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STT757
Posts: 14575
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:45 pm

What will be the size of compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145
? # CRJ-550
235 ERJ-170/175 (70, 76 seaters)

The single class 50 seaters are still needed for small and EAS markets especially from IAD, DEN etc..
 
codc10
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:30 pm

STT757 wrote:
What will be the size and compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145
? # CRJ-550
235 ERJ-170/175 (70, 76 seaters)

The single class 50 seaters are still needed for small and EAS markets especially from IAD, DEN etc..


UA has contracts on 125 CRJ-700s, of which 106 are ultimately to convert to CR5s, and 19 (SkyWest) will stay in CR7 configuration as long as the current operational restrictions at Aspen are in place (E75 span too large). It's unclear whether those 19 SkyWest frames would ever be eligible to convert to CR5; they'd likely stay in the SkyWest system and I don't think OO wants to fly CR5.

The current pilot agreement allows up to 255 70/76-seaters (153 76-seat, 102 70-seat).
 
joeblow10
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:07 pm

STT757 wrote:
What will be the size and compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145
? # CRJ-550
235 ERJ-170/175 (70, 76 seaters)

The single class 50 seaters are still needed for small and EAS markets especially from IAD, DEN etc..


Considering OO EAS markets will essentially be what’s left of the 50-seater markets - I highly doubt UA will go with all E145s for their 50 seaters. I would have to imagine C5 (like ExpressJet before it) and ZW will likely not be around in the same fashion in 5 years, unless they pick up the EAS slack and OO gets -550s and all the 76 seaters
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3372
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:01 pm

What I show is UA has the following over 50 seats and matches codc10's post for maximum units.
E175: 153, which matches max of 153 76 seat aircraft
E170: 38 (70 seats)
E175SC: 45 (70 seats)
CR7: 19 (70 seats) = 102 70 seat aircraft. Max 102 met.

There are 12 CRJ7s that have been removed form service and destined to be CRJ550s and join a current count of 47 CRJ550.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2074
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:30 pm

STT757 wrote:
What will be the size of compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145


If UA/UAX were to eliminate all the single-class, 50-seaters from the system (E145s + CR2s) are there enough CR7s available throughout the world to convert to CR5s to make up for loss in units? Would regionals need to take a look at turboprops once again to "right size" existing markets or possibly open new markets?
 
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intotheair
Posts: 2069
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:25 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
What I show is UA has the following over 50 seats and matches codc10's post for maximum units.
E175: 153, which matches max of 153 76 seat aircraft
E170: 38 (70 seats)
E175SC: 45 (70 seats)
CR7: 19 (70 seats) = 102 70 seat aircraft. Max 102 met.

There are 12 CRJ7s that have been removed form service and destined to be CRJ550s and join a current count of 47 CRJ550.


I would guess the long term goal would be to get pilots to relent and allow 76 seats on all E175s and perhaps even turn the CRJ550s back into CR7s. Didn’t AA do a similar dance with the E175s?
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:49 pm

intotheair wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
What I show is UA has the following over 50 seats and matches codc10's post for maximum units.
E175: 153, which matches max of 153 76 seat aircraft
E170: 38 (70 seats)
E175SC: 45 (70 seats)
CR7: 19 (70 seats) = 102 70 seat aircraft. Max 102 met.

There are 12 CRJ7s that have been removed form service and destined to be CRJ550s and join a current count of 47 CRJ550.


I would guess the long term goal would be to get pilots to relent and allow 76 seats on all E175s and perhaps even turn the CRJ550s back into CR7s. Didn’t AA do a similar dance with the E175s?


I don’t think the pilots need to relent. There are enough CRJ550 possible aircraft and plenty of E175 routes that can go mainline as aircraft get delivered.

The fares in so many cities now should allow a less than full E175 to more than pay for trip costs plus making high load factor days very profitable.

UAL seems to be making a lot of forward leaning decisions. I trust the current management to do what is right for the company even though I don’t always agree with decisions made at my own home airport.
 
Coalways
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:39 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:41 am

United started refitting the 757-200 with the new AVOD system before the pandemic and stop. Are there plans to start that program back up?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10217
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:16 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
STT757 wrote:
What will be the size of compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145


If UA/UAX were to eliminate all the single-class, 50-seaters from the system (E145s + CR2s) are there enough CR7s available throughout the world to convert to CR5s to make up for loss in units?


