https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... ldren-die/

In Roman times, and actually in the US men could kill wife or children and generally avoid prosecution. Here is a modern version of that continuing in the state of Idaho

They believe in "faith healing", plenty of people die as a result, and what do they conclude ?

Francoflier wrote:

Interesting topic to discuss, but I'd suggest a less provocative and misleading thread title...

The title is provocative but it is not misleading. Evolution is pretty brutal, and violence aimed at women and children has been seen as the 'nature of thing' even in Western culture will into the 1800s. One of the truly astounding things is that the movement to protect children is a 'child' of the original movement of protecting animals against cruelty. Even in the late 1900s the movement to protect children from abuse and sexual assault was a 'child' of the women's lib movement. We are not that far from nature 'red in tooth and claw'. While I am a religious believer I also am not under any illusions that our specie is at home to violence and cruelty as much as any other animal, more so perhaps as we have better tools to abet that violence.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/idaho-faith-healing-exemption-remains-unchanged-and-more-children-die/

In Roman times, and actually in the US men could kill wife or children and generally avoid prosecution. Here is a modern version of that continuing in the state of Idaho

Why don't you say rightwing people, there's noting in the article that only states men are the issue, there's just as many nutty right wing women who also believe in this.

Aesma wrote:

They believe in "faith healing", plenty of people die as a result, and what do they conclude ?

That they need to pray harder and better?

I mean, they've seen the results of prayers fixing the mass shootings issue.

Francoflier wrote:

Interesting topic to discuss, but I'd suggest a less provocative and misleading thread title...

Even so, Sen Patti Anne Lodge sounds like a forward-looking representative.

Aesma wrote:

They believe in "faith healing", plenty of people die as a result, and what do they conclude ?

They either get better or are rewarded with entry to heaven. It's a no lose situation in their eyes, unfortunately.

One of the deep arguments I have concerning my church, is its refusal to take evolution seriously, despite the great scientists of recent centuries interred in its temples. The current wokeness of our pronouncements insists upon placing all of the blames of the world on white guys over the last four centuries. It is almost as though a cabal of these miscreants invented original sin, greed, killing, rape and pillage - none of which ever existed in the world aforetimes. It is a strange meeting of the extreme left and the extreme right, those Idaho men (who of course have women agree that they need to be ruled and obey those men - remember that is part of the mythology) who refuse to keep their children alive believe the Western Medicine is an invention of the devil. It is true that the extreme left and the exteme right have different demons to oppose. But both seem to hate either the establishment as evil or the deep state as evil. The establishment is the deep state - it is the momentum and tacit agreement to conserve our civilization. Sorry for the rant.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/idaho-faith-healing-exemption-remains-unchanged-and-more-children-die/

In Roman times, and actually in the US men could kill wife or children and generally avoid prosecution. Here is a modern version of that continuing in the state of Idaho

I read your linked article and it does not support the gender aspect your title imparts on it. In fact many men are named in the article as working to remove the 'faith healing' exemptions, and it named a female as a key supporter of the 'faith healing' exemptions.

Kiwirob wrote:

Why don't you say rightwing people, there's noting in the article that only states men are the issue, there's just as many nutty right wing women who also believe in this.

I am no men's rights activist, but to use this article to attack men is way off target.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

Interesting topic to discuss, but I'd suggest a less provocative and misleading thread title...

The title is provocative but it is not misleading. Evolution is pretty brutal, and violence aimed at women and children has been seen as the 'nature of thing' even in Western culture will into the 1800s. One of the truly astounding things is that the movement to protect children is a 'child' of the original movement of protecting animals against cruelty. Even in the late 1900s the movement to protect children from abuse and sexual assault was a 'child' of the women's lib movement. We are not that far from nature 'red in tooth and claw'. While I am a religious believer I also am not under any illusions that our specie is at home to violence and cruelty as much as any other animal, more so perhaps as we have better tools to abet that violence.

It's leader of progress in the world that they're being reduced in the West in the past 200 years unlike a number of regions around the world which are still treated as social norm. From what I heard this have been exploited by Russia to harvest support in Western, Southern, and Southeastern Asia, by painting Ukraine as a minor in the Slavic house in the world.

It is necessary to avert this but question is how ti globalize such direction

Researching White Christian Nationalism readily explains Dominion Theology which both asserts men's right to have dominion over a wife, and that a number of the spokespersons for this are women. I posted a link to this sometime ago, I had saved the link but cleared it a week ago. Posters here would increase their understanding of how corrosive this movement is to the stability of the United States. Google has a lot of links.

