Discussions about factual events happening in the airline and general aviation industries. If it's happening in commercial aviation, you'll get the information and opinions here first.

Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

#23418671
MIflyer12 wrote:
Jetport wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
95% of LGA's traffic is O&D. Any connections are utterly incidental. DL would be happy to route BDL passengers through DTW or ATL to keep NYC yields high.


95% O&D at LGA, or any hub/focus city sounds absurd, do you have a source? I guess I have been part of the 5%, along with most other passengers on my flights a ridiculous number of times over the past 25 years.


Sure. (It's actually 94.3 -- my bad.) MCO Airport routinely puts out domestic O&D and connecting stats for the 30 largest U.S. airports.

See U.S. Airport O&D Ranking at bottom right. https://orlandoairports.net/about-us/#t ... statistics

LGA is all about O&D -- just as I declared. The data are for the 12 months ending 12/2021 but don't look a lot different from 2019.


LGA puts connecting traffic at 12% for 2021 and 14% for 2019.

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/en/stat ... -info.html
#23420891
BTVB6Flyer wrote:Looks like F9 is dropping BTV.
Among a handful of cities they are suspending, including ALB, HSV and SDF.

Can you point to any announcement of this? I haven’t been able to find anything. I assume it’s true, because there’s a local news station story about the suspension of ALB service in the “Upstate New York”thread. I just can’t find any statement about BTV.
#23420999
B595 wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:Looks like F9 is dropping BTV.
Among a handful of cities they are suspending, including ALB, HSV and SDF.

Can you point to any announcement of this? I haven’t been able to find anything. I assume it’s true, because there’s a local news station story about the suspension of ALB service in the “Upstate New York”thread. I just can’t find any statement about BTV.


Unfortunately, doesn't appear to have hit the local news yet. I found it on Patreon via Enilria via his OAG schedule changes and a post going over the other cities.

Most I can find news wise is this link, which also appears to be behind some paywall or subscriber content: https://centreforaviation.com/news/fron ... 22-1153587

Also you can't book BTV-MCO, so unless this is just pilot related and F9 plans to come back in the summer with BTV-DEN, looks more or less official.
#23421583
Yeah stopping ticket sales is a pretty bad sign. October 3rd looks like the last day.

IIRC didn't frontier have some incentives end in 2022? I thought some were three years and started in 2019 so maybe reduced fees ended? Worth it to keep flying this summer as fares were so high. Could be a negotiating tactic to get reduced fees again. I think they were getting a deal and maybe now on just full normal pricing. Not really uncommon for them to leave cities after incentives or reduced fees end. Frontier has a history of doing that. Plus they have a pilot and crew shortage issues.

They could totally be willing to leave(given their staffing shortages) and seeing if this gets them a deal again. If not they might just want to cancel a spoke until they have more staff. Come back when the airport gives them a deal in a year or two

I think frontiers staffing companies have had serious issues with ground staff, so that could be part of it. I know one day they had to cancel a flight because of no staff. Burlington is pretty expensive , the labor shortage is worse than most of the country.

If you want ULCC non-stop service to Florida. Plattsburgh will still be there with multiple cities. For everyone else who wants to use BTV they can connect
#23421969
some cuts for winter:
-noticing that NK’s MHT-FLL/RSW/MYR routes are gone for winter. The first two are really surprising. Not so much the other one. MHT-MCO remains an A321. MHT-TPA is back on an A320.
-AA MHT-CLT has been downgraded back to regional CRJ-900’s and are twice a day.
-AA MHT-ORD is suspended for the winter again
#23422061
Cboyle wrote:some cuts for winter:
-noticing that NK’s MHT-FLL/RSW/MYR routes are gone for winter. The first two are really surprising. Not so much the other one. MHT-MCO remains an A321. MHT-TPA is back on an A320.
-AA MHT-CLT has been downgraded back to regional CRJ-900’s and are[photoid][/photoid] twice a day.
-AA MHT-ORD is suspended for the winter again