Eliminating all single-class isn't the plan. United Next as described in the investor presentation still has ~10% of departures on single class aircraft in 2026.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:14 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
STT757 wrote:
What will be the size of compliment of the UAX fleet minus the 200 50 seaters.

From my estimate looking at their current fleet:

110 single class 50 seaters, hopefully all ERJ-145


If UA/UAX were to eliminate all the single-class, 50-seaters from the system (E145s + CR2s) are there enough CR7s available throughout the world to convert to CR5s to make up for loss in units?


Eliminating all single-class isn't the plan. United Next as described in the investor presentation still has ~10% of departures on single class aircraft in 2026.


Which 50 seater single class aircraft do you expect to survive? The CRJ200 coffin or the ERJ 145?
 
Pinto
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:20 am

sldispatcher wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

If UA/UAX were to eliminate all the single-class, 50-seaters from the system (E145s + CR2s) are there enough CR7s available throughout the world to convert to CR5s to make up for loss in units?


Eliminating all single-class isn't the plan. United Next as described in the investor presentation still has ~10% of departures on single class aircraft in 2026.


Which 50 seater single class aircraft do you expect to survive? The CRJ200 coffin or the ERJ 145?


I would guess the CRJs for two main reasons.

1) The fleet commonality with the CRJ-550/700s.
2) mu understanding is that the CRJs have better shortfield performance compared to the ERJ-145. This is important because of the EAS role they might play.
 
codc10
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:14 am

sldispatcher wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

If UA/UAX were to eliminate all the single-class, 50-seaters from the system (E145s + CR2s) are there enough CR7s available throughout the world to convert to CR5s to make up for loss in units?


Eliminating all single-class isn't the plan. United Next as described in the investor presentation still has ~10% of departures on single class aircraft in 2026.


Which 50 seater single class aircraft do you expect to survive? The CRJ200 coffin or the ERJ 145?


The ERJ-145XRs are owned by UA, are mostly newer and have better performance than the standard ERJs. I suspect the last single cabin 50 seaters in the UA brand will be the XRJs (operated by whomever) and the OO at-risk/EAS CR2s.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10217
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:38 am

sldispatcher wrote:
Which 50 seater single class aircraft do you expect to survive? The CRJ200 coffin or the ERJ 145?


I make no prediction on that one. Ten percent of systemwide departures could mean 500-550 flights/day. How many segments per day were United Express aircraft averaging in 2019?
 
AC4500
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:25 am

In September, I'm seeing the MAX-8 loaded onto IAH-LAS/PDX/SEA.

Are the MAX-8 jets mainly going to be based in Houston?
 
AC4500
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:40 am

I'm also seeing two UA IAH-LAX flights in September that depart and arrive at the same exact time: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... IGCAMQABgA

Different flight numbers (UA 1433 & UA 566), different aircraft types (UA 1433 is a -900 while UA 566 is an -800). Is this just an error in their timetable or are they legitimately offering two flights arriving and departing at the same exact time?
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:32 pm

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N31131 entered revenue service with CommutAir
N14180 entered revenue service with CommutAir

CR5:
N515MJ entered revenue service with GoJet

CR7:
N578GJ (ex-Nordica, 2003 build) leased by GoJet, future CR5 conversion
N579GJ (ex-Nordica, 2003 build) leased by GoJet, future CR5 conversion
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:35 pm

codc10 wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Eliminating all single-class isn't the plan. United Next as described in the investor presentation still has ~10% of departures on single class aircraft in 2026.


Which 50 seater single class aircraft do you expect to survive? The CRJ200 coffin or the ERJ 145?


The ERJ-145XRs are owned by UA, are mostly newer and have better performance than the standard ERJs. I suspect the last single cabin 50 seaters in the UA brand will be the XRJs (operated by whomever) and the OO at-risk/EAS CR2s.


