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qf789
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Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:12 pm

Qantas has today announced their group results

$2.35 billion statutory loss before tax
2 A380’s be retired leaving 10 in fleet
5 A380’s to return to service to LAX and LHR from mid 2022
Some international services to return from Dec 21 while others are pushed back to Apr 22
Working with Airbus to extend range of some A330’s for US flights from BNE
3 787-9’s to be delivered FY23
A321neoLR’s for JQ will start arriving from FY23


https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -of-covid/

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... l-flights/
 
Opus99
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:18 pm

I believe 350-1000 still remains preferred aircraft for sunrise and sunrise still planning to go ahead
 
FSDan
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:44 pm

qf789 wrote:
Working with Airbus to extend range of some A330’s for US flights from BNE


That's interesting. Is that referring to some of their current 332s/333s, or to a potential future A330neo order?

For reference, BNE-SFO is 7063 mi, and BNE-LAX is 7161 mi. Not sure what the world's longest A330ceo flight is currently.
 
redroo
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:45 pm

Guess that’s to use the existing A332 for BNE LAX
 
soyuz
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:46 pm

I still can’t fathom how they intend to fill those A380s less than 12 months from now. A lot of planets will have to align for this pipe dream to become reality. Come next northern summer, I will not at all be disappointed if my skepticism is proved wrong. And what’s the reason behind A332 BNE-USA? Surely there would be enough 787s in the fleet to fly those routes.
 
majano
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:47 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas has today announced their group results

$2.35 billion statutory loss before tax
2 A380’s be retired leaving 10 in fleet
5 A380’s to return to service to LAX and LHR from mid 2022
Some international services to return from Dec 21 while others are pushed back to Apr 22
Working with Airbus to extend range of some A330’s for US flights from BNE
3 787-9’s to be delivered FY23
A321neoLR’s for JQ will start arriving from FY23


https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -of-covid/

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... l-flights/

So horrible to comment on financial results in the prevailing circumstances. The proposed deployment of the A330 to routes such as Brisbane - San Francisco caught my attention. How modern are Qantas' A330-200s? How much work or what type of work will it take to give them the extra range for the new role? Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:48 pm

FSDan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Working with Airbus to extend range of some A330’s for US flights from BNE


That's interesting. Is that referring to some of their current 332s/333s, or to a potential future A330neo order?

For reference, BNE-SFO is 7063 mi, and BNE-LAX is 7161 mi. Not sure what the world's longest A330ceo flight is currently.


It’s referring to the existing fleet, only A330-200’s
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:48 pm

I'm pleasantly surprised at their optimism. I would've expected maybe 6 A380 to come back at best, with the rest scrapped. Only 2 going to the scrappers suggests they see a strong recovery. Well done ( and I hope they're right )
 
Pcoder
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:04 am

In regards to the a330-200 upgrades, Qantas has 6 aircraft under 11 years and it youngest is under 9 (VH-EBV). So i'd imagine a few of these younger models will get the upgrades.

I think upgrading these a330s for the routes out of Brisbane is probably a good decision as these a330s still have plenty of life in them and the Brisbane market is probably not large enough to require the large planes.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:05 am

Which of the A380s had been modified or were in process when travel screeched to a halt? I suspect the two being retired are those not modified. (At the time, 3 had received a new interior and 3 were receiving a new interior.)
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:12 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised at their optimism. I would've expected maybe 6 A380 to come back at best, with the rest scrapped. Only 2 going to the scrappers suggests they see a strong recovery. Well done ( and I hope they're right )


It is optimistic i agree, I hope they are right aswell. AJ has always said he sees a market for them, all 12 which has been revised to 10.
 
jayunited
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:18 am

soyuz wrote:
I still can’t fathom how they intend to fill those A380s less than 12 months from now. A lot of planets will have to align for this pipe dream to become reality. Come next northern summer, I will not at all be disappointed if my skepticism is proved wrong. And what’s the reason behind A332 BNE-USA? Surely there would be enough 787s in the fleet to fly those routes.


There could be some overwhelming demand for travel to/from Australia if only short period of time once Australia fully reopens their borders without any restrictions.

