn respect? What about army fatigues abs a gun… do the people given them deserve respect?

I see a lot of hollow black/white view of the world in your posts. The world is not like that. People are for the most part “good”, there are bad elements in all walks of life.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:30 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.



Yah, except it’s not just one or two bad apples. What a silly statement that diminishes a major problem. We don’t care what people in the UK are sick of listening to. Change the channel.


If you don't want police to physically dominate your community (as appointed by duly elected officials under law), who do you want instead to physically dominate your community? Teenagers? Armed vigilantes? You need to pick a side...

I like elected governments rather than teenaged gangs or militiamen making all the rules for me.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2011
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:11 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


Exactly. The media loves to double down on anything racial. BLM brought attention to the cause but have done nothing to help black people. Blacks kill each other at an astounding rate and it doesn't get any attention but let a white officer be involved the media is all over it and marches in the street. BLM is a sham they took the playbook from Al Sharpton plenty of money to be made in race hustle. Nice to see the co founder buying herself all those multi million dollar houses in white neighborhoods. This isn't over for Chauvin he might only serve 15 years for this conviction but there are federal civil rights charges coming at him. Democrats better change their playbook or they are going to get a clock cleaning in 2022. Crime is skyrocketing all over the country. Murders are what up 800% in Portland Or? This is what happens when you let the inmates run the asylum. Cops are quitting in droves and the ones that do stay are looking the other way at crime especially quality of life crimes. Chauvin got what he deserved I am sure his intention wasn't to kill Floyd but he sure didn't have any regard for his well being. Cops put up with a lot of crap but there are a few too many that have the power trip of that badge. Needs to at least be some reforms it's a long time coming.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:23 am

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I’m glad that’s drawn to a close. He got a decent sentence… and will probably get killed or at least seriously harmed inside.
Now we can draw a line and move on to the real problem (at least in UK where many are sick of hearing about BLM news imported from a very different policing system on the other side of the Atlantic ): black on black violence and killings. Only a few weeks ago a prominent BLM activist was shot and nearly died… 4 black men have been arrested in connection with attempted murder. Let’s get top of this and stop focussing on one or two bad apples in the police abs if they are the main problem.


George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


In these cases there is no racism involved, why should BLM protest ?

If BLM leads to better policing, don't you think ridiculous shootings like this of white people could also be avoided ?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23897
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:49 am

Aesma wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


In these cases there is no racism involved, why should BLM protest ?

If BLM leads to better policing, don't you think ridiculous shootings like this of white people could also be avoided ?


Are white people killed by cops for ALLEGEDLY passing a possibly fake $20? Are white people killed by cops in no knock warrants because their ex may have done something so guess we gotta go bust into this apartment? Are white people killed by cops for selling singles?

Also, keep in mind that BLM is for holding cops accountable for their overreach of power. It is not "ONLY Black Lives Matter" because they include ALL police overreach and ALL police brutality and ALL police bullying so that just goes out the window. Nice try, though...
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:55 am

stratosphere wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


Exactly. The media loves to double down on anything racial. BLM brought attention to the cause but have done nothing to help black people. Blacks kill each other at an astounding rate and it doesn't get any attention but let a white officer be involved the media is all over it and marches in the street. BLM is a sham they took the playbook from Al Sharpton plenty of money to be made in race hustle. Nice to see the co founder buying herself all those multi million dollar houses in white neighborhoods. This isn't over for Chauvin he might only serve 15 years for this conviction but there are federal civil rights charges coming at him. Democrats better change their playbook or they are going to get a clock cleaning in 2022. Crime is skyrocketing all over the country. Murders are what up 800% in Portland Or? This is what happens when you let the inmates run the asylum. Cops are quitting in droves and the ones that do stay are looking the other way at crime especially quality of life crimes. Chauvin got what he deserved I am sure his intention wasn't to kill Floyd but he sure didn't have any regard for his well being. Cops put up with a lot of crap but there are a few too many that have the power trip of that badge. Needs to at least be some reforms it's a long time coming.


