Most from BOG and MDE to US and Central and South America.

My personal favorite and IMO long overdue; TPA-BOG

Colombia-based Grupo VIVA filed an application on October 1 to be authorized to operate Airbus A320ceo aircraft and neo, to more than 30 international connections.

The application includes routes to the United States (16), Mexico (4), the Dominican Republic (3), Peru (3), El Salvador (2), Panama (2), Brazil (1), Guatemala (1), and Aruba (1); marking the start-up of VIVA Group’s major international expansion. The order joins those already approved in mid-2021: Argentina (3), Brazil (3), Chile (2), and Costa Rica (1).

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/10/viva-applies-for-more-than-30-international-routes/

Interesting that VH is applying for PTY Tocumen and neither BLB (Panama Pacifico Howard, where it flew years ago) nor RIH (Río Hato Scarlett Martínez, right where there's a beach resort, quite popular for Colombians).

I'd be surprised if the flights to Puerto Rico actually work (that is if they get approved and start). I'd love 'em to but with Avianca already on BOG-SJU and Copa via PTY, that's gonna be hard to beat.

avi8 wrote:

I doubt they will launch all of these routes. They’re probably just getting permission so that they can just launch a route when the time comes.

True; they have a lot of competition to deal with; competition with lots of loyal and frequent flyers.

2travel2know2 wrote:

Interesting that VH is applying for PTY Tocumen and neither BLB (Panama Pacifico Howard, where it flew years ago) nor RIH (Río Hato Scarlett Martínez, right where there's a beach resort, quite popular for Colombians).

BLB is under construction/renovations valued in near US$1MM. Article just in Spanish but you can see the photos: https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/08/av ... de-panama/

Wingo is also operataing to/from PTY on these days.

Viva Colombia is taken very seriously by AV and CM and others. They are doing well within Colombia they have taken lots of marketshare from AV and more Colombians are now flying than ever before. The only routes that seem somewhat of a stretch are BOG-BWI, BOG-CUZ. They still have over 25 A320NEOs that have yet to be delivered so they need to fly them somewhere.

Just blanket application. Much of it will never launch.

Honestly, I would like to see Viva Air Colombia resume flights once again to PTY from BOG and MDE, so that the average traveler has more travel options apart from Copa, its LCC arm Wingo and Avianca.

Besides, that should encourge Copa to expand Wingo even further and demonstrate its potential, taking into account that the Panamanian subsidiary recently got its AOC and the Department of Transportation gave them the green light to fly to the US.

asuflyer wrote:

Viva Colombia is taken very seriously by AV and CM and others. They are doing well within Colombia they have taken lots of marketshare from AV and more Colombians are now flying than ever before. The only routes that seem somewhat of a stretch are BOG-BWI, BOG-CUZ. They still have over 25 A320NEOs that have yet to be delivered so they need to fly them somewhere.

For the type of market, operational costs and airfare structure VH is aiming for: flying to TLC, VCP, BWI, SWF, PVD, HOU, MDW/RFD/MKE, FLL and SFB may make more sense than MEX. GRU, IAD, JFK/EWR, BOS, IAH, ORD, MIA and MCO.
As of BOG-CUZ, that route will require the high-altitude operation kit. Not sure if VH wants 1-2 of its aircraft to be different than the rest just to be able to fly to CUZ. However, IMHO, there might be some kind of a demand for that route.

2travel2know2 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

Viva Colombia is taken very seriously by AV and CM and others. They are doing well within Colombia they have taken lots of marketshare from AV and more Colombians are now flying than ever before. The only routes that seem somewhat of a stretch are BOG-BWI, BOG-CUZ. They still have over 25 A320NEOs that have yet to be delivered so they need to fly them somewhere.