This is my prediction as well. E145s are UA-owned and will likely end up the cheaper option for the majority of flights. The CR2 will stay in smaller numbers to serve the Skywest EAS routes.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:06 pm

Courtesy: Aviation Pros

United to Add 4,000 Jobs, Bigger Planes at SFO as Part of Nationwide Expansion

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/news/21228768/united-to-add-4000-jobs-bigger-planes-at-sfo-as-part-of-nationwide-expansion
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:42 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
Courtesy: Aviation Pros

United to Add 4,000 Jobs, Bigger Planes at SFO as Part of Nationwide Expansion

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/news/21228768/united-to-add-4000-jobs-bigger-planes-at-sfo-as-part-of-nationwide-expansion

Yes - this was discussed last Tuesday. They plan to hire about 25,000 by 2026.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/united- ... order.html
 
SunsetLimited
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:54 pm

AC4500 wrote:
In September, I'm seeing the MAX-8 loaded onto IAH-LAS/PDX/SEA.

Are the MAX-8 jets mainly going to be based in Houston?


Also on IAH-MSY/TPA/MCO.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:12 pm

In the investor presentation it was specific about 50 seater SINGLE CLASS drawdown by 200 units. That could imply 50 seaters replaced by larger OR could a second batch of CRJ550 conversions be on the horizon?
 
codc10
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:27 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
In the investor presentation it was specific about 50 seater SINGLE CLASS drawdown by 200 units. That could imply 50 seaters replaced by larger OR could a second batch of CRJ550 conversions be on the horizon?


UA, through its CR5 contractor (GoJet), has been opportunistically picking up CR7s coming off leases or for sale from carriers around the world, so I think this practice will continue as they are available. But I don't see any large-fleet sources to tap outside of SkyWest, which owns most of its fleet and (IIRC) declined the offer to fly the CR5 for UA with the economics that were on the table.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:49 pm

AC4500 wrote:
In September, I'm seeing the MAX-8 loaded onto IAH-LAS/PDX/SEA.

Are the MAX-8 jets mainly going to be based in Houston?



I'm not 100% sure but I would say it is doubtful they will mainly be baseed at IAH. United is scheduled to take delivery of 15 or so MAX 8s through the remainder of this year I think you will see them based out of at least 2 perhaps even 3 hubs. With United now operating our fleet of 30 MAX 9s out of all our hubs technically we could do the same 15 MAX 8 frames they are nearly identical aircraft.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5108
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:58 pm

United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo
 
AC4500
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:27 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
In September, I'm seeing the MAX-8 loaded onto IAH-LAS/PDX/SEA.

Are the MAX-8 jets mainly going to be based in Houston?


Also on IAH-MSY/TPA/MCO.

And IAH-FLL.
 
audidudi
Posts: 3091
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:14 pm

dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo

Have these routes been temporarily suspended due to poor bookings or something else?
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 7786
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:22 pm

audidudi wrote:
dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo

Have these routes been temporarily suspended due to poor bookings or something else?

Right? Seems pretty odd that a lot of those routes are on that list. The Denver and Houston ones especially worry me.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6725
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:23 pm

since most of those routes are to TPAC region, I would assume most of them have not been operating all this time due to poor demand. Most TPAC countries are still completely shutdown.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1681
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:30 pm

dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo

They are also still making adjustments to the August schedule. My EDI-EWR flight got cancelled.
 
codc10
Posts: 3255
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:01 pm

audidudi wrote:
dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo

Have these routes been temporarily suspended due to poor bookings or something else?


Looks like UA is carrying forward suspensions of routes that were planned to (possibly) start/restart in September to the end of the IATA northern summer season (30OCT).

I say "possibly" because there were a number of flights that UA suspended (thereby taking them out of inventory for sale) for the entire S21 season a few months ago, and these markets were not included. I suspected UA decided not to pull them in the hopes that conditions might allow them to restart, but unfortunately it allowed tickets to be sold for flights that were, month-by-month, taken out of the schedule. Frustrating for the few passengers who might have bought tickets.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6558
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:26 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
audidudi wrote:
dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo

Have these routes been temporarily suspended due to poor bookings or something else?

Right? Seems pretty odd that a lot of those routes are on that list. The Denver and Houston ones especially worry me.


I wouldnt worry about any of these. Demand to Asia is exceptionally poor and thats where most of these are to. IAH-GIG depended largely on Oil and Gas which isnt traveling as much right now but the demand is still there. NH still flies to IAH right now and that should be sufficient until things pick up.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:50 pm

I could see DEN-NRT returning before IAH-NRT when restrictions ease. It may be a while for Asia to reopen to the U.S. so United may not need both routes as they serve similar connection markets. United can easily route connections to Denver when Japan does reopen in the future. United seems focused on Denver and its growing city and economy.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:31 pm

dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo


The only 2 maybe 3 routes United has operated during the pandemic are SFO-PVG, SFO-HND (switched over to NRT), and IAH-GIG, all other routes haven't operated at all during this pandemic as passenger flights. UA is operating LAX/SFO/EWR to NRT the only flight we are operating to HND leaves out of ORD

Australia remains closed will probably stay closed into 2022 so at some point UA will extend the suspension of IAH-SYD, it is also no surprise to see LAX-MEL suspended, SFO-MEL will see its suspension extended as well.