RSW gone? The nonstop is bookable in December and January
#23422155
FLYKTPA wrote:
Cboyle wrote:some cuts for winter:
-noticing that NK’s MHT-FLL/RSW/MYR routes are gone for winter. The first two are really surprising. Not so much the other one. MHT-MCO remains an A321. MHT-TPA is back on an A320.
-AA MHT-CLT has been downgraded back to regional CRJ-900’s and are[photoid][/photoid] twice a day.
-AA MHT-ORD is suspended for the winter again


RSW gone? The nonstop is bookable in December and January

November at least…
#23425277
Cboyle wrote:some cuts for winter:
-noticing that NK’s MHT-FLL/RSW/MYR routes are gone for winter. The first two are really surprising. Not so much the other one. MHT-MCO remains an A321. MHT-TPA is back on an A320.
-AA MHT-CLT has been downgraded back to regional CRJ-900’s and are twice a day.
-AA MHT-ORD is suspended for the winter again

It’s just for November as far as I can see, they come back full strength in December. November is slow season, don’t forget until about thanksgiving.
#23432143
uconn99 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Jetport wrote:
95% O&D at LGA, or any hub/focus city sounds absurd, do you have a source? I guess I have been part of the 5%, along with most other passengers on my flights a ridiculous number of times over the past 25 years.


Sure. (It's actually 94.3 -- my bad.) MCO Airport routinely puts out domestic O&D and connecting stats for the 30 largest U.S. airports.

See U.S. Airport O&D Ranking at bottom right. https://orlandoairports.net/about-us/#t ... statistics

LGA is all about O&D -- just as I declared. The data are for the 12 months ending 12/2021 but don't look a lot different from 2019.


LGA puts connecting traffic at 12% for 2021 and 14% for 2019.

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/en/stat ... -info.html


12-14% sounds like a reasonable stat. DL and codeshare partner WS are probably 30% connecting, AA probably 20% and everyone else combined are probably below 3%, with probably B6 making up the bulk of that. Someone like F9 would be 0%.
#23439795
I was looking at some of the cargo feeder flying on FlightAware earlier and it got me wondering about some of the details. On the surface, it seems pretty simple. Large aircraft get further filled with feeder flights that come in from all over the region where larger aircraft cannot be supported, but how to they decide what route gets flown on what days? Is it variable, or on a fixed schedule? Do they run the same aircraft every day for the same route? How do they handle excess load? A second aircraft? A larger aircraft? Ship via ground? I've seen feeder flights from ALB, BDL, BOS, PWM, and PVD to MHT, but don't they already have large capacity aircraft that fly to MEM and SDF? UPS and FedEx are known for their ability to flex operations and I suspect that their feeders can as well(?)

I know that UPS runs a MHT feeder operation. Does FedEx still run one there as well, and if not, do they run one in the region?
#23439867
LotsaRunway wrote:I was looking at some of the cargo feeder flying on FlightAware earlier and it got me wondering about some of the details. On the surface, it seems pretty simple. Large aircraft get further filled with feeder flights that come in from all over the region where larger aircraft cannot be supported, but how to they decide what route gets flown on what days? Is it variable, or on a fixed schedule? Do they run the same aircraft every day for the same route? How do they handle excess load? A second aircraft? A larger aircraft? Ship via ground? I've seen feeder flights from ALB, BDL, BOS, PWM, and PVD to MHT, but don't they already have large capacity aircraft that fly to MEM and SDF? UPS and FedEx are known for their ability to flex operations and I suspect that their feeders can as well(?)

I know that UPS runs a MHT feeder operation. Does FedEx still run one there as well, and if not, do they run one in the region?

Wiggins Airways in based in Manchester and serves the cargo needs of smaller airports and communities across New England and other points in the Northeast. I can only speak with some knowledge as to their operation at PVD but their base in MHT is why you see flights arriving there from the airports you mentioned. Their fleet will transition there per their maintenance schedule.