For the type of market, operational costs and airfare structure VH is aiming for: flying to TLC, VCP, BWI, SWF, PVD, HOU, MDW/RFD/MKE, FLL and SFB may make more sense than MEX. GRU, IAD, JFK/EWR, BOS, IAH, ORD, MIA and MCO.
As of BOG-CUZ, that route will require the high-altitude operation kit. Not sure if VH wants 1-2 of its aircraft to be different than the rest just to be able to fly to CUZ. However, IMHO, there might be some kind of a demand for that route.

Viva already flies to MEX and MIA. Their business model is actually adapted at operating form higher cost airports, as colombian cities don't really have viable alternate airports to operate from. And as for BOG-CUZ, there surely is demand. AV fliew it daily before the pandemic. Also, keep in mind LIM-CUZ is operated by the peruvian subsidiary, which means they already have high-altitude equipped aircraft.

Apart from that, this is another very Ryanair-esque blanket announcement with a bunch of applications geared toward obtaining publicity. However, Viva will be operating some of those especially with the amount of aircraft they will be receiving in the coming two years. The colombian domestic market is also about to get even more competitive with the entry of Ultra Air so they might as well expand beyond borders.

Nice to see the application of so many international routes. That's needed to increase competition and to bring fares down. Domestic fares are already quite nice.

I look forward to the flight prices to Brazil. There does not seem to be enough demand to Brasília and Manaus. Both with over 2 million inhabitants and could be flow with the same flight crew to there and back.

Also Ultra Air gets ready and applied for international routes. Promising 20% lower fares. Hm that's a start.

Yeah according to Wiki Viva has >20 plane orders. Wingo doesnt seem to have growth ambitions...

GVIIO wrote:

Good to see MAH4546 giving his usual negative takes on everything

hahah. The unfounded negativity on a.net is world-class.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflyi ... inted/amp/

RCS763AV wrote:

Their business model is actually adapted at operating form higher cost airports, as Colombian cities don't really have viable alternate airports to operate from.

VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia not viable alternate airport for BOG? (and at a lower altitude than BOG)

Apart from that, this is another very Ryanair-esque blanket announcement with a bunch of applications geared toward obtaining publicity.

Totally agree

However, Viva will be operating some of those especially with the amount of aircraft they will be receiving in the coming two years. The Colombian domestic market is also about to get even more competitive with the entry of Ultra Air so they might as well expand beyond borders.

Colombia does have a very dynamic domestic air-travel market, distances between major Colombian cities might not be that long, but given Colombia terrain and road infrastructure, to travel faster inside the Colombia, air-travel will be the choice for a very long time.

2travel2know2 wrote:

RCS763AV wrote:

Their business model is actually adapted at operating form higher cost airports, as Colombian cities don't really have viable alternate airports to operate from.

VVC Villavicencio Vanguardia not viable alternate airport for BOG? (and at a lower altitude than BOG)

Apart from that, this is another very Ryanair-esque blanket announcement with a bunch of applications geared toward obtaining publicity.

Totally agree

However, Viva will be operating some of those especially with the amount of aircraft they will be receiving in the coming two years. The Colombian domestic market is also about to get even more competitive with the entry of Ultra Air so they might as well expand beyond borders.

Colombia does have a very dynamic domestic air-travel market, distances between major Colombian cities might not be that long, but given Colombia terrain and road infrastructure, to travel faster inside the Colombia, air-travel will be the choice for a very long time.

You knid of answered yourslef. Due to inefficient infrastructure, VVC is not a viable alternate. It does not have the terminal facilities, the exit from BOG to the south is heavily congested and the road to Villavicencio is closed or heavily restricted half of the year due to unstable terrain. On a good day anyone form BOG will get to Villavicencio in 3.5h, normally in 4, on a bad day 7-8. That is not a viable alternate airport.

As noted, road infrastructure in Colombia just started receiving serious investment in the past 8 years. Right now, a new generaiton of concesisons is being contracted by the government, while the last is fnishing its construciton phase. Some improvements are already palbable, like the Túnel de la Línea, the Cartagena-Barranquilla and Pacífico 2 highways which have cut travel times in many highly populated areas. But since they're catching up on 60 years of abandonment, it will still likely take another 10 to see road infrastructure actually competing with air travel in distances over 250km.