According to the information on Flying Together covering international travel and crew entry restrictions Singapore not only remains closed to Americans but also still will not allow our pilots and flights attendants (American flight crews) entry into the country so it is no surprise SFO-SIN suspension continues. Hong Kong continues with their unreasonable invasive testing requirements upon entry so no surprise there.

EWR-LIM isn't surprising passengers can still get to LIM through IAH which UA has resumed and the IAH flight is on a standard configured 763. With United already operating IAH/EWR-GRU and even weekly ORD-GRU flights we really don't need to resume IAD-GRU at this time. Depending on Brazil's vaccine rollout and demand for travel from the US, I think IAH-GIG may resume in earnest in December.

Mainland China is difficult its become expensive to operate because the flight has to do a tech stop. The crews can't overnight in PVG the reasoning behind the tech stop in ICN has been covered at length in other UA fleet thread that are now archived. Until there is some viable path forward that allows UA to at the very least end the tech stops to China, I think UA may just suspend the route and try to route passengers through NRT on NH or on BR, or CA out of TPE.

I think for both fall and winter 2021/2022 it is clear how UA's long haul network will look, the unknown is what will the long haul network look like starting in spring of 2022? I think the answer to that question really depends on how well vaccines are distributed worldwide and how many people have been vaccinated.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo


Asia is still for the most part closed. Also makes me think that some of the summer European routes that did operate this year will get longer seasons (i.e. EWR-ATH).
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 2069
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:11 pm

Any thoughts on SFO-Europe? I was disappointed that SFO-CDG didn’t seem to come back at all this summer.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4812
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:55 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
I could see DEN-NRT returning before IAH-NRT when restrictions ease. It may be a while for Asia to reopen to the U.S. so United may not need both routes as they serve similar connection markets. United can easily route connections to Denver when Japan does reopen in the future. United seems focused on Denver and its growing city and economy.


Perhaps. There is a lucrative high priority freight contract that really helped the numbers on DEN-NRT; however I have no clue if that specific contract made it through the pandemic.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5108
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:25 am

intotheair wrote:
Any thoughts on SFO-Europe? I was disappointed that SFO-CDG didn’t seem to come back at all this summer.


I believe only FRA, LHR, MUC and TLV are currently operating from SFO. All seem to be doing well except for LHR, still seeing depressed demand.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
I could see DEN-NRT returning before IAH-NRT when restrictions ease. It may be a while for Asia to reopen to the U.S. so United may not need both routes as they serve similar connection markets. United can easily route connections to Denver when Japan does reopen in the future. United seems focused on Denver and its growing city and economy.

I disagree. IIRC, IAH-NRT was one of UA’s most profitable routes. IAH is also in a better connecting area, as it has access to the east coast and LatAm. Due to the higher connecting chances and probability, I believe IAH will resume before DEN. Although NH currently serves IAH-HND, so there’s still a chance DEN might come before IAH, but I highly doubt it.
 
Pinto
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:08 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
I could see DEN-NRT returning before IAH-NRT when restrictions ease. It may be a while for Asia to reopen to the U.S. so United may not need both routes as they serve similar connection markets. United can easily route connections to Denver when Japan does reopen in the future. United seems focused on Denver and its growing city and economy.

I disagree. IIRC, IAH-NRT was one of UA’s most profitable routes. IAH is also in a better connecting area, as it has access to the east coast and LatAm. Due to the higher connecting chances and probability, I believe IAH will resume before DEN. Although NH currently serves IAH-HND, so there’s still a chance DEN might come before IAH, but I highly doubt it.