I kept reading your drivel and almost thought I was going to be disappointed . But you pulled thru for me with a "Democrats" sighting. Thanks Stratosphere! How was the Drumpf Klan rally today in Ohio? Were you able to stream it?
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13583
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:02 pm

Aesma wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

George Floyd is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have tried to pass a fake $20. We won't know because the cop decided to stand on his back for over 9 minutes until he died. Eric Garner is one reason why we need BLM protests. He may or may not have been selling single cigarettes on the sidewalk. We don't know because the cop decided to choke him out until he died.
Brionna Taylor is one reason why we need BLM protests. Her ex-boyfriend was involved with drugs. Cops decided to execute a no-knock warrant on her apartment that has zero to do with him. She died because her then-boyfriend opened fire defending their home.

Black Lives Matter needs to happen. We need to stop celebrating racist cops and actually do something. Protests pointing to this need to happen. Yes the conversation makes people uncomfortable. But it needs to happen.

But don't cry for Chauvin. He will be taken in by the neo-Nazis in prison and probably be hired on by another department when he gets out

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law- ... -policing/


For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


In these cases there is no racism involved, why should BLM protest ?

If BLM leads to better policing, don't you think ridiculous shootings like this of white people could also be avoided ?


Why is Chauvin killing Floyd a racist act? As far as I’m concerned it was a cop going to far, I did see any racial element in it at all, it’s just the media and BLM who have made it one.

Nobody claimed the killing of Justine Diamond was race related, she was white her killer cop was black! One of the cops who killed Timpa was black, was there a racial element or just bad policing in both incidents?
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13583
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

For every George Floyd and Brionna Taylor there’s a Tony Timpa and a Daniel Shaver, the difference is you and the media only give a shit about George and Brionna.

The Daniel Shaver video is horrendous, how those cops were acquitted I don’t know.


In these cases there is no racism involved, why should BLM protest ?

If BLM leads to better policing, don't you think ridiculous shootings like this of white people could also be avoided ?


Are white people killed by cops for ALLEGEDLY passing a possibly fake $20? Are white people killed by cops in no knock warrants because their ex may have done something so guess we gotta go bust into this apartment? Are white people killed by cops for selling singles?

Also, keep in mind that BLM is for holding cops accountable for their overreach of power. It is not "ONLY Black Lives Matter" because they include ALL police overreach and ALL police brutality and ALL police bullying so that just goes out the window. Nice try, though...


Give up Seb you’re losing this battle.

Justine Diamond was killed after she called the police for an intruder, she walked out her door down to the police car where she was shot.

Timpa was killed by police when he called them to help him out, he had gone off his meds, they killed him, that’s worse then being killed for a fake 20.

Shaver was killed for being drunk and trying to do what the cops told him to do, but the sgt kept contradicting himself confusing Shaver, then Rambo with ‘Fuck You’ engraved on his own personal AR-15 shot him 5 times from 3m away.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:36 pm

Do not discuss other users. This is your warning.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Do not discuss other users. This is your warning.


Who is being warned?
 
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seb146
Posts: 23897
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:17 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Justine Diamond was killed after she called the police for an intruder, she walked out her door down to the police car where she was shot.

Timpa was killed by police when he called them to help him out, he had gone off his meds, they killed him, that’s worse then being killed for a fake 20.

Shaver was killed for being drunk and trying to do what the cops told him to do, but the sgt kept contradicting himself confusing Shaver, then Rambo with ‘Fuck You’ engraved on his own personal AR-15 shot him 5 times from 3m away.


They should have followed cop's orders. They would all be alive if they had just done what the cops said. That is the talking point when any minority is murdered by cops.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13583
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:20 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Justine Diamond was killed after she called the police for an intruder, she walked out her door down to the police car where she was shot.

Timpa was killed by police when he called them to help him out, he had gone off his meds, they killed him, that’s worse then being killed for a fake 20.

Shaver was killed for being drunk and trying to do what the cops told him to do, but the sgt kept contradicting himself confusing Shaver, then Rambo with ‘Fuck You’ engraved on his own personal AR-15 shot him 5 times from 3m away.


They should have followed cop's orders. They would all be alive if they had just done what the cops said. That is the talking point when any minority is murdered by cops.