Think about it most Australians have been dealing with some type of restriction on international travel since March of 2020. There are families who have been separated because some family members live in Australia others live here in the US and they haven't seen each other in person for over a year. I could be wrong but I think once Australia fully reopens without any restrictions demand for travel will be initially and primarily driven by families and friends who have been separated from each other and there are a lot of people who fall into that category. After the initial surge in travel there might be a drop in demand around July and August of 2022 but as we get closer to/November/December/January of 2022/23 the demographic of who is traveling will begin to include more and more tourist.

In terms of tourist demand by November/December of 2022 Australia could easily become the next Hawaii, Iceland, Italy, or Athens where demand for leisure travel is overwhelmingly strong. (However now we have the governor of Hawaii telling tourist not to come, hopefully once reopened Australia won't tell tourist not to come.)
 
FSDan
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:18 am

majano wrote:
Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?


If they're planning to keep 10 388s long term, I could see the eventual deployments being SYD-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-LAX, and MEL-SIN (that would require 8 frames, leaving 2 spares). In that scenario, SYD-DFW would possibly become a 789 route, which could be one reason to want to replace 789s on shorter routes from BNE with 332s.

Also remember the 744s were parked during the pandemic, so systemwide there are more routes that could need the 789s to backfill. Some of that could also definitely come from cuts elsewhere (unfortunately, I'm not confident BNE-ORD will come back anytime soon, and routes like MEL-SFO could also be on the chopping block).
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:19 am

majano wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas has today announced their group results

$2.35 billion statutory loss before tax
2 A380’s be retired leaving 10 in fleet
5 A380’s to return to service to LAX and LHR from mid 2022
Some international services to return from Dec 21 while others are pushed back to Apr 22
Working with Airbus to extend range of some A330’s for US flights from BNE
3 787-9’s to be delivered FY23
A321neoLR’s for JQ will start arriving from FY23


https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -of-covid/

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... l-flights/

So horrible to comment on financial results in the prevailing circumstances. The proposed deployment of the A330 to routes such as Brisbane - San Francisco caught my attention. How modern are Qantas' A330-200s? How much work or what type of work will it take to give them the extra range for the new role? Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?


There will be plenty of short to medium term changes to the network, QF's younger A332s are 238T and are less than 10 years old, 6 frames, they had looked at the use of A330s on BNE-US routes when they had a shortage of A380/744s a few years ago before they got the 789s and also possibly when AKL-LAX was dropped, it was an A330 that did LAX-JFK from AKL. Possibly a W cabin added, to reduce the seat count a little overall? The 789s will be needed on longer routes now that the 744 has been retired.
 
ZKCIF
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:19 am

How restrictive is Australia about covid? I somehow get an impression that the restrictions are so crazy that tourism is nonexistent right now and will not be viable some time in the future as well.
am I correct?
If I am correct, will business travel and cargo be enough to support all these flights?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:23 am

FSDan wrote:
majano wrote:
Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?


If they're planning to keep 10 388s long term, I could see the eventual deployments being SYD-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-LAX, and MEL-SIN (that would require 8 frames, leaving 2 spares). In that scenario, SYD-DFW would possibly become a 789 route, which could be one reason to want to replace 789s on shorter routes from BNE with 332s.

Also remember the 744s were parked during the pandemic, so systemwide there are more routes that could need the 789s to backfill. Some of that could also definitely come from cuts elsewhere (unfortunately, I'm not confident BNE-ORD will come back anytime soon, and routes like MEL-SFO could also be on the chopping block).

Why would a core route like MEL-SFO be on the chopping block when it's stated that they are still intending to fly BNE-SFO?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:23 am

FSDan wrote:
majano wrote:
Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?


If they're planning to keep 10 388s long term, I could see the eventual deployments being SYD-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-LAX, and MEL-SIN (that would require 8 frames, leaving 2 spares). In that scenario, SYD-DFW would possibly become a 789 route, which could be one reason to want to replace 789s on shorter routes from BNE with 332s.