With the lack of 777s I would be surprised to see either one until we hear something about the PW 777s.
 
airboss787
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:44 pm

jayunited wrote:
dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo


The only 2 maybe 3 routes United has operated during the pandemic are SFO-PVG, SFO-HND (switched over to NRT), and IAH-GIG, all other routes haven't operated at all during this pandemic as passenger flights. UA is operating LAX/SFO/EWR to NRT the only flight we are operating to HND leaves out of ORD

Australia remains closed will probably stay closed into 2022 so at some point UA will extend the suspension of IAH-SYD, it is also no surprise to see LAX-MEL suspended, SFO-MEL will see its suspension extended as well.

According to the information on Flying Together covering international travel and crew entry restrictions Singapore not only remains closed to Americans but also still will not allow our pilots and flights attendants (American flight crews) entry into the country so it is no surprise SFO-SIN suspension continues. Hong Kong continues with their unreasonable invasive testing requirements upon entry so no surprise there.

EWR-LIM isn't surprising passengers can still get to LIM through IAH which UA has resumed and the IAH flight is on a standard configured 763. With United already operating IAH/EWR-GRU and even weekly ORD-GRU flights we really don't need to resume IAD-GRU at this time. Depending on Brazil's vaccine rollout and demand for travel from the US, I think IAH-GIG may resume in earnest in December.

Mainland China is difficult its become expensive to operate because the flight has to do a tech stop. The crews can't overnight in PVG the reasoning behind the tech stop in ICN has been covered at length in other UA fleet thread that are now archived. Until there is some viable path forward that allows UA to at the very least end the tech stops to China, I think UA may just suspend the route and try to route passengers through NRT on NH or on BR, or CA out of TPE.

I think for both fall and winter 2021/2022 it is clear how UA's long haul network will look, the unknown is what will the long haul network look like starting in spring of 2022? I think the answer to that question really depends on how well vaccines are distributed worldwide and how many people have been vaccinated.


Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:29 pm

airboss787 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
dcajet wrote:
United suspended quite a large number of international routes for September and part of October:

Denver - Tokyo Narita
Honolulu - Tokyo Narita
Houston - Rio de Janeiro
Houston - Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles - Melbourne
Los Angeles - Tokyo Haneda
Newark - Lima
Newark - Shanghai
Newark - Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco - Beijing
San Francisco - Hong Kong
San Francisco - Shanghai
San Francisco - Singapore
San Francisco - Tokyo Haneda
Washington Dulles - San Pablo


The only 2 maybe 3 routes United has operated during the pandemic are SFO-PVG, SFO-HND (switched over to NRT), and IAH-GIG, all other routes haven't operated at all during this pandemic as passenger flights. UA is operating LAX/SFO/EWR to NRT the only flight we are operating to HND leaves out of ORD

Australia remains closed will probably stay closed into 2022 so at some point UA will extend the suspension of IAH-SYD, it is also no surprise to see LAX-MEL suspended, SFO-MEL will see its suspension extended as well.

According to the information on Flying Together covering international travel and crew entry restrictions Singapore not only remains closed to Americans but also still will not allow our pilots and flights attendants (American flight crews) entry into the country so it is no surprise SFO-SIN suspension continues. Hong Kong continues with their unreasonable invasive testing requirements upon entry so no surprise there.

EWR-LIM isn't surprising passengers can still get to LIM through IAH which UA has resumed and the IAH flight is on a standard configured 763. With United already operating IAH/EWR-GRU and even weekly ORD-GRU flights we really don't need to resume IAD-GRU at this time. Depending on Brazil's vaccine rollout and demand for travel from the US, I think IAH-GIG may resume in earnest in December.

Mainland China is difficult its become expensive to operate because the flight has to do a tech stop. The crews can't overnight in PVG the reasoning behind the tech stop in ICN has been covered at length in other UA fleet thread that are now archived. Until there is some viable path forward that allows UA to at the very least end the tech stops to China, I think UA may just suspend the route and try to route passengers through NRT on NH or on BR, or CA out of TPE.

I think for both fall and winter 2021/2022 it is clear how UA's long haul network will look, the unknown is what will the long haul network look like starting in spring of 2022? I think the answer to that question really depends on how well vaccines are distributed worldwide and how many people have been vaccinated.


Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!


This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.
 
airboss787
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:17 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The only 2 maybe 3 routes United has operated during the pandemic are SFO-PVG, SFO-HND (switched over to NRT), and IAH-GIG, all other routes haven't operated at all during this pandemic as passenger flights. UA is operating LAX/SFO/EWR to NRT the only flight we are operating to HND leaves out of ORD

Australia remains closed will probably stay closed into 2022 so at some point UA will extend the suspension of IAH-SYD, it is also no surprise to see LAX-MEL suspended, SFO-MEL will see its suspension extended as well.

