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FLYACYYZ
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 36):
What are the rules on Praying on an a/c?
Are there any written rules?

I predominantly work TLV flights, and quite simply as long as the safe operation of the aircraft is not impeded, it is simply one of the "nuances" of that flight, and we try to be as accomodating as possible.

I think this whole thread is a gross exaggeration, and am not aware that we (AC) are in the habit of evicting customers from flights. I have only witnessed customers being deplaned for displaying intoxicated, unruly, or obviously medically unfit for travel. As pointed out, this was also a Jazz flight, which in many respects operates as its own entity.

What's next?? Often Catholic customers cross themselves prior to boarding. Am I to interpret this as them giving last rites to the aircraft? This seems to be another one of those threads which breeds ignorance and intolerance.
Above and Beyond
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:25 pm

Gents, I was just thinking that yes, people are uncomfortable with encantations in different languages and strangely dressed people who pray outloud in planes.

But as I was on the subway today, I realised that many people are witch hunting. And, in their view, it's legit. BUT, it seems that we have already condemed someone who has broken no laws, and are persecuting someone who wanted to pray.

It's almost like anyone who is different is guilty of making the majority uncomfortable.

Just my $.02.
 
moek2000
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plan

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:44 pm

Being a Muslim and all, I too, pray during flights. What I usually do is let the flight attendants know that I'm praying and I ask them before I do it.

So far, every flight attendant I've asked have said yes.

On my 14 hr flight from DXB to JFK on EK, the flight attendant even let me use the back of the plane to pray.

UA, AF, and DL FAs had absolutely no problem w/ me.

All u gotta do is ask.
 
Lemurs
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:54 pm

Quoting Moek2000 (Reply 106):
All u gotta do is ask.

That's assuming you and the FA's speak the same language...which wasn't true here. Poor guy wouldn't have been able to even if he wanted to.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
EK345
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:27 pm

I think another serious issue here is the reaction of the FA...

"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said."

I trust that disciplinary procedures have been initiated as a result of this lack of professionalism. AC is an international carrier and its crews should behave accordingly.

That's my 2 cents. It's really unfortunate to see the lack of education and acceptance of other peoples faiths and beliefs.

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 43):
of 9/11, you will see what happened as a result of 'relaxed approach'..

no, what happened on 11Sep01 was NOT the result of a relaxed approach and of tolerance, it was the result of shoddy security-precautions, shoddy surveillance of "students", lack of co-ordination between law-enforcement-agencies etc.

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 88):
Saudis do the same??

No, of course NOT "doing the same", but some of them also being rather difficult customers, while we in both cases have to abstain from generalizing, as in reality most of each "group" behave quite normally in general.
 
Toulouse
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting A332 (Reply 78):
Whatever folks, you can say what you want...

Thanks A332!

Quoting A332 (Reply 78):
A person acting a like a lunatic and disturbing others is just that... a lunatic.

But where does it state in the article he was acting like a "lunatic" and "distubing others".

Quoting JHTango (Reply 91):
The problem here is very simple. Most people are just intolerant or worst, IGNORANT

Unfortunately JHTango, you seem to be right. Good post btw.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 104):
This seems to be another one of those threads which breeds ignorance and intolerance.

I agree, and it's a pity this is the case.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
B707Stu
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 3):
Yep, I know a lot of people are doing this. But if they are violating safety rules like praying while taxiing for takeoff and they are not on their seat with their seatbelt fastened I think it's ok to warn someone and if one doesn't comply throw them out.

I remember my sister saying (F/A for Hapag Fly) on a flight to Tel Aviv that some jewish pax were getting up as early as the gear was retracted to pray in the aisle. They were also violating a lot of safety regulations and were getting up again just as the plane touched down.
I think this is not alright. Even if you religion wants you to pray at certain times or you have to wash yourself quite so often you should stick to the rules in an airplane or otherwise you can't fly on one.