Also remember the 744s were parked during the pandemic, so systemwide there are more routes that could need the 789s to backfill. Some of that could also definitely come from cuts elsewhere (unfortunately, I'm not confident BNE-ORD will come back anytime soon, and routes like MEL-SFO could also be on the chopping block).


I would have thought DFW with an A380, although MEL-SIN allows for a SIN-LHR connection in F all the way, but DFW would allow 1 spare, you don't want 2 in a fleet that small, I agree with MEL-LAX for the other 2. ORD won't happen for quite a while, MEL-SFO I tend to think will at some point given they mention BNE-SFO.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:27 am

ZKCIF wrote:
How restrictive is Australia about covid? I somehow get an impression that the restrictions are so crazy that tourism is nonexistent right now and will not be viable some time in the future as well.
am I correct?
If I am correct, will business travel and cargo be enough to support all these flights?


Um, Australia has been essentially closed since COVID began. Inbound arrivals are strictly limited (a few hundred per day, at most, mandatory quarantines, thousands of Aussie nationals stranded abroad. Most of its large cities are in lockdowns at the moment and they are pretty strict.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:31 am

Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.
 
FSDan
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:33 am

sfojvjets wrote:
FSDan wrote:
majano wrote:
Also, is Qantas reassigning the 787s which operated on the routes before Covid-19 came along to cover for the two retiring A380s?


If they're planning to keep 10 388s long term, I could see the eventual deployments being SYD-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-LAX, and MEL-SIN (that would require 8 frames, leaving 2 spares). In that scenario, SYD-DFW would possibly become a 789 route, which could be one reason to want to replace 789s on shorter routes from BNE with 332s.

Also remember the 744s were parked during the pandemic, so systemwide there are more routes that could need the 789s to backfill. Some of that could also definitely come from cuts elsewhere (unfortunately, I'm not confident BNE-ORD will come back anytime soon, and routes like MEL-SFO could also be on the chopping block).

Why would a core route like MEL-SFO be on the chopping block when it's stated that they are still intending to fly BNE-SFO?


I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be on the chopping block, but that's honestly one of QF's newer long haul routes (started in Sept 2018). I don't know that I'd call it "core".
 
Kent350787
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:40 am

FSDan wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
FSDan wrote:

If they're planning to keep 10 388s long term, I could see the eventual deployments being SYD-LAX, SYD-SIN-LHR, MEL-LAX, and MEL-SIN (that would require 8 frames, leaving 2 spares). In that scenario, SYD-DFW would possibly become a 789 route, which could be one reason to want to replace 789s on shorter routes from BNE with 332s.

Also remember the 744s were parked during the pandemic, so systemwide there are more routes that could need the 789s to backfill. Some of that could also definitely come from cuts elsewhere (unfortunately, I'm not confident BNE-ORD will come back anytime soon, and routes like MEL-SFO could also be on the chopping block).

Why would a core route like MEL-SFO be on the chopping block when it's stated that they are still intending to fly BNE-SFO?


I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be on the chopping block, but that's honestly one of QF's newer long haul routes (started in Sept 2018). I don't know that I'd call it "core".


Agreed- MEL-SFO is far form core, and only opened up with new equipment. In the broader network, sensibly building transpac capacity via the A332 rang extension does seem to be the way to go. If Melburnians want to get to SFO they can go via SYD/BNE/LAX and the 789s can be better used elsewhere until demand builds and the A380s can come back.

And yes, Australia is locked down, but vaccination numbers are high, and there is now at least a broad pathway to border reopening (although I still feel that QF is optismitic). Once realistic for tourism, the pent-up outbound demand will be huge.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:43 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
There will be plenty of short to medium term changes to the network, QF's younger A332s are 238T and are less than 10 years old, 6 frames, they had looked at the use of A330s on BNE-US routes when they had a shortage of A380/744s a few years ago before they got the 789s and also possibly when AKL-LAX was dropped, it was an A330 that did LAX-JFK from AKL. Possibly a W cabin added, to reduce the seat count a little overall? The 789s will be needed on longer routes now that the 744 has been retired.


