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b764
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:49 am

O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:43 am

I visit a.net often, and either missed this news or it never got posted. I did a search, but nothing was found. Sorry if this is a dead issue.

Press Release
For Immediate Release:
August 6, 2003


Contact Information:
Mayor's Press Office
(312) 744-3334

GOV. BLAGOJEVICH SIGNS O'HARE AIRPORT MODERNIZATION BILL; PROJECT MEANS THOUSANDS OF JOBS FOR ILLINOIS, MAYOR DALEY SAYS

Hails Team Effort in Passing Bill to Upgrade Airport



Mayor Richard M. Daley joined Gov. Rod Blagojevich and business and civic leaders today as the Governor signed legislation authorizing the O'Hare Modernization Program.

The project will create 195,000 new jobs for the people of Illinois and maintain Chicago's position as the aviation crossroads of the Northern Hemisphere, Daley said at a ceremony at the airport.

The modernization program includes reconfigured runways; improved road access, including western access; new terminals; additional parking; and the closing of two northwest-southeast runways.

It will be financed through fees paid by airport users and not through local or state taxes.

Daley noted that the modernized O'Hare will reduce delays; save money for passengers and airlines; make it easier for travelers to get to and from Chicago; and generate $18 billion of annual economic activity on top of the more than $38 billion it generates today.

"And, best of all," he said, "it will create 195,000 new jobs for the hard-working people of the State of Illinois. Thousands of construction workers will be needed to build the airport. Then we're looking at thousands of jobs in the hospitality industry – at airport concessions, in hotels and restaurants, at McCormick Place and in all the other businesses that are devoted to serving tourists and business travelers.

"And we can expect to see thousands of new jobs with the national and international companies that are attracted to Chicago because our airport enables them to move people and goods around the world quickly and efficiently."

"The expansion of O'Hare doesn't just affect Chicago or northern Illinois or just benefit one or two carriers," Gov. Blagojevich said. "The legislation I'm proud to sign today benefits the entire state of Illinois. The modernization of O'Hare will help to spur our state's economy, create nearly 200,000 jobs, reduce travel delays, and retain Illinois' preeminence as a world-class transportation center.

"Many from government – federal, state, and local – labor, business, and the aviation community worked together in a bipartisan and visionary way to make sure that O'Hare airport would continue to grow and prosper," the Governor continued. "But Mayor Daley deserves special recognition for his tireless efforts, perseverance and leadership on getting us to this momentous point."

The Mayor praised Gov. Blagojevich for his consistent support of the O'Hare project since his days as a member of Congress.

"Governor Blagojevich, when you sign the O'Hare Modernization Bill in a few minutes, you will be telling the world that Chicago and Illinois intend to maintain their national leadership in the field of transportation and aviation," Daley said.

The Mayor also thanked House Speaker Dennis Hastert, U.S. Rep. Bill Lipinski, U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin and other members of Congress who supported the project, along with members of the Illinois General Assembly, including House Speaker Michael J. Madigan, Senate President Emil Jones Jr., Senate Minority Leader Frank Watson and House Minority Leader Tom Cross.

He also praised Cook County Board President John Stroger, DuPage County Board President Robert Schillerstrom and leaders of the business community, organized labor, community organizations and suburban governments who worked for passage of the bill.

"This was truly a team effort – business and labor; city, suburbs and Downstate; Republicans and Democrats working together to create new jobs and new opportunity for the people of Illinois," he said.

The legislation enables the project to proceed as efficiently as possible, consistent with federal safety and environmental reviews. It states the General Assembly's intent that "all agencies of this State and its subdivisions shall facilitate the efficient and expeditious completion" of the O'Hare project.

O'Hare modernization is expected to reduce overall delays by 79 percent, saving an estimated $370 million for the airline industry and $380 million for its customers.