According to the information on Flying Together covering international travel and crew entry restrictions Singapore not only remains closed to Americans but also still will not allow our pilots and flights attendants (American flight crews) entry into the country so it is no surprise SFO-SIN suspension continues. Hong Kong continues with their unreasonable invasive testing requirements upon entry so no surprise there.

EWR-LIM isn't surprising passengers can still get to LIM through IAH which UA has resumed and the IAH flight is on a standard configured 763. With United already operating IAH/EWR-GRU and even weekly ORD-GRU flights we really don't need to resume IAD-GRU at this time. Depending on Brazil's vaccine rollout and demand for travel from the US, I think IAH-GIG may resume in earnest in December.

Mainland China is difficult its become expensive to operate because the flight has to do a tech stop. The crews can't overnight in PVG the reasoning behind the tech stop in ICN has been covered at length in other UA fleet thread that are now archived. Until there is some viable path forward that allows UA to at the very least end the tech stops to China, I think UA may just suspend the route and try to route passengers through NRT on NH or on BR, or CA out of TPE.

I think for both fall and winter 2021/2022 it is clear how UA's long haul network will look, the unknown is what will the long haul network look like starting in spring of 2022? I think the answer to that question really depends on how well vaccines are distributed worldwide and how many people have been vaccinated.


Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!


This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.


Exactly. Seeing as the list does not include the route and it would’ve made sense to add it to the list if it were suspended further makes me believe it may be starting back up.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6558
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:30 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
I could see DEN-NRT returning before IAH-NRT when restrictions ease. It may be a while for Asia to reopen to the U.S. so United may not need both routes as they serve similar connection markets. United can easily route connections to Denver when Japan does reopen in the future. United seems focused on Denver and its growing city and economy.


Well, you once suggested UA cut IAH as a hub completely and abandon Latin America so I can only assume you dont know much about this part of the country. IAH and DEN are both the best hubs UA has right now.

IAH has a lot more local demand than DEN to Asia, but Asia as a whole is hurting. IAH also has NH which DEN does not which may or may not factor into a decision.

Which one comes back first will depend on whether the main issue is domestic connections which would bode better for DEN or O&D and international connections which would bode better for IAH.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:06 pm

Our July bidding is open and we receive an email from the Union with regards to FAQs, changes and other pertinent info. Interestingly, the email from the LEC in Chicago stated that for the month of August, we will be the number one hub in being the largest and busiest operation in the system.

Very exciting news! Though I have to admit I was surprised considering how strong IAH and DEN have been and continue to be. But I’m really happy ORD is coming back fairly quickly after being (understandably) cut pretty deeply throughout the last year.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 25653
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:59 pm

Bit update on PW 777s from last weeks townhall.

Q. What is the latest on the Pratt & Whitney powered 777s?
A. We are still moving toward a technical solution with Boeing, Pratt and the FAA to return the PW 777 airplanes to service as soon as possible. Progress is slow but steady.
 
User avatar
psa1011
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:04 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The only 2 maybe 3 routes United has operated during the pandemic are SFO-PVG, SFO-HND (switched over to NRT), and IAH-GIG, all other routes haven't operated at all during this pandemic as passenger flights. UA is operating LAX/SFO/EWR to NRT the only flight we are operating to HND leaves out of ORD

Australia remains closed will probably stay closed into 2022 so at some point UA will extend the suspension of IAH-SYD, it is also no surprise to see LAX-MEL suspended, SFO-MEL will see its suspension extended as well.

According to the information on Flying Together covering international travel and crew entry restrictions Singapore not only remains closed to Americans but also still will not allow our pilots and flights attendants (American flight crews) entry into the country so it is no surprise SFO-SIN suspension continues. Hong Kong continues with their unreasonable invasive testing requirements upon entry so no surprise there.

EWR-LIM isn't surprising passengers can still get to LIM through IAH which UA has resumed and the IAH flight is on a standard configured 763. With United already operating IAH/EWR-GRU and even weekly ORD-GRU flights we really don't need to resume IAD-GRU at this time. Depending on Brazil's vaccine rollout and demand for travel from the US, I think IAH-GIG may resume in earnest in December.