At PVD, Wiggins bases two C208s to act as a FedEx feeder operation to ACK, EWR, and MVY. During the summer a third aircraft typically joins the rotation. A FX 757 arrives each morning from MEM and cargo going to the islands is loaded onto the Wiggins C208s. Vice versa at night with the departure back to MEM (or FWA, etc). During the summer and peak holiday traffic, Wiggins runs flights to the islands essentially all day. During slower times of the year the flights depart PVD for the islands in the morning and return in the evening. There is also a weekday Wiggins turn that operates PVD-EWR-PVD at 03:00 LCL that departs empty to EWR and returns to PVD with priority cargo. The same tail numbers will remain at PVD and conduct these flights until they transition back to MHT for maintenance, at which time they’ll backfill the PVD base with another aircraft.
#23439883
PVD523 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:I was looking at some of the cargo feeder flying on FlightAware earlier and it got me wondering about some of the details. On the surface, it seems pretty simple. Large aircraft get further filled with feeder flights that come in from all over the region where larger aircraft cannot be supported, but how to they decide what route gets flown on what days? Is it variable, or on a fixed schedule? Do they run the same aircraft every day for the same route? How do they handle excess load? A second aircraft? A larger aircraft? Ship via ground? I've seen feeder flights from ALB, BDL, BOS, PWM, and PVD to MHT, but don't they already have large capacity aircraft that fly to MEM and SDF? UPS and FedEx are known for their ability to flex operations and I suspect that their feeders can as well(?)

I know that UPS runs a MHT feeder operation. Does FedEx still run one there as well, and if not, do they run one in the region?

Wiggins Airways in based in Manchester and serves the cargo needs of smaller airports and communities across New England and other points in the Northeast. I can only speak with some knowledge as to their operation at PVD but their base in MHT is why you see flights arriving there from the airports you mentioned. Their fleet will transition there per their maintenance schedule.

At PVD, Wiggins bases two C208s to act as a FedEx feeder operation to ACK, EWR, and MVY. During the summer a third aircraft typically joins the rotation. A FX 757 arrives each morning from MEM and cargo going to the islands is loaded onto the Wiggins C208s. Vice versa at night with the departure back to MEM (or FWA, etc). During the summer and peak holiday traffic, Wiggins runs flights to the islands essentially all day. During slower times of the year the flights depart PVD for the islands in the morning and return in the evening. There is also a weekday Wiggins turn that operates PVD-EWR-PVD at 03:00 LCL that departs empty to EWR and returns to PVD with priority cargo. The same tail numbers will remain at PVD and conduct these flights until they transition back to MHT for maintenance, at which time they’ll backfill the PVD base with another aircraft.


I've seen parades of up to four C208s on FR24. I assume they just add planes on busy cargo days.
#23440185
PVD523 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:I was looking at some of the cargo feeder flying on FlightAware earlier and it got me wondering about some of the details. On the surface, it seems pretty simple. Large aircraft get further filled with feeder flights that come in from all over the region where larger aircraft cannot be supported, but how to they decide what route gets flown on what days? Is it variable, or on a fixed schedule? Do they run the same aircraft every day for the same route? How do they handle excess load? A second aircraft? A larger aircraft? Ship via ground? I've seen feeder flights from ALB, BDL, BOS, PWM, and PVD to MHT, but don't they already have large capacity aircraft that fly to MEM and SDF? UPS and FedEx are known for their ability to flex operations and I suspect that their feeders can as well(?)

I know that UPS runs a MHT feeder operation. Does FedEx still run one there as well, and if not, do they run one in the region?

Wiggins Airways in based in Manchester and serves the cargo needs of smaller airports and communities across New England and other points in the Northeast. I can only speak with some knowledge as to their operation at PVD but their base in MHT is why you see flights arriving there from the airports you mentioned. Their fleet will transition there per their maintenance schedule.