An agreement between the City and the airlines has secured $2.9 billion dollars of funding to build the first phase of the project. The first phase represents more than 60 percent of the airfield work that needs to be done to fully modernize O'Hare. It begins the project in a way that ensures its ultimate completion.

The mayor urged the state's Congressional delegation to help obtain the approval of the Federal Aviation Administration, the last remaining step before construction can begin.

At one time weren't they going to scale back expansion due to the airlines problems. It appears that everything is full steam ahead. Does this include the additional terminal w/ tram on the western side of ORD? What is the time frame for all this? Somewhere I read possibly 2008?
 
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jsnww81
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:52 am

The expansion is definitely going ahead, although I'm not sure about the west-side terminal complex.

Remember that the World Gateway program is also getting underway along with the FACE program.

FACE will rebuild the curbside areas of T1, T2 and T3 and extend T2 and T3 almost 20 feet towards the street. That will add much-needed circulation space (especially in the American Airlines check-in area). A new canopy over the roadway is also currently under construction.

The World Gateway includes construction of T4 for Oneworld flights, T6 for nonhubbing carriers (Delta, Spirit, Continental, HP, Northwest and the like) and the conversion of T2 into a Star Alliance facility.

The program in the topic question will reconfigure the runways to create parallel arrival and departure streams. Dirt work is already well underway for the north side runway adjacent to Higgins Road.

So basically, ORD will have a lot going on over the next few years. FACE should be done by 2005, although I don't know when the other two programs will wrap up. I haven't seen any work underway on the World Gateway yet.
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:30 am

YES!!!

Hey everyone, I'm a new user and an "official" Chicago O'Hare enthusiast...what a great topic for my first post! Though I think the current "setup" for the airport is great and I wouldn't change the terminals too much, I realize that the expansion programs are necessary to maintain O'Hare's position as world's busiest (in terms of aircraft movements) and best airport. One question for you guys: Do you think the World Gateway terminal is necessary though? I mean, the current international terminal, while often busy, never seems like it's overburdened? Also, I read a Tribune articule recently that said there is still some debate about the parallel runway configurations--ATC controllers are fighting it because they feel it will create too many runway crossings...

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b764
Topic Author
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:49 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:29 am

ILoveORD, welcome to a.net. I too read the article about ATC discussing the proposed runway problem. This is truly exciting news for Chicago. Will any of this expansion lead to new carriers, Air China, Cathay, ? Who was/is supposed to use the proposed west terminal? I do like the idea of a west entrance. I'm just truly excited to see this not get bogged down in the courts. Anyone know the timeframe for the project?

 
Guest

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:33 pm

It's a beautiful thing isn't it? Now if only a few other Governors and Mayors would get their heads out the sand and do the same.... Are you listening California, New York and DC????

GROW A PAIR!!!!

Way to go CHI TOWN!

[Edited 2003-09-15 14:34:56]
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:15 pm

Wow Airliners.net people praising Daley for once, that is an odd sight indeed.
 
Guest

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:16 pm

Well, that's about the only thing I'd praise him for.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:17 pm

All 3 expansion projects are needed. This will insure United and American's future in Chicago. Plus we also will probably get a new hub carrier once the West Terminal is built as well as expanding Star and oneworld's presence in the city. My guess would be Delta or Northwest would be the new carrier. That West Terminal by York Road and Thorndale Avenue would postpone the chances of Peotone being built which in my mind 'is a beautiful thing.'
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:18 pm

Even though I don't live in the city, I'm a Daley Democrat
 
Heinz
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 1:34 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:53 pm

Hello,

here you will find a lot of info about the modernization plan, including proposed runway layout etc.

http://modernization.ohare.com/program_pages/news.htm
http://modernization.ohare.com/misc/2527%20-%20ALP%20Public%20Handout--Final.pdf

Best regards,
Heinz
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:18 am

B764,

Where is the west entrance going to connect to; possibly I-290? But that's kind of far away, that would seem kind of weird because I'm just so used to coming in off 294...can you imagine what it would be like? Maybe something like Charles de Gaulle where you can pass through the airport by going through tunnels under the runways?!? Speaking of new carriers,

ORD Boy,

Is the West Terminal going to serve as hub for a carrier like T1 and T3 for United and American? Also, I think the Star Alliance and Oneworld would probably use the World Gatewat terminal (if built)--I'm not sure if that's a definite go ahead?