Kiwirob wrote:

frmrCapCadet wrote:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/idaho-faith-healing-exemption-remains-unchanged-and-more-children-die/

In Roman times, and actually in the US men could kill wife or children and generally avoid prosecution. Here is a modern version of that continuing in the state of Idaho

Why don't you say rightwing people, there's noting in the article that only states men are the issue, there's just as many nutty right wing women who also believe in this.

Undoubtedly there are many nutty right wing women, "but as many", is a stretch too far.
A fundemental right wing view is that the status quo, and its power heirarchy, is under attack and needs defending.
Male power dominance, overt, or covert, is integral to that view.

A simple look at the gender imbalance in right wing political parties in most of the world bears this out.

Although our New Zealand, is an exception, with remarkable gender balance in our most right ring of our mainstream parties, and even in our fringe Freedom and Rights coalition.

Can we stop calling it "religious liberty" and call it what it really is: Christian nationalism? "Religious liberty" sounds like it covers Sikhs and Muslims and Satanists and Buddhists but it only really applies to a very specific group. People who believe they are Christian, who hate and exclude based on things like skin color and vaccines and who a person loves.

And, yes, much of Idaho is this way. Outside Boise, Idaho is far right wing and very closed minded.

seb146 wrote:

Can we stop calling it "religious liberty" and call it what it really is: Christian nationalism? "Religious liberty" sounds like it covers Sikhs and Muslims and Satanists and Buddhists but it only really applies to a very specific group. People who believe they are Christian, who hate and exclude based on things like skin color and vaccines and who a person loves.

And, yes, much of Idaho is this way. Outside Boise, Idaho is far right wing and very closed minded.

Christians are literally arguing that right now, that the Jewish opposition to an Indiana anti abortion law is not "sincerely religious", as if there isn't some brand new made up christian "sincerely religious" opposition to certain vaccines, baking cookies, other people using pronouns, M&Ms, working for the post office, you name it

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/statu ... clrJzwpf9g

Just complete insanity.

seb146 wrote:

Can we stop calling it "religious liberty" and call it what it really is: Christian nationalism? "Religious liberty" sounds like it covers Sikhs and Muslims and Satanists and Buddhists but it only really applies to a very specific group. People who believe they are Christian, who hate and exclude based on things like skin color and vaccines and who a person loves.

And, yes, much of Idaho is this way. Outside Boise, Idaho is far right wing and very closed minded.

I think "Christian Authoritarianism" fits even better.

They simply want to use their slanted take on Christianity to force other people to do things their way and no other way.

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology
A very short primer on this. Its relevance to this thread is found in the variety of dominions there are, ranging from the US as a Christian Nation to small religious sects (or sometimes just a man or two) who feel and claim some sort of sovereignty within their tiny realms. Any number of sheriffs in the Western US claim the power to nullify federal and state laws within their county. Any number of public commentators, on the left or on the right testify that this sort of beliefs have the power of destroying civil government in the US, and is currently a serious threat.

Note: there is a sort of 'soft' use of the label, The US is a Christian Nation. Asserting only the the US was largely founded and peopled by Christians. Those using the term in this way, appropriately admit that they need to waffle a lot when confronted by facts that native Americans were here first, that we seem to be as violent and vindictive as most other people around the world, and most often do not represent the virtues found in the Sermon on the Mount (think Beatitudes).

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

Let's just set aside the fact that "the left" do believe in science. Remember which side was screaming about Fauci being a "liberal" and forcing us all to vax up with chemicals to turn us all gay and sterile? What this comes down to is MAGAs legislate their beliefs, no matter how many it kills.

seb146 wrote:

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

Let's just set aside the fact that "the left" do believe in science. Remember which side was screaming about Fauci being a "liberal" and forcing us all to vax up with chemicals to turn us all gay and sterile? What this comes down to is MAGAs legislate their beliefs, no matter how many it kills.

The mainstream (political center) are the people who do well on tests, believe in science and are nonviolent. The extreme left and right are violent and incapable of using knowledge. They rely on their religion, politics or superstitious beliefs rather than facts. The extreme left and right both reject medical knowledge, statistics, vaccines, history, reason.

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Name them. Name any group on the left that denies established science - or any leader, for that matter.

PPVRA wrote:

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

Actually, the title seems perfectly accurate; can you define what is "biased/false" about it? Perhaps it just doesn't fit someone's world view... which is their problem. Threads don't usually get deleted because someone gets embarrased by them.