But as the passenger was only praying in his seat I find it rather strange to force him to disembark. But I myself must admit cause I'm not so fond with other religions so I would be a little bit scared when someone beside me is praying inaudible and lurching back and for.



Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 7):
thats not right! i have seen jews skipping boarding lines on a FR flight which is unacceptable but anyone could do that!

It's frightening how history often repeats itself in the oddest and strangest moments. Clearly none of us were there but if the reports are right that he was standing then of course tell him to sit down, many people stand during taxi and are instructed to sit down. If he was in his seat with his belt fastened and seat in the upright position than it's ridiculous, whatever the faith. Often people pray, of all religions, on take off and landing and even sometimes during the flight.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 47):
so are you suggesting that praying for an orthodox jew is ok on a plane but not for an arab?

Haggis, everybody can and should pray if he/she wants to. However it should be done in a way that nowbody else is offended. I have tralled on QR and EK and on both flights muslims were praying, but you hardly regcognized it.

I mean to be honest, when I stepped into AF´s 744 for GIG and I saw my seat and the guy next to me, I stated praying too.....  Big grin
 
beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:37 pm

Well I'm a Roman Catholic and I pray the Liturgy of the Hours daily. I also sing Gregorian Chant in a choir. Next time I fly I think I'll chant my prayers in Latin instead of reading them silently, just to get under people's skin!

Really this is getting out of hand. Have we become so secularized that secular is now the Official State Religion, and anything else is forbidden in public? When the Canadian Gov't had a memorial for the Swissair disaster a few years ago, they forbade the mention of "Jesus Christ" at the multi-denominational memorial service for fear of offending non-Christians. Sigh...

That said, I always find Orthodox Jewish prayer fascinating. The habit of praying the Psalms has carried over into Christian, especially Catholic and Orthodox, liturgy. I am always amazed at this tradition that goes back thousands of years. Catholic and Jewish liturgy have many parallels (and a common source!). The durability of these traditions should be a testament to their relevance, even today.

Go in peace...

Beech
 
gearup
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 97):
Baldguy, I do believe that this is your personal opinion (as well as mine, by the way) and I hope that the majority of Canadians does think so, but this is obviously not true for the majority of your fellow Canadians in this thread, unfortunately...

Haggis79, You are quite correct. This thread has brought out some folk who obviousley have a hatred for religon and the religious. It would seem to me that if they got their way, religious persecution would be the order of the day in Canada. Thank GOD that is not the case. I would imagine this whole AC incident was a mixture of misjudgement and common fear.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:58 pm

I remember escorting a group of 35 Peace Corps Volunteers when one recruit started reciting the torah and praying. I told him to knock it off, and that it made him stand out (a Peace Corps no no). He put away his stuff, and you know what, never saw him pray during training. I think he was just trying to show off.

LPLAspotter
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PanHAM
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:20 pm

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 109):
Well I'm a Roman Catholic and I pray the Liturgy of the Hours daily. I also sing Gregorian Chant in a choir. Next time I fly I think I'll chant my prayers in Latin instead of reading them silently, just to get under people's skin!

If you are wearing a monks habit you might even get away with it. On the other hand, I just imagine a couple of guys starting Gregorian chants on an airplane.....to be honest, without preparation I'd be scared too. Better come here to the Rheingau and sing in Kloster Eberbach (location of "The name of the Rose"), the acoustic is much better there, they build it for the purpose.

Which leads me to the point, whatever you do, do it at the right time at the right place. If I am not mistaken, all Religions give excemptions for travellers, you don't have to do the full rites while on an aircraft or a train. A silent prayer will do.
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frequentflyer
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:45 pm

Looks like my latest post was deleted, albeit bearing no insults and in line with forum guidelines. Any sense of humor anyone?

But I will say it again: you can be a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or whatever, being in a public place requires you not to annoy other people present.

And that's the same for everybody. Not happy about it? Then live in seclusion.

If you are loud, disrespectful, causing incomfort, well you expose yourself to consequences.