Yeah, I don't think we need Peotone--yet. But we'll see what happens in a few years, maybe a decade or so, when they're so much traffic coming in to O'Hare, that the first ones to get pushed out will be regionals...?

I hope they don't change the T1,T2,T3 terminal areas TOO much, I kinda like they way they are now...

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Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2687
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RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:44 am

So there will be 8 runways now? isn't 7 enough I never see more than 4 get used at once.
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:35 am

No ILoveORD the West Terminal will be indeed used for other airlines. My guess is that it will be used to lure a 3rd hub carrier. Think if the big 3 all had their hubs at ORD! THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ckfred
Posts: 5189
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:49 am

If the West Terminal is built, then the plan is to build a connecting highway between I-294 and I-90 that would loop around the field on the south and west sides.

As for the issue of planes crossing parallel runways, ATL, DFW, and LAX have similar layouts. I've never been to DFW, but at ATL and LAX, arriving aircraft always land on the outer runways, then taxi across the inner runways, which are used for departures.

At ATL, it's not uncommon to see 2, 3, or even 4 planes holding short of a departure runway at several different taxiways, than taxi across simultaneously when there is a gap in the departure line.

While having aircraft taxiing across active departure runways is a concern, ORD often has take-offs and landings on intersecting runways. The solution is LAHSO, which the pilots hate, or string out the planes, which irritates the passengers caught in delays.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:03 am

So there will be 8 runways now? isn't 7 enough I never see more than 4 get used at once.

The present configuration precludes more runways than that being used - and I seriously doubt all 4 get used simultaneously now.

The new configuration will allow for either triple or quadruple simultaneous ILS approaches with concurrent departures.

N
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:24 am

Wow, that would be cool if ORD got 3 big carriers!

Hey, Ckfred, your profile says you're from Downer's Grove...I'm from Lemont! I wrote Chicago on mine because that's where I was born and raised, plus, I figure I'd just list the metropolitan area I live in. But anyway, do you think the west entrance would be necessary, I mean, I-90 and 294 are already on the east side of the field where most of the traffic from downtown comes from (I-90) and all north and south traffic comes in from 294. And if you do come in from the northwest on I-90 (say Schaumberg or Barrington), you only have to drive a few more miles (the width of the airport) to connect to 294 and go south. I'm not sure if this second entrance will alleviate traffic or create more of it? I know 294 traffic can get heavy, but once at O'Hare, I've never really had many problems...

By the way, what is LAHSO and why do pilots hate it?

Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
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jsnww81
Posts: 2542
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RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:15 am

To the best of my knowledge, the West Terminal will NOT be constructed any time soon.

The plan in the current expansion is to acquire the land for the West Terminal and prepare the site - but ORD simply does not have the demand for a huge new terminal of that scope.

As I said before - United will fill T1 and T2, American will take T3 and T4, the non-alliance international flights (and probably some domestic flights) will use T5, and all other domestic services will use T6.

I'll be very, very surprised if the West Terminal gets built in the next 15 years. I think the main purpose of that terminal is long-range: it will give ORD extra capacity in the future and push back any development in Peotone. It's all strategic, people.

Don't get too excited about another hub carrier at ORD - the West Terminal isn't coming any time soon.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:27 am

"I mean, the current international terminal, while often busy, never seems like it's overburdened?"

Yes it is. Go to T5 at 4pm on Saturday.