The 8/25 podcast fom Airlines Confidential has an interview with the CEO of Viva, Felix Antelo. He goes through their growth strategy with ambitions to expand across N. America and to leverage Bogota as a hub for travel into S America.
https://airlinesconfidential.com/8-25-21/

robleroy121721 wrote:

I'd be surprised if the flights to Puerto Rico actually work (that is if they get approved and start). I'd love 'em to but with Avianca already on BOG-SJU and Copa via PTY, that's gonna be hard to beat.

Exactly what you said....

International flights to Colombia for 50 USD are possible!


pic:Skyscanner

Now these fares need to be expanded between more countries and Colombia.

yyztpa2 wrote:

The 8/25 podcast fom Airlines Confidential has an interview with the CEO of Viva, Felix Antelo. He goes through their growth strategy with ambitions to expand across N. America and to leverage Bogota as a hub for travel into S America.
https://airlinesconfidential.com/8-25-21/

In that interview the CEO says that he wants to expand to Ecuador with a base and surely an AOC. Because domestic and international fares there are outrageously high. Just checked it, it's true!

—

@ all the doubters that say Viva only gonna fly a small fraction of the applied international routes:

where will Viva use the additional 25 planes for? Only for domestic flights in Colombia?

airlinenavigato wrote:

International flights to Colombia for 50 USD are possible!


pic:Skyscanner

Now these fares need to be expanded between more countries and Colombia.

I hate to keep harping on this but you are missing half the equation. Yes, US to Colombia is cheap because the US had no exit tax and Colombia has no entry tax. If you look at the reverse direction, Colombia to the US is never less than $135 of which $106 is various airport fees/government taxes. $50 is not possible.

Colombia->US is from $70.


pic:Skyscanner

Do you have a source for the $106 fees and taxes?

airlinenavigato wrote:

Colombia->US is from $70.


pic:Skyscanner

Do you have a source for the $106 fees and taxes?

I suspect Skyscanner is incorrect. You will not find those fares if you click through.
Re: Taxes. Everything below is a legit tax or fee except the "Passenger Usage Charge" and the "Colombian Administrative Fee".

Your attached image is not available

Skyscanner offers it to book the flight inside the Skyscanner app. For $79. I can click through until the pay button.



On the Spirit website it's for $95.

Still a flight can be cheaper than the fees and taxes. In order to fill up the plane. And by trying to make the ticket profitable by ancillaries. Flying with a second piece of hand luggage, choosing a seat and having priority boarding doesn't cost the airline anything. It's almost 100% profit.

In the Spirit app it's also available:

From Colombia to the USA for $79.



That fare is bookable for every day from November 2 to November 26

Viva Aerobus has flights from Colombia to Mexico for 1243 MXN. That equals 59 USD.

in a new article Viva says it wants to introduce 15 new international routes in the upcoming three years

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/10/vi ... -the-year/

airlinenavigato wrote:

in a new article Viva says it wants to introduce 15 new international routes in the upcoming three years

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/10/vi ... -the-year/

That's...less than I would have figured.

Viva got the authorization to operate 33 new international routes

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflyi ... outes/amp/

btw try to avoid the seats 32B&C. The seat pitch is less. The seats 31D-F are only for dwarfs. Much worse than the older Wizz Air seats :O

avi8 wrote:

This would be amazing. Low-cost flying to Colombia would be great.

What country are you interested to fly from to Colombia?

These are the countries for under 100 USD one-way already:


pic:Skyscanner

Flights to Colombia may have lower fares due to lower taxes.