I was wondering about the outlines of a technical solution to give range. A W cabin - if they can sell at decent fares - makes a lot more sense than just seat-blocking.
 
soyuz
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:43 am

ZKCIF wrote:
How restrictive is Australia about covid? I somehow get an impression that the restrictions are so crazy that tourism is nonexistent right now and will not be viable some time in the future as well.
am I correct?
If I am correct, will business travel and cargo be enough to support all these flights?


Australia’s COVID related border restrictions are on the harsher side. Minuscule caps on international arrivals and nobody is allowed to leave unless you can prove that you’re a dual citizen AND you have a permanent place of residence overseas or there are some other extreme circumstances that allow an exemption. We’re a prisoner island, mate. I also doubt that business travel will recover to anywhere near pre-COVID levels. And those A380s need their upper decks full in order to make money. VFR and full economy class cabins won’t be enough.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:47 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:52 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


The 238T A332’s were reconfigured a couple of years ago so they could do more international flying, they are configured 27J224Y, so 251 seats in total
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:52 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


Thanks for this...
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:06 am

qf789 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


The 238T A332’s were reconfigured a couple of years ago so they could do more international flying, they are configured 27J224Y, so 251 seats in total


Interesting did they fit a crew rest or extra galley to reduce the Y seat count?
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:23 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


The 238T A332’s were reconfigured a couple of years ago so they could do more international flying, they are configured 27J224Y, so 251 seats in total


Interesting did they fit a crew rest or extra galley to reduce the Y seat count?


There is an additional galley in business (near door 2) plus they installed an extra toilet in business as well. 8 out of 18 A330-200 have this configuration, EBM through to EBV

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-exp ... 0-200.html
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:38 am

Kent350787 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be on the chopping block, but that's honestly one of QF's newer long haul routes (started in Sept 2018). I don't know that I'd call it "core".


Agreed- MEL-SFO is far form core, and only opened up with new equipment. In the broader network, sensibly building transpac capacity via the A332 rang extension does seem to be the way to go. If Melburnians want to get to SFO they can go via SYD/BNE/LAX and the 789s can be better used elsewhere until demand builds and the A380s can come back.

And yes, Australia is locked down, but vaccination numbers are high, and there is now at least a broad pathway to border reopening (although I still feel that QF is optismitic). Once realistic for tourism, the pent-up outbound demand will be huge.


Interesting, I didn't know it had started only so recently pre-pandemic. Thanks for clarifying that.

I'd love to see the A332 here at SFO! Fiji Airways has historically sent us a mix of 332s & 333s flying tpac-ish - although perhaps they have newer builds than QF which is why their 333 can fly 11+ hours all the way here.
 
flyingisthebest
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:21 am

Would it be a better idea to replace BNE-ORD with BNE-DFW and get AA to do it? I mean it makes far more sense as DFW is an AA hub and they can send the 787 from there… This is assuming there’s an open bubble.

With the QF A330-200 being proposed for BNE would it be looking at supplemental services by AA using their 787. I mean aren’t they part of a JV?

I suspect QF keeping BNE-SFO is to keep UA from BNE once borders open up again.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:31 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
Would it be a better idea to replace BNE-ORD with BNE-DFW and get AA to do it? I mean it makes far more sense as DFW is an AA hub and they can send the 787 from there… This is assuming there’s an open bubble.

With the QF A330-200 being proposed for BNE would it be looking at supplemental services by AA using their 787. I mean aren’t they part of a JV?

I suspect QF keeping BNE-SFO is to keep UA from BNE once borders open up again.


I doubt there is a need for a while atleast, I would see AA only from LAX-Australia, AKL is a little different in that QF don’t fly long haul from there. I would eventually when things are back to normal see AA in MEL/BNE-LAX. Yes they have a JV.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:14 am

The issue with the 787s is they are far too premium heavy for markets like BNE especially in a covid world. I wonder if they looked at taking on the JQ787s, the refits would probably have been too expensive.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:49 am

The JQ 787s didn't have a crew rest, iirc. Rows had to be blocked off for longer flights for the crew to rest.