"All 3 expansion projects are needed. This will insure United and American's future in Chicago. Plus we also will probably get a new hub carrier once the West Terminal is built as well as expanding Star and oneworld's presence in the city. My guess would be Delta or Northwest would be the new carrier. "

Northwest at ORD with a hub? Thats so impractical. DTW and MSP are close as it is... Delta...dont think so either. There is not a hub in the world that I can think of that has 3 megacarriers. ORD is your biggest 2 megaairline hub in the world.

". Will any of this expansion lead to new carriers, Air China, Cathay, ? Who was/is supposed to use the proposed west terminal?"

"Is the West Terminal going to serve as hub for a carrier like T1 and T3 for United and American? Also, I think the Star Alliance and Oneworld would probably use the World Gatewat terminal (if built)--I'm not sure if that's a definite go ahead?

Yeah, I don't think we need Peotone--yet. But we'll see what happens in a few years, maybe a decade or so, when they're so much traffic coming in to O'Hare, that the first ones to get pushed out will be regionals...?

I hope they don't change the T1,T2,T3 terminal areas TOO much, I kinda like they way they are now..."

WHAT are you talking about? The STAR terminals will be T1 and T2 and OneWorld will most likely be T3 and possibly T5. Peotone is an idea that will never work...why? Look at the map where it is.

"So there will be 8 runways now? isn't 7 enough I never see more than 4 get used at once."

You must go to ORD rarely because they use 5 often. You will have 22R, 27L, 27R for arrivals and 32R, 32L, 27L and 4L for departures. Thats 6 runways in use.


Depends if the demand will be there...CX and Air China already do have cargo ops to ORD.

"Even though I don't live in the city, I'm a Daley Democrat "

This is the only good thing Daley ever did. Remember how he destroyed Meigs, holds the city road construction mafia, basically gives free money to blacks in S. Chicago and raises taxes...Daley SUCKS big time man. He is only doing this because its more money for him.

"And if you do come in from the northwest on I-90 (say Schaumberg or Barrington), "

That would be Schaumburg, where I live.

[Edited 2003-09-16 02:29:46]
 
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jsnww81
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RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:36 am

THANK YOU, LOT767!

At the risk of flaming, I do get tired of the constant stream of gibberish that some of the users on this site churn out. It seems to have gotten really bad in the past year. Every time I read a post, it's full of misspelled comments that make no sense, haven't been thought out, or are nothing more than wishful thinking.

Three hub carriers at ORD? Ha. Remember the United-Continental-Frontier triumverate at Denver Stapleton back in the 1980s, and look how well THAT turned out. Or maybe the Braniff-American-Delta combo at DFW? Three hubs is too many for any airport, even the mighty ORD, to sustain. That's why TWA shut down its ORD hub in the early 1980s when United and American started building up their ops.

Problem is, a lot of people making these claims weren't alive back then. Think before you post, people!

**Ranting over**
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:47 am

Jsn, just finished reading a great book called "Hard Landing" about Lorenzo, Crandall, Ferris, Burr, Bakes, Kelleher, Smith, Casey and Wolf and their respective airlines. A great read and a must if anyone is serious about looking back at the history of the fare wars since deregulation.

"I'll be very, very surprised if the West Terminal gets built in the next 15 years. I think the main purpose of that terminal is long-range: it will give ORD extra capacity in the future and push back any development in Peotone. It's all strategic, people.

Don't get too excited about another hub carrier at ORD - the West Terminal isn't coming any time soon. "

I can assure you that unless UAL or AA either go kaput or cut ORD as a hub (Obviously UA wont since its from Chicago and ORD is technically the #1 O&D and Int'l hub for AA) ORD wont see another airline hubbed at the airport.

If there is demand then the terminal will be built. I think its feasable in 8-10 years but not yet.

"The present configuration precludes more runways than that being used - and I seriously doubt all 4 get used simultaneously now."