At PVD, Wiggins bases two C208s to act as a FedEx feeder operation to ACK, EWR, and MVY. During the summer a third aircraft typically joins the rotation. A FX 757 arrives each morning from MEM and cargo going to the islands is loaded onto the Wiggins C208s. Vice versa at night with the departure back to MEM (or FWA, etc). During the summer and peak holiday traffic, Wiggins runs flights to the islands essentially all day. During slower times of the year the flights depart PVD for the islands in the morning and return in the evening. There is also a weekday Wiggins turn that operates PVD-EWR-PVD at 03:00 LCL that departs empty to EWR and returns to PVD with priority cargo. The same tail numbers will remain at PVD and conduct these flights until they transition back to MHT for maintenance, at which time they’ll backfill the PVD base with another aircraft.

Interesting! Thanks for the info. I wasn’t aware that Wiggins ran a feeder out of PVD to the islands, but it makes sense. I’m thinking the EWR circuit is done to handle more localized PVD-NYC priority cargo. With the feeder hub at MHT, is there a direct connection between MHT and EWR?
#23440187
MO11 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:I know that UPS runs a MHT feeder operation. Does FedEx still run one there as well, and if not, do they run one in the region?



Portland to Bangor and Presque Isle. Everything else is truck.

So FedEx has a mini-feeder in ME through PWM? I’ve seen Wiggins feeders for UPS between Bangor/Presque Isle and MHT.

I wonder if BDL has any feeder service?
#23440237
LotsaRunway wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Portland to Bangor and Presque Isle. Everything else is truck.

So FedEx has a mini-feeder in ME through PWM? I’ve seen Wiggins feeders for UPS between Bangor/Presque Isle and MHT.

I wonder if BDL has any feeder service?


No. I think there was a Bridgeport-BDL trip for FedEx at one time.

In the mid '80s (when SDF was the only UPS hub and its jets were flown by contractors), UPS started feeders out of BDL using Corporate Air (Aztec/Navajo). It had flights to Poughkeepsie, Stewart, and Sullivan County. It also had a Viking Convair that went to Albany (same flight number as today's ALB-BDL-PHL).
#23441033
quote="ctavgeek33"]https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/fuel-truck-rollover-closes-tweed-new-haven-airport/2860694/

Oops.

Four diversions so far, and the entire afternoon schedule has been hosed. Airport was supposed to reopen at five, but has yet to do so as of 7:20.[/quote]

HVN now not scheduled to reopen until 2001 hours local time, per FlightAware.
#23447275
ctavgeek33 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:BDL-MBJ will be a good viable post B6/NK merger route as well


We'll see. This route is made possible courtesy of a large subsidy from the CT government. I was hoping it'd be B6, but I guess waiting a few years for that is alright. That said, I expect it to be successful.


Where do you see the flight has a subsidy? Not saying it doesn't but I don't see mention of it anywhere. And wouldn't the subsidy be paid by the CAA which is self funded?
#23447327
MO11 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Portland to Bangor and Presque Isle. Everything else is truck.

So FedEx has a mini-feeder in ME through PWM? I’ve seen Wiggins feeders for UPS between Bangor/Presque Isle and MHT.

I wonder if BDL has any feeder service?


No. I think there was a Bridgeport-BDL trip for FedEx at one time.

It is unsourced, but according to the Wikipedia page on BDR that service still operates.
#23447347
uconn99 wrote:
ctavgeek33 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:BDL-MBJ will be a good viable post B6/NK merger route as well


We'll see. This route is made possible courtesy of a large subsidy from the CT government. I was hoping it'd be B6, but I guess waiting a few years for that is alright. That said, I expect it to be successful.


Where do you see the flight has a subsidy? Not saying it doesn't but I don't see mention of it anywhere. And wouldn't the subsidy be paid by the CAA which is self funded?



https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Are ... 255ffe56fc
#23447777
uconn99 wrote:
ctavgeek33 wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:BDL-MBJ will be a good viable post B6/NK merger route as well


We'll see. This route is made possible courtesy of a large subsidy from the CT government. I was hoping it'd be B6, but I guess waiting a few years for that is alright. That said, I expect it to be successful.