Have you watched the Shaver video, even sober I’d challenge anyone to follow the orders he asked given.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23897
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:31 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Justine Diamond was killed after she called the police for an intruder, she walked out her door down to the police car where she was shot.

Timpa was killed by police when he called them to help him out, he had gone off his meds, they killed him, that’s worse then being killed for a fake 20.

Shaver was killed for being drunk and trying to do what the cops told him to do, but the sgt kept contradicting himself confusing Shaver, then Rambo with ‘Fuck You’ engraved on his own personal AR-15 shot him 5 times from 3m away.


They should have followed cop's orders. They would all be alive if they had just done what the cops said. That is the talking point when any minority is murdered by cops.


Have you watched the Shaver video, even sober I’d challenge anyone to follow the orders he asked given.


But that's the point. EVERY TIME a minority is killed by cops for no reason at all, the right wing reaction is "well.... they should have followed orders..." But, when it is a white person, the reaction is "how can they possibly follow orders?"

Make up your mind.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13583
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

They should have followed cop's orders. They would all be alive if they had just done what the cops said. That is the talking point when any minority is murdered by cops.


Have you watched the Shaver video, even sober I’d challenge anyone to follow the orders he asked given.


But that's the point. EVERY TIME a minority is killed by cops for no reason at all, the right wing reaction is "well.... they should have followed orders..." But, when it is a white person, the reaction is "how can they possibly follow orders?"

Make up your mind.


In Shavers case the orders couldn't have been followed, they were contradictory, in many others cases they appear to be fairly simple, don't move, hands on steering wheel.........My argument is it's not a black issue its an everyone issue, it all comes down to the pro gun, 2A culture in the US, easy access to guns, which results in trigger happy police. Police killing the public is very much a US problem which baffles everyone else living in a developed country.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23897
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:15 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Have you watched the Shaver video, even sober I’d challenge anyone to follow the orders he asked given.


But that's the point. EVERY TIME a minority is killed by cops for no reason at all, the right wing reaction is "well.... they should have followed orders..." But, when it is a white person, the reaction is "how can they possibly follow orders?"

Make up your mind.


In Shavers case the orders couldn't have been followed, they were contradictory, in many others cases they appear to be fairly simple, don't move, hands on steering wheel.........My argument is it's not a black issue its an everyone issue, it all comes down to the pro gun, 2A culture in the US, easy access to guns, which results in trigger happy police. Police killing the public is very much a US problem which baffles everyone else living in a developed country.


It should be noted that more Black people are shot, arrested, and killed for following orders. But, because the one white guy was killed, that totally negates every single Black person ever following orders and being killed or arrested :roll:

EDIT:

Tell us again the firepower George Floyd had on him that he was using against the cops? Tell us again how he was so out of control he HAD to be murdered by Chauvin?
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13583
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:17 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But that's the point. EVERY TIME a minority is killed by cops for no reason at all, the right wing reaction is "well.... they should have followed orders..." But, when it is a white person, the reaction is "how can they possibly follow orders?"

Make up your mind.


In Shavers case the orders couldn't have been followed, they were contradictory, in many others cases they appear to be fairly simple, don't move, hands on steering wheel.........My argument is it's not a black issue its an everyone issue, it all comes down to the pro gun, 2A culture in the US, easy access to guns, which results in trigger happy police. Police killing the public is very much a US problem which baffles everyone else living in a developed country.


It should be noted that more Black people are shot, arrested, and killed for following orders. But, because the one white guy was killed, that totally negates every single Black person ever following orders and being killed or arrested :roll:

EDIT:

Tell us again the firepower George Floyd had on him that he was using against the cops? Tell us again how he was so out of control he HAD to be murdered by Chauvin?


More black people are not killed by police, more white people are killed by US police than black people. It's more than one white guy, it's a lot more, but the media and people like you aren't interested in white people being shot by police.

Tell me what firepower Shaver, Timpa and Diamond had on them and were using against the cops? How out of control were Timpa, Shaver and Diamond that they had to be murdered??? You don't care about them, but you would if they were black!!

You're far to focused on only one aspect of police violence in the US you're missing all the other people they kill, you're just like the media.
 
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OA412
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial Underway

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:05 pm

Thread has veered off topic and devolved into personal attacks.
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