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

You forgot to add "And prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law"

LCDFlight wrote:

seb146 wrote:

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

Let's just set aside the fact that "the left" do believe in science. Remember which side was screaming about Fauci being a "liberal" and forcing us all to vax up with chemicals to turn us all gay and sterile? What this comes down to is MAGAs legislate their beliefs, no matter how many it kills.

The mainstream (political center) are the people who do well on tests, believe in science and are nonviolent. The extreme left and right are violent and incapable of using knowledge. They rely on their religion, politics or superstitious beliefs rather than facts. The extreme left and right both reject medical knowledge, statistics, vaccines, history, reason.

Interested to see some information regarding your statement reference the left side and religious/superstitious beliefs rather than facts. Would like to read that.

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

People want to believe there’s a BoTh sIdE’s equivalency so bad they will refuse to acknowledge the obvious. No one on the left is passing/supporting legislation to protect people who willingly let their children die for religious purposes, or legislation that requires doctors to offer failed/ineffective covid cures, or whatever the witch doctor attorney general of Florida is doing today, or pushing nonsense “right to try” laws. This is all a particular brand of insanity that only exists in the GOP.

LCDFlight wrote:

seb146 wrote:

PPVRA wrote:

Plenty of wackos on the left that don’t believe in modern medicine.

Title is misleading, obviously biased/false and designed to provoke. I recommend the thread be deleted.

Let's just set aside the fact that "the left" do believe in science. Remember which side was screaming about Fauci being a "liberal" and forcing us all to vax up with chemicals to turn us all gay and sterile? What this comes down to is MAGAs legislate their beliefs, no matter how many it kills.

The mainstream (political center) are the people who do well on tests, believe in science and are nonviolent. The extreme left and right are violent and incapable of using knowledge. They rely on their religion, politics or superstitious beliefs rather than facts. The extreme left and right both reject medical knowledge, statistics, vaccines, history, reason.

This is willfully imagining a boogeyman on the left that simply does not exist. There isn’t a single scenario where the left is using religion/politics/superstition rather than facts to push legislation.

It's religion, not politics, isn't it? When I was a child my neighbour ended up with peritonitis thanks to some Christian nutters refusing to get medical help when they were looking after her. They were friends of her parents, who needed to go abroad for a few days. They did finally take her to a hospital before she died (which, fortunately, she did not).

How awful. These types of people on the right would have us living like it is the Middle Ages. I am sure the Earth is still flat for them too.

Pi7472000 wrote:

How awful. These types of people on the right would have us living like it is the Middle Ages. I am sure the Earth is still flat for them too.

Why do you think the majority of them live in middle america or “fly over states” No chance of falling off the edge of the earth there.

For decades, Idaho has allowed an exemption in its Child Protective Act and child injury and abandonment laws for faith healing, letting parents choose to withhold potentially lifesaving treatment without fear of legal repercussions. Since 2014, opponents of faith healing have lobbied the Idaho Legislature to change the law, but efforts have stalled amid concerns over parental rights and religious and medical freedom.

I think people have a duty to protect their children. In health matters of gravity, appropriately qualified care should be obtained. Releasing parents and guardians from the responsibility that bears on all others to care for their children in a reasonable and responsible manner is not justifiable in my view.

The USA has a rather extreme view of religious rights that vary from state to state including as to medical services and treatments. Some religious sects, sometimes compounded by history, lead to rejection of modern medicine.They believe that if a person who is ill lives or dies is by 'gods will'. That includes the refuse blood transfusions or getting another person's blood, refusal to get some or all vaccines, not using man-made medicines, refusals of psychological treatments, and as the OP's linked article features, where a parent/parents declining medical treatment of a child. The state of Idaho lawmakers have been frustrated for years per the linked article in trying to protect children from faith base rejections of medical care by a parent/parents.

Some states have laws that can mandate the override of religious beliefs of parents as to ill children, but it is very difficult, usually requires intervention of the government courts. Also the hospital or other medical provider can be subject to civil lawsuits and referral for criminal charges to the local government attorney for prosecution for denial of their religious rights.Children also have very few specified civil rights in the USA on the state or federal levels unlike many countries where children are specifically protected by their highest laws or equivalent of the USA's Constitution.

As is usual, everything turns into a political fight which leads to pointless personal attacks, and no one is bothering to discuss the topic. The thread is locked.

✈️ atcsundevil