Where do you see the flight has a subsidy? Not saying it doesn't but I don't see mention of it anywhere. And wouldn't the subsidy be paid by the CAA which is self funded?


Airports are not allowed to use airport funds to subsidize service. They can waive fees and provide marketing $$$, but direct subsidies are not permissible per FAA. In addition, the incentive must be available to anyone. My guess is that BDL had an attractive incentive package with airport fee waivers and marketing, coupled with additional incentives from the state (for things that airport revenues aren't allowed to cover) and they shopped it around with NK taking the bait. B6 was probably previously an interested party but their operational woes and growing costs probably nixed that option.
#23448543
ctavgeek33 wrote:
uconn99 wrote:
ctavgeek33 wrote:
We'll see. This route is made possible courtesy of a large subsidy from the CT government. I was hoping it'd be B6, but I guess waiting a few years for that is alright. That said, I expect it to be successful.


Where do you see the flight has a subsidy? Not saying it doesn't but I don't see mention of it anywhere. And wouldn't the subsidy be paid by the CAA which is self funded?



https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Are ... 255ffe56fc


:thumbsup:
#23448545
RL757PVD wrote:
uconn99 wrote:
ctavgeek33 wrote:
We'll see. This route is made possible courtesy of a large subsidy from the CT government. I was hoping it'd be B6, but I guess waiting a few years for that is alright. That said, I expect it to be successful.


Where do you see the flight has a subsidy? Not saying it doesn't but I don't see mention of it anywhere. And wouldn't the subsidy be paid by the CAA which is self funded?


Airports are not allowed to use airport funds to subsidize service. They can waive fees and provide marketing $$$, but direct subsidies are not permissible per FAA. In addition, the incentive must be available to anyone. My guess is that BDL had an attractive incentive package with airport fee waivers and marketing, coupled with additional incentives from the state (for things that airport revenues aren't allowed to cover) and they shopped it around with NK taking the bait. B6 was probably previously an interested party but their operational woes and growing costs probably nixed that option.


Thanks for that info.
#23453035
Recently flew out of BTV and thought I'd share a quick update.

For the most part, business as usual in the early morning rush. For the second straight trip, the south checkpoint was the only one open. While I'm assuming there's a staffing component to this, it also gets people used to that location for when the new checkpoint opens. On that note, there are multiple signs saying it's coming 'Fall 2022' and there also some work going on in the area of the current checkpoint. Services are still pretty much operating in one concourse at a time. The newsstand appears to bounce back and forth depending on demand while The Skinny Pancake is only running the north location. However, they are still my favorite airport food (Ok, I loved them before they opened at BTV) and it's well worth the walk over to the north side.
#23483973
I was looking at BTV activity for today and was surprised to see a B6 A320 scheduled for an early evening arrival. This seems to be a regular flight (at least for October which has always been a big month for them at BTV) It also looks like the scheduled aircraft is the A320, at least for the next few days. I can't remember the last time that the A320 was the regular B6 equipment at BTV. One other odd thing is that this flight has a new number - 650 which I don't think has ever been used at BTV and does not fit with the traditional numbering of .34 or ..34 No idea why they would not just use one of the same numbers that they have in the past...
#23484841
HVNandrew wrote:
MO11 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:So FedEx has a mini-feeder in ME through PWM? I’ve seen Wiggins feeders for UPS between Bangor/Presque Isle and MHT.

I wonder if BDL has any feeder service?


No. I think there was a Bridgeport-BDL trip for FedEx at one time.

It is unsourced, but according to the Wikipedia page on BDR that service still operates.



The BDR flight from BDL hasn't operated since May or so. Think it's gone for good.
#23485541
PVD523 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
LGA slot squatting would be my educated guess. About as minimal fuel burn as you can get.



