Whenever someone asks about difficult approaches, Tegucigalpa comes up. Can anyone be a little more specific on WHY it is so difficult? I've seen the picutres, but sometimes words tell more than pictures.

Thanks

High altitude, mandating higher ground speeds on approach and at landing, and tight proximity to geographic features (cumulo-granite).

I have flown into TGU on a number of occasions, both in the cockpit and as a passenger. It is far less scary in the cockpit than as a passenger, that much is for certain. Here is why:

TGU sits in a valley, with high mountains all around. There is an opening between the mountains at the north end of the valley through which you make your approach and you make your departure. I will now give you the briefing for the VOR/DME RWY 01 approach at MHTG.

This chart comes directly from the USAF NIMA files, based on the DAFIF filed every 28 days. The initial approach brings you in over the airport at 19000 feet. You decend in a circling pattern down to 9000 feet and roll out on a heading of 198 inbound to the Toncotin VOR, crossing the VOR at 9000 feet. You depart the VOR outbound on the 198 radial to 7 DME from the VOR. This leg must be flown very precisely, because you have high terrain at all all quadrants up to 8500 to the west, 7900 to the south, 8600 to the north and east.

Once you are at the 7 DME, you make a right turn to 243 degrees for one minute, and descend to 8000. At the end of the one minute leg, you do a procedure turn back on a heading of 063 back toward the 198 radial, but this time, you will be flying inbound toward it. Once the 198 radial starts to come into range, execute a left turn onto heading 018 degrees and descend to 6700 feet. You should be at 6700 feet by five miles from the Missed Approach Point. In addtion, on your way down, there are terrain obstacles within 1/4 mile of your course line, beginning at the 5 DME inbound, three obstacles at 5446', 5660', and 5118 feet respectively. Then you have the final approach.

Here is where it gets sticky: From the chart: "WARNING: Terrain located out to 1.6nm from runway 01 threshold, left and right of centerline., from 3465 MSL to 4013 MSL. Highest terrain left of centerline located 463' left and 1.5nm from threshold at 4013MSL. Highest terrain right of centerlilne located 293' right and 1.6nm from threshold at 3983 MSL. The touchdown zone is 3294 MSL with a 1 degree slope down. The landing zone is 5462'. The missed approach point is 1.6nm from the threshold and you must be at least 1000 ft above 3983 MSL for safe clearance of the terrain. From the chart: "WARNING: Extreme rate of descent may be required if the runway not sighted until the MAP (1368ft/nm).

In other words, as you get closer to the airport, the terrain closes in on you from both sides and comes up on you from below. At 1.6nm, you finally clear the obstacle at 3963 feet, but you need to be at 4963 feet to clear it. Then you have 1.6nm to get down to 3300 feet over the threshold. The target is 700 feet down the runway. When you touch down, you have about 5000 feet of runway left. If you overshoot, there is a 300 foot cliff at the end of the runway. There is a road that runs directly underneath the end of the runway, followed by a ravine that continues down another 400-500 feet. At the end of the runway, there is a 200 foot gravel zone, then a fence, then the cliff.

At MHTG, you often go missed the first time. If you miss, the procedure is to climb to 6500 feet via the TNT VOR 008 radial remaining within 6.5nm, then a left climbing turn to 9000 feet directly back to the TNT VOR, then outbound again on the 198 radial for your second attempt.

Needless to say, there have been numerous accidents at MHTG. Most of the time, they are runway overruns when landing in the other direction on rwy 19. That approach is even worse, because you have to come in between the mountains, then plant the aircraft right on the numbers, because there is an optical illusion there that makes you believe that you have more runway than you actually do. When I landed there the first time on 19, we came in low and we touched down just on the numbers, the nose gear was down 1 second after the mains were down (kind of with a bang) and then full reverse, full braking action and we stopped about 300 feet short of the end of the runway...in a 732.

The next time I landed there, I was in a 727-100. We landed on runway 1. I was in the cockpit with a Honduran pilot. When we swung around to line up with the runway, we were at 6700 at the right spot, but he crossed the MAP above 5000 feet. He did a manuever I continue to shake my head at to this day. He already had most of his flaps down, he went to full flaps, dropped the gear and executed a sideslip which made us sink like a rock...all of this in about 3 seconds. For about 10 seconds, I actually though we were going to come in short and hard. Believe it or not, 10 seconds later, we were just a little high on the approach with the speed sufficient to keep us flying. He landed a little long on the touchdown zone and buried his feet on the toebrakes and the f/o pulled back on the reversers and we stopped really fast. I didn't think a old 727 could even do that. I also promised myself that I would never fly with another Honduran pilot. They are certifiable.

Bottom line is, put yourself in a PMDG 737 and try it yourself. Make sure you have good terrain and not the regular Microsoft stuff...it doesn't give you a true taste of what it really feels as the terrain closes in on you on the approach to rwy 1. However, once you've done it a couple of times, you get the hang of it. From what I understand, the AA guys with the 757 really were able to show what that aircraft could do. They take off from that runway and literally climb over the mountains. On approach, the aircraft is so nimble that once your over the hump at the 1.6nm MAP, its just a slight lowering of the nose for about 10 seconds and they are over the threshold and a slight pull back and they are on the runway and stopped well before the end of the runway without breaking a sweat.