Transferring some of JQ's 787s to QF for long-haul use would assumably require CapEx to modify the JQ 788s for QF long-haul use (including installing the crew rest), had the QF group considered transferring the 788s from JQ to QF.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:54 am

qf789 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


The 238T A332’s were reconfigured a couple of years ago so they could do more international flying, they are configured 27J224Y, so 251 seats in total



They actually have the following giving them a good choice already.
235 Seats: 36J @ 60", 199Y @ 31"
251 Seats: 27J @ 78", 224Y @ 31"
271 Seats: 28J @ 78", 243Y @ 31"
 
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qf789
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:59 am

rbavfan wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


The 238T A332’s were reconfigured a couple of years ago so they could do more international flying, they are configured 27J224Y, so 251 seats in total



They actually have the following giving them a good choice already.
235 Seats: 36J @ 60", 199Y @ 31"
251 Seats: 27J @ 78", 224Y @ 31"
271 Seats: 28J @ 78", 243Y @ 31"


The 36J199Y configuration doesnt exist anymore, of the 4 aircraft to have them EBG and EBI are now MRTT and EBJ and EBK were reconfigured to 28J243Y
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:26 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.

The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used.

MSN 1628+ have the capability for 242tonnes... but that's for the A333.

What I'm curious of (and don't recall seeing Airbus mention) is whether a late-model 238T A332 can be converted to 242T, since that model had so much growth potential already inherently "ready to go," versus the elder A333s (which required physical enhancements such as activating their center tank for the first time).

If not, then what, other than taking out outfitted weight, is QF doing to enhance these birds?
 
astuteman
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:38 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.


The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used. Weather they fit a W cabin or crew rest I don't know? The 28J seats is proabably enough in the current climate. Although they do have 271 seats currently 28J 243Y, I am thinking they will need to get that number down a bit to maybe 250? All the A332s have the same configuration currently but I feel for these longer flights it will likely be a sub fleet.


I wonder if Airbus are able to re-rate those later aircraft to the 242T of the latest spec?
According to the ACAP, a 242t A322 should be capable of 7,100 - 7,200Nm with a 50k lb payload, and BNE-LAX is 6,223 Nm

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/support ... stics.html

edit - I see LAX772LR beat me to it ...

Rgds
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:44 am

LAX772LR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Qantas flew its A332s from AKL to LAX and onto JFK for a time (around 2011-2012 I think). BNE-LAX is 7,161 miles and AKL-LAX is 6,504 miles so it would make sense the A330s need some range enhancements to operate the BNE-LAX sector. The point I guess is that QF has used A332s on TPAC before.

The frames used on AKL-LAX were built in 2007/08 were 235T IIRC, the 6 newest delivered 2011/13 IIRC are 238T frames which i am sure will be the ones used.

MSN 1628+ have the capability for 242tonnes... but that's for the A333.

What I'm curious of (and don't recall seeing Airbus mention) is whether a late-model 238T A332 can be converted to 242T, since that model had so much growth potential already inherently "ready to go," versus the elder A333s (which required physical enhancements such as activating their center tank for the first time).

If not, then what, other than taking out outfitted weight, is QF doing to enhance these birds?


The ACAP I linked in my post above shows a range/payload chart for an A332 at 242 tonnes, which implies that it is possible

Rgds
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:59 am

astuteman wrote:
The ACAP I linked in my post above shows a range/payload chart for an A332 at 242 tonnes, which implies that it is possible

For clarity: I know that it's possible to have a 242T A332, as that configuration was certified in September 2015.

What I'm asking is if a pre-2015 build 238T A332 can be upgraded to 242T, or if there are physical limitations that prevent doing so, up until a given line number.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:
astuteman wrote:
The ACAP I linked in my post above shows a range/payload chart for an A332 at 242 tonnes, which implies that it is possible

For clarity: I know that it's possible to have a 242T A332, as that configuration was certified in September 2015.

What I'm asking is if a pre-2015 build 238T A332 can be upgraded to 242T, or if there are physical limitations that prevent doing so, up until a given line number.