Mainland China is difficult its become expensive to operate because the flight has to do a tech stop. The crews can't overnight in PVG the reasoning behind the tech stop in ICN has been covered at length in other UA fleet thread that are now archived. Until there is some viable path forward that allows UA to at the very least end the tech stops to China, I think UA may just suspend the route and try to route passengers through NRT on NH or on BR, or CA out of TPE.

I think for both fall and winter 2021/2022 it is clear how UA's long haul network will look, the unknown is what will the long haul network look like starting in spring of 2022? I think the answer to that question really depends on how well vaccines are distributed worldwide and how many people have been vaccinated.


Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!


This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.


Isn't it kind of a misrepresentation to sell a non-stop, most likely at a premium, when UA knows there's a good chance the flight won't even operate?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3514
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:20 pm

psa1011 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
airboss787 wrote:

Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!


This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.


Isn't it kind of a misrepresentation to sell a non-stop, most likely at a premium, when UA knows there's a good chance the flight won't even operate?


Every airline sells routes on base schedules months out that adjust closer in - particularly noticeable during the pandemic. Are you saying that even that is a misrepresentation?
 
LHUSA
Posts: 848
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:23 pm

psa1011 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
airboss787 wrote:

Does this mean ORD-DEL will be restarting as per schedule on Aug 1? I see tickets available and they’re rather cheap!


This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.


Isn't it kind of a misrepresentation to sell a non-stop, most likely at a premium, when UA knows there's a good chance the flight won't even operate?


We’re coming out of a global pandemic. People seem to be forgetting that. Markets can disappear or develop overnight. Look at Europe, most flights are full (aside from LHR) - LFs jumped over 40 points in a matter of 10 days. United and other airlines are not operating by their normal playbooks, even still.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:53 pm

LHUSA wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:

This route was suspended due to the Covid situation in India - if they continue to stabilize, my guess is the route will resume. There is really no downside to leaving it open for sale as they can rebook pax thru ewr/sfo if needed.


Isn't it kind of a misrepresentation to sell a non-stop, most likely at a premium, when UA knows there's a good chance the flight won't even operate?


We’re coming out of a global pandemic. People seem to be forgetting that. Markets can disappear or develop overnight. Look at Europe, most flights are full (aside from LHR) - LFs jumped over 40 points in a matter of 10 days. United and other airlines are not operating by their normal playbooks, even still.



I don't relish the job of the route planners or the revenue management department. Domestic airfares are sky high out of my market (SHV) with UAL sometimes in the 100% to 150% above competitor airfares. I get what they are doing with that, but man..it hurts to try to be loyal and I have had to stray the last two ticket purchases because I can't justify a $500/person premium for 6 tickets just to fly United.

At any rate, demand seems to continue to grow. Somewhere in revenue management, they are getting the sense of the rate of business travel return (and regardless of what others say, my humble opinion is that it is going to be far stronger than expected). I have my first conference now scheduled to attend in November.

Best wishes to all of the frontline folks dealing with the public and generous pats on the back for the behind the scenes people working hard to put the planes back in the sky.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q3 2021

Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:18 am

Acey559 wrote:
Our July bidding is open and we receive an email from the Union with regards to FAQs, changes and other pertinent info. Interestingly, the email from the LEC in Chicago stated that for the month of August, we will be the number one hub in being the largest and busiest operation in the system.

Very exciting news! Though I have to admit I was surprised considering how strong IAH and DEN have been and continue to be. But I’m really happy ORD is coming back fairly quickly after being (understandably) cut pretty deeply throughout the last year.


Right now all 3 hubs are all neck and neck in terms of total departures.

With our non-holiday July schedule ORD will really catch up to both DEN and IAH in terms of total departures, in both May and June UA at ORD really lagged behind DEN and IAH by over 100 daily departures but in July of the 480+ daily flights UA added to the schedule over 100 daily flights were added out of ORD alone. DEN was supposed to hit 100% of their pre-pandemic departures with the July schedule but once July ends DEN will average around 487 daily departures, IAH will average 467 daily departures and ORD will average around 482 daily departures.

However during the craziness over the 4th of July travel weekend all 3 hubs temporarily exceed 500 daily departures.

Things at ORD are really heating up and I think UA wants to keep ahead of AA at ORD so instead of getting DEN to 100% we are now going to focus on building up ORD.
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