Now I hope you understand why TGU is such a challenging airport. Oh and by the way, try to land when its summertime and its pouring buckets of rain and the runway is a lake.

That's life in Central America. I actually prefer El Salvador. 10000 feet of new asphalt and no terrain in sight. Its a beautiful thing. I connect there sometimes when I go to Managua, another airport with a long runway and no terrain in sight. Guatemala is the only place where you really have to duck the volcanoes. But that's another story.

baw716

Actually, since a few years ago, straight-in approaches have been forbidden from the VOR 01 approach for jets.

The MDA at the 5 miles fix is now 5700' (many local pilots will bust that altitude, especially on the VOR 19, where it's 6000', some will go down to 4500', but with a good GPS and a disconnected GPWS...), and from there all jets are to fly overhead the airport and circle on the left pattern for the 01.

They'll allow pistons and small turboprops to do the straight-in, only if the pilot requests it and is familiar with the airfield.

I personnally much prefered the VOR 19 approach circling to land 01, but I guess the confidence came with doing it so much.

BAW716, you're the man! Exactly the kind of posting I had hoped someone would make. Welcome to my RR list!     

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 2): put yourself in a PMDG 737

He he, almost... you must have read my mind. I was indeed going to try it in FS, but in a TACA A319. Just wanted this kind of stories to give me more of a kick when trying it. I'll let you know how many attempts I'll need...

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 2): Guatemala is the only place where you really have to duck the volcanoes. But that's another story.

.... err, mind telling that one as well? You write those things in a very fascinating way.     

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 3): Actually, since a few years ago, straight-in approaches have been forbidden from the VOR 01 approach for jets.

That's strange AA, CO and AeroHonduras land with straight approches everyday!!. it's a pilots decision. TA and CM they make the overfly. And by the way runway numbers were changed sometime ago now they are 02/20.

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 2): would never fly with another Honduran pilot.

Many will disagree with you including myself Honduran pilots make the landing look easy compared specially with US military pilots. Few months ago a C-17 made 6 missed approches before landing. But that your opinion and I respect it.


hr001

AA pilots must fly to TGU at least once every 90 days or they lose their certification to do so. Takeoff on the AA 757 out of TGU is amazing.

At this site you can find charts for Toncontin and most of Central American Airports. I'll be updating some of the charts soon. Try them in FS!

CostaRicaAviation.com
  

Just go to the Aero Charts section and you will see the list of countries and airports. Hope you enjoy it.

Andre  

Quoting CRAviation (Reply 7): CostaRicaAviation.com

Great page. Congratulations.

Mozart,
Thank you. The reason I don't like the 319 for this is that it is too easy to fly it. You just set the MCDU and it flies itself. Not very much fun. The PMDG 737, you can fly in managed flight down to whatever point you want, then kickout the entire automated system and fly it by hand. The 319 is designed to be flown by computer down to about 500 feet (most pilots I've seen fly it in steep approaches kick out the a/p, but stay in managed speed all the way to the runway), and hand flown to the runway. The 737-700 with the winglets is especially nice, because I can fly the thing by hand on the flight director precisely, then at 1500 AGL drop the a/t and control the speed by hand down to the runway. I prefer having full control myself, since if I have to bail out, I simply firewall the throttles, set flaps 20 and climb.

To explain the Aurora approach at GUA, I'll have to pull the chart. I'll come back on that one.

HR001, it was not my intent to offend Honduran pilots by my statement. I am certain they know that airport better than the back of their hand and can land anything on that airport in any conditions. My statement at the time was simply the fact that the pilot I was sitting jump with I personally think did a very dangerous manuever (in other words, I would have done it differently and got the same result), to get to the runway. His sink rate was too fast and I personally think he was lucky to pull it out when he did. Another 3 seconds and we would have planted ourselves into the threshold of the runway and certainly would have left the tail there. I was a lot younger at the time and was not as knowledgeable as I am today. That said, I still think the manuever was not the correct approach for a steep angle descent and flair, especially in a 727 in which you have place the aircraft on the runway, not flair back and let the rear wheels settle.

Finally, if the runways are 02/20, why are they not updated in the DAFIF file? This is a very big deal and the chart I pulled was from the 0507 DAFIF file, which is current until Aug 6 or 7. If the runway has been changed (and I believe you, since you are there) the charts should be updated.

In closing, MHTG is a very unique airport and a very challenging place to operate. Your skills need to be very good to operate there, lest you make one mistake and permanently become part of the landscape....as people have done in the past....God rest their souls.

baw716

I once heard or read, perhaps on this site, something that since then nobody has really confirmed...

...How true is it that AA has four select destinations [Tegucigalpa, La Paz, Medellin and Quito] which are worthy of special considerations, specifically pilot training-wise?

It would be much appreciated if answered.





SOUTHAMERICA