Im pretty sure it cannot be up-rated to 242T, there were structural changes to the flap fairings etc. I think 239 / 240 might be do-able.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:02 am

SCFlyer wrote:
The JQ 787s didn't have a crew rest, iirc. Rows had to be blocked off for longer flights for the crew to rest.

Transferring some of JQ's 787s to QF for long-haul use would assumably require CapEx to modify the JQ 788s for QF long-haul use (including installing the crew rest), had the QF group considered transferring the 788s from JQ to QF.


The A332's don't have crew rest either so I don't think that was a factor at all.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:12 am

The A330s should be able to get a low cost crew rest if required: Lower-Deck Mobile Crew Rest Area.

i don't think the A330s operated with dedicated crew rest when they previously operated Transpac?
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:13 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
astuteman wrote:
The ACAP I linked in my post above shows a range/payload chart for an A332 at 242 tonnes, which implies that it is possible

For clarity: I know that it's possible to have a 242T A332, as that configuration was certified in September 2015.

What I'm asking is if a pre-2015 build 238T A332 can be upgraded to 242T, or if there are physical limitations that prevent doing so, up until a given line number.


Im pretty sure it cannot be up-rated to 242T, there were structural changes to the flap fairings etc. I think 239 / 240 might be do-able.


Interesting development. I think this QF fleet changes are balanced and rational. Spending on new aircraft will be pushed out as much as possible for the next few yrs. Optimizing the A330s for longer flights would probably mean redoing the cabin, including premium economy (at the cost of J?) optimizing lavatories, galleys, crewrests for long haul service. Upping MTOW is an interesting one, it would impact maintenance planning, engine ratings, etc. A321s (incl. Jetstar) will pick up medium routes freeing up A330s. QF owned 8 332s and the A333s. Lessors would want to renegotiates rates on the leased A330s..
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:54 am

If five A380s will be back on SYD (and possibly MEL), then I wonder what the 789s will be up to, such that they feel the need to push the A332s in this regard.

PER-LHR would require 2.5ish, so that still leaves 8.5 available for east coast. Do they not plan to bring all of them back? This doesn't even take into account the three outstanding.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:11 am

LAX772LR wrote:
If five A380s will be back on SYD (and possibly MEL), then I wonder what the 789s will be up to, such that they feel the need to push the A332s in this regard.

PER-LHR would require 2.5ish, so that still leaves 8.5 available for east coast. Do they not plan to bring all of them back? This doesn't even take into account the three outstanding.


First 5 A380s for SYD-LAX and SYD-SIN-LHR. No routes have been cut but not all are likely to return at the same time, the 3 undelivered 789s will be delivered, you have 789s for, based on previous frequencies
MEL-PER-LHR daily 3 frames
MEL-LAX daily 2
MEL-SFO 4 weekly 1
SYD-SFO daily 2
SYD-DFW daily 2
SYD-SCL daily 1.5
SYD-HND daily 1.5
SYD-JNB daily 1.5

6 744s retired also.
I guess HND could be an A330 given it’s a shorter route, typically good yields in normal times given it was always a 744.Later down the track i would expect MEL-LAX and SYD-DFW to return to A380 with the 789s deployed elsewhere.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:34 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
If five A380s will be back on SYD (and possibly MEL), then I wonder what the 789s will be up to, such that they feel the need to push the A332s in this regard.

PER-LHR would require 2.5ish, so that still leaves 8.5 available for east coast. Do they not plan to bring all of them back? This doesn't even take into account the three outstanding.


First 5 A380s for SYD-LAX and SYD-SIN-LHR. No routes have been cut but not all are likely to return at the same time, the 3 undelivered 789s will be delivered, you have 789s for, based on previous frequencies
MEL-PER-LHR daily 3 frames
MEL-LAX daily 2
MEL-SFO 4 weekly 1
SYD-SFO daily 2
SYD-DFW daily 2
SYD-SCL daily 1.5
SYD-HND daily 1.5
SYD-JNB daily 1.5

6 744s retired also.
I guess HND could be an A330 given it’s a shorter route, typically good yields in normal times given it was always a 744.Later down the track i would expect MEL-LAX and SYD-DFW to return to A380 with the 789s deployed elsewhere.