They do, like I said this happens almost daily. You can actually call Chicago ORD ATIS @ 1-773-601-8921 to hear what runways are in use and the current weather conditions. Today with west winds we had 22R ILS, 27R Visual, 27L ILS landing and 32R, 32L, 27L, and 4R Departures.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2132
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:27 am

Glad to see work getting done in the slow times, when traffic picks up, ORD will be ready for it.

Surprised they have already started work on the runways, any up to date sites that show the phases of runway construction going on currently? I know what it is planned to look like, but I am very curious to monitor the progress.

George
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:37 am

LOT767, how about you get your ideas in order before you decide to call anyone out? You site quotes from multiple users and from multiple posts and then you rattle-off half-baked, unthoughtful, and plain unclear responses. So let's delineate your responses:

"Yes it is. Go to T5 at 4pm on Saturday." -LOT767

Yeah, iT5 International does get busy in the mid-morning/early-afternoon with arrivals from Europe and Asia and then picks up again in the late-afternoon as they depart. But so what? The terminal is busy during peak hours, that means it's overburdened?

"WHAT are you talking about? The STAR terminals will be T1 and T2 and OneWorld will most likely be T3 and possibly T5. Peotone is an idea that will never work...why? Look at the map where it is." --LOT 767

No no my friend, what are YOU talking about? First of all, most, if not all, international STAR members already use T5 international (though LH and UA use T1 also) for their gates and it would seem logical for them to also have gates at another international terminal (ie WorldGateway). As far as the OneWorld--I just tossed that as a possibility (and a likely one too) for when space runs at T3.

But here's the real kicker; your reason for discrediting my Peotone argument (note: I never said it won't work, just that it's not NEEDED YET!!) is its location on a map. Wow, a small airport on the fringes of southern Will county, a good 45min. to hour away from O'Hare and at least 30min from Midway! Yeah, good one, it's location is so great...it's bound to be successful, right?!?!?

"That would be Schaumberg, where I live." --LOT767

So? What's your point? I was just using it as an example of someone who might use I-90 to get to O'Hare...what's your excuse?

"[Daley] basically gives free money to blacks in S. Chicago and raises taxes" --LOT767

Not only is this statement a testament to your faulty, immature, and borderline racist logic, it's also ABSOLUTELY ridiculous!! Free money?? Listen buddy, I don't know what kind of stories that told you back in the ole' country before you got off the boat (er, plane) about America, but no, we do not have roads paved with gold nor do we give away free money. Rozumiej???




[Edited 2003-09-16 04:38:48]

[Edited 2003-09-16 04:39:21]
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
ILoveORD
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:20 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:19 pm

Just did a mapquest search on Peotone. Turns out it's further than I thought: 60 miles from O'Hare (at least 1 hour drive); 40 miles to Midway (at least 50 mins); and 44 miles to downtown (at least 50 mins also). Yeah LOT767, with incentives like this, it's a wonder UA and AA don't want to send regionals to Peotone's superb location so that their pax can drive for at an hour or more (if you know anything about Chicago traffic, these times are quite optimistic and don't account for perennial congestion on I-55 and 294) to get to connecting flights at O'Hare or conferences in downtown.
Backhanding the left into submission, one activist judge at a time.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: O'hare Expansion?

Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:07 pm

Are you people out of your minds? There is no chance in hell for another carrier (especially the ones suggested) to hub at ORD. These projects are geared toward strengthening oneworld and Star presence.

Why would NW need another hub when they have DTW, MSP, & a mini-hub in MKE? DL has CVG in the midwest, as well as their new partnership with NW & CO which already have strong hubs in the midwest US.

UA and Star is likely to remain the same in ORD.

AA, on the other hand, might make ORD as big as a hub for them as DFW with the closing of STL. OneWorld presence will likely strengthen as Qantas will be starting ORD service in the future. With the domestic codeshare agreement with BA & AA now set up, ORD may become like a LHR (if it's not already like it). OneWorld has a bright future ahead and this may well be the next worldwide hub for them.

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