BDL-LGA going to 5 flights on November 9.

PVD-LGA goes 5x daily as well. DL is really pushing LGA as a northeast connecting option.
To brush the servce aside as simply slot squatting may be selling it short. Have a look at their route map. There are fair amount of DL cities East of DTW and North and East of ATL that can be reached via LGA from PVD in addition to the point to point NYC area traffic.
#23485573
lat41 wrote:
PVD523 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

BDL-LGA going to 5 flights on November 9.

PVD-LGA goes 5x daily as well. DL is really pushing LGA as a northeast connecting option.
To brush the servce aside as simply slot squatting may be selling it short. Have a look at their route map. There are fair amount of DL cities East of DTW and North and East of ATL that can be reached via LGA from PVD in addition to the point to point NYC area traffic.

I didn’t say they were slot squatting. I was making the same argument as you.
#23485925
mjgbtv wrote:I was looking at BTV activity for today and was surprised to see a B6 A320 scheduled for an early evening arrival. This seems to be a regular flight (at least for October which has always been a big month for them at BTV) It also looks like the scheduled aircraft is the A320, at least for the next few days. I can't remember the last time that the A320 was the regular B6 equipment at BTV. One other odd thing is that this flight has a new number - 650 which I don't think has ever been used at BTV and does not fit with the traditional numbering of .34 or ..34 No idea why they would not just use one of the same numbers that they have in the past...

Up-gauge for the leaf-peeping crowds? Although if that’s the case then it’s odd it would extend through the end of the month, since leaf season usually ends mid-month. Maybe instead it reflects the slow trickle retirement of E190s that has been mentioned in the dedicated jetBlue threads. Don’t know, just WAG’ing.

As you say, the schedule’s been stuck in stone for quite a while. Easy to forget there was a brief time when jetBlue had 4 A320s RON on the apron.
#23486197
PVD523 wrote:
lat41 wrote:
PVD523 wrote:PVD-LGA goes 5x daily as well. DL is really pushing LGA as a northeast connecting option.
To brush the servce aside as simply slot squatting may be selling it short. Have a look at their route map. There are fair amount of DL cities East of DTW and North and East of ATL that can be reached via LGA from PVD in addition to the point to point NYC area traffic.

I didn’t say they were slot squatting. I was making the same argument as you.


I was, but casually looking at load factors from BDL-LGA and PVD-LGA over next two days, I fully admit, they're some healthy loads.

I still feel like some of this IS slot squatting, but with the cuts Delta made to some other regional routes, Endeavor Air may have the pilots and crews to run these flights more often. And if you can add service, use a slot AND get healthy loads, well, that's the trifecta.
#23486319
B595 wrote:
mjgbtv wrote:I was looking at BTV activity for today and was surprised to see a B6 A320 scheduled for an early evening arrival. This seems to be a regular flight (at least for October which has always been a big month for them at BTV) It also looks like the scheduled aircraft is the A320, at least for the next few days. I can't remember the last time that the A320 was the regular B6 equipment at BTV. One other odd thing is that this flight has a new number - 650 which I don't think has ever been used at BTV and does not fit with the traditional numbering of .34 or ..34 No idea why they would not just use one of the same numbers that they have in the past...

Up-gauge for the leaf-peeping crowds? Although if that’s the case then it’s odd it would extend through the end of the month, since leaf season usually ends mid-month. Maybe instead it reflects the slow trickle retirement of E190s that has been mentioned in the dedicated jetBlue threads. Don’t know, just WAG’ing.

As you say, the schedule’s been stuck in stone for quite a while. Easy to forget there was a brief time when jetBlue had 4 A320s RON on the apron.


Historically October has been one of the best months for B6 at BTV, so there must be more to it than just the first couple of weeks. There is probably enough good leaf-peeping at the lower elevations to attract some people through the end of the month. However, it does look like the equipment switches to an E190 after a couple more days.
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