Not sure JNB and SCL (or DFW) will relaunch in the first wave, at least if I am reading the press release correctly. For the US, the focus seems to be LAX and SFO and for the rest of the international portfolio, high-vaccination rate countries (Singapore, UK). Japan was mentioned in there as well, though not clear to me just how high the uptake in Japan just yet given all the coverage about high numbers of cases around and during the Olympic Games. Interesting to see the focus on BNE and SFO and how they're being prioritized in the restart of long haul international flying.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:56 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
I suspect QF keeping BNE-SFO is to keep UA from BNE once borders open up again.


UA in BNE isn't a mitigating risk factor- BNE is far down UA's list, if it's even on the list at all. QF knows from years of BNE-LAX operations that there is significant SFO bound traffic.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:17 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
If five A380s will be back on SYD (and possibly MEL), then I wonder what the 789s will be up to, such that they feel the need to push the A332s in this regard.

PER-LHR would require 2.5ish, so that still leaves 8.5 available for east coast. Do they not plan to bring all of them back? This doesn't even take into account the three outstanding.


First 5 A380s for SYD-LAX and SYD-SIN-LHR. No routes have been cut but not all are likely to return at the same time, the 3 undelivered 789s will be delivered, you have 789s for, based on previous frequencies
MEL-PER-LHR daily 3 frames
MEL-LAX daily 2
MEL-SFO 4 weekly 1
SYD-SFO daily 2
SYD-DFW daily 2
SYD-SCL daily 1.5
SYD-HND daily 1.5
SYD-JNB daily 1.5

6 744s retired also.
I guess HND could be an A330 given it’s a shorter route, typically good yields in normal times given it was always a 744.Later down the track i would expect MEL-LAX and SYD-DFW to return to A380 with the 789s deployed elsewhere.


Not sure JNB and SCL (or DFW) will relaunch in the first wave, at least if I am reading the press release correctly. For the US, the focus seems to be LAX and SFO and for the rest of the international portfolio, high-vaccination rate countries (Singapore, UK). Japan was mentioned in there as well, though not clear to me just how high the uptake in Japan just yet given all the coverage about high numbers of cases around and during the Olympic Games. Interesting to see the focus on BNE and SFO and how they're being prioritized in the restart of long haul international flying.



JNB/SCL/DFW all are scheduled to start in late 2021, not to say it will happen. SYD-HND shows an A333 4x weekly so obviously things aren’t so good there still.

From Late this year early next they are planning with the 789s
SYD-SIN-LHR daily
SYD-LAX daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-JNB daily
SYD-SCL 5 weekly
SYD-YVR 3 weekly
MEL-PER-LHR daily
MEL-LAX daily (there is a descrepency) +-
MEL-SFO 4 weekly

A few flights operating with later departures ex SYD/MELto LAX/SFO/DFW to allow higher utilisation, as what is listed above would use pretty much all 14 789s, MEL-LAX is different frequency to LAX-MEL so not fully updated yet.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:22 am

flyingisthebest wrote:
Would it be a better idea to replace BNE-ORD with BNE-DFW and get AA to do it? I mean it makes far more sense as DFW is an AA hub and they can send the 787 from there… This is assuming there’s an open bubble.

With the QF A330-200 being proposed for BNE would it be looking at supplemental services by AA using their 787. I mean aren’t they part of a JV?

I suspect QF keeping BNE-SFO is to keep UA from BNE once borders open up again.


As posted by another, BNE would've been way down UA's expansion list. Nor will DL be interested in anything outside of SYD.

QF (with partner AA) basically enjoys a monopoly on the BNE-USA routes since VA/DL exited BNE-LAX, with VA unlikely to return to TransPac for the foreseeable future having just exited administration.
 
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Re: Qantas FY20/21 Group Results, $2.35 billion loss, 2 A380’s to be retired

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:28 am

I would not call the UK a safe destination Mr. Joyce. Another 35,847 daily cases and schools will soon be back, and the flu season just around the corner. The immunity is waning for those with both jabs, going to be a difficult winter here.

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