I'm looking forward to better fares from/to Brazil, Chile, Dominican Republic and Cuba

There is a new interview:

Viva has now a 25% market share in Colombia, up from 15% pre-plague

"If you fast forward a few years, a lot of the capacity in Colombia here will be dominated by ULCC or LCC configurations"

"The domestic network in Colombia is fairly well built out. A lot of our new aircraft will be focused on international expansion"

Bewley repeats that Viva wants to connect South America with North America via Colombia

"With some of the Neos coming in starting the middle of next year, we'll have extended range. We're going to be buying the additional [maximum takeoff weight], which allows it to take off with more fuel, so that will buy us additional range, so we can go deeper into South America and North America. [...] We can reach as far north as Toronto or as far south as Buenos Aires and Santiago."

Assumed he speaks about flights from Medellin, this is the range map:



Whole South America except the south of Chile and Argentina. Almost all Mexico. In Canada a large area of high population density.
MDE-EZE is 2,630nmi

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Inte ... can-Market

airlinenavigato wrote:

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Inte ... can-Market

"If you look at JetSmart, based in Chile, or Sky, based in Chile and Peru, they fly the same planes we do but cannot reach into America, essentially."

That's why both ordered the XLR

airlinenavigato wrote:

"With some of the Neos coming in starting the middle of next year, we'll have extended range. We're going to be buying the additional [maximum takeoff weight], which allows it to take off with more fuel, so that will buy us additional range, so we can go deeper into South America and North America. [...] We can reach as far north as Toronto or as far south as Buenos Aires and Santiago."

Assumed he speaks about flights from Medellin, this is the range map:



Whole South America except the south of Chile and Argentina. Almost all Mexico. In Canada a large area of high population density.
MDE-EZE is 2,630nmi

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Inte ... can-Market

The major disadvantage of Medellin and Bogota is the airport altitude which gives airlines payload restrictions so this must also be taken into account and not just look at the distances between the airports. Secondly, Medellin to my knowledge doesn't offer much room for expansion of the terminal building, unless a new airport can be built nearby? Bogota's El Dorado also already is congested now and it wouldn't surprise me that Avianca has a huge influence in what happens at El Dorado(?)

What certainly will work in their advantage is their big domestic market so they won't be fully reliant on the success of their hub linking South America to North America.

A388

A388 wrote:

The major disadvantage of Medellin and Bogota is the airport altitude which gives airlines payload restrictions so this must also be taken into account and not just look at the distances between the airports.

So, how does that influence the range specifically in this case

A388 wrote:

airlinenavigato wrote:

"With some of the Neos coming in starting the middle of next year, we'll have extended range. We're going to be buying the additional [maximum takeoff weight], which allows it to take off with more fuel, so that will buy us additional range, so we can go deeper into South America and North America. [...] We can reach as far north as Toronto or as far south as Buenos Aires and Santiago."

Assumed he speaks about flights from Medellin, this is the range map:



Whole South America except the south of Chile and Argentina. Almost all Mexico. In Canada a large area of high population density.
MDE-EZE is 2,630nmi

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Inte ... can-Market

The major disadvantage of Medellin and Bogota is the airport altitude which gives airlines payload restrictions so this must also be taken into account and not just look at the distances between the airports. Secondly, Medellin to my knowledge doesn't offer much room for expansion of the terminal building, unless a new airport can be built nearby? Bogota's El Dorado also already is congested now and it wouldn't surprise me that Avianca has a huge influence in what happens at El Dorado(?)

What certainly will work in their advantage is their big domestic market so they won't be fully reliant on the success of their hub linking South America to North America.

A388

Yes but Avianca is operating flights with A320/319 CEOs, to NYC/GRU/EZE, out of BOG/MDE currently.. NEOs will only improve performance.. The altitude definitely makes a difference but I believe the distance is close enough to be viable.

Yes, Avianca does the same but most likely while taking payload hits. I don't know how good that is for a low cost airline who need higher load factors to keep costs lower. You can't take off fully loaded from high altitude airports, whether it's a 2-engined airplane or a 4-engined airplane.

A388