In this case it looks like a mix of this and a poorly trained Flight Attendant.
Take off and live
 
INDIANABRIDOU
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:07 pm

Indianabridou

Quoting 777fan (Reply 66):
Quoting Indianabridou (Reply 61):
I DON'T PRANCE AROUND PRAYING AND FORNICATING IN MID-AIR IMPOSING MY WAYS AND VIEWS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND ON EVERYONE, I KEEP TO MYSELF WHEN NOT SURROUNDED BY MY TYPE OF PEOPLE, THAT'S WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD DO.

FIRST, CONSIDER HITTING THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON. Then, reconsider comparing fornicating with praying. Finally, understand that someone praying in public does not mean that they're trying to impose their views upon you. If a fully clothed person approached you, would you contend they were trying to convince you to wear clothes?

Sorry for the cap locks!!!

I wasn't comparing the two , I was merely trying to make a point;I believe that in a closed environment like an aircraft you should not "flaunt" your views, it's not ignorance, it's plain respect and "savoir-vivre" for the peolpe around you, I don't impose my views and I respect others, I am a tolerant person, doesn't matter what religion is involved, there are times when you must keep to yourself and I believe that should include air travel, has anyone ever seen someone pray at the Opera, movie theatre or in the middle of a supermarket???, and most religious people all frequent these types of places.That's all.

I also was kidding when I said "I'M A NUDIST CATHOLIC AND A SWINGER"
 
legoguy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:20 pm

I must admit, if some guy was sitting next to me as described, with clothing over his head, rocking backwards and forwards, praying out loud... I would be a little scared.

Imagine this guy had turned out to be a very nervous suicide bomber and he bought the plane down. Many people would be saying why was he not stopped if he was acting suspiciously before take off?

I respect that the guy wants to pray, so if he does pray, he could possibly have done it silently and without rocking backwards and forwards...
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 112):
Which leads me to the point, whatever you do, do it at the right time at the right place. If I am not mistaken, all Religions give excemptions for travellers, you don't have to do the full rites while on an aircraft or a train. A silent prayer will do.

Obviously when travelling I simply read from my breviary, but I may cross myself at various points in the liturgy. I was speaking facetiously about the chant...which anyway is intended to be sung in choir (or as I do as well, in private). My experience travelling with Orthodox Jews is that although they gesticulate and wear liturgical apparel, they do NOT pray loudly enough to be annoying. Anybody who would be "annoyed" by an Orthodox saying his prayers, has greater issues than the guy praying.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 115):
I must admit, if some guy was sitting next to me as described, with clothing over his head, rocking backwards and forwards, praying out loud... I would be a little scared.

Imagine this guy had turned out to be a very nervous suicide bomber and he bought the plane down. Many people would be saying why was he not stopped if he was acting suspiciously before take off?

Legoguy: it's pretty easy to recongnize an Orthdox Jew. It may reassure you to know that:

1) All Orthodox Jews pray when it's time to pray, and it's harmless;
2) Suicide bombing is definitely NOT part of Jewish or Christian traditions and theology, and Jews and Christians DO NOT believe that a thousand beautiful virgins await them in heaven after a suicide bombing....

And I repeat, if someone is annoyed by someone's prayers, I suggest that he, and not the person praying, is in need of help...

Beech
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting Indianabridou (Reply 114):
I also was kidding when I said "I'M A NUDIST CATHOLIC AND A SWINGER"

Too late! We believed you when you first posted it.... Big grin

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 116):
And I repeat, if someone is annoyed by someone's prayers, I suggest that he, and not the person praying, is in need of help...

This episode, which seems to have evoked half a million replies, was not about some pax or FA's getting annoyed.....it was about suspicious behaviour....
 
Floris
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:47 pm

I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 118):
I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.

There's always a first time for everyone.....now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this in relation to Jews or any other community.....it's just that these misguided elements who have been resorting to suicide missions, could end up giving the wrong ideas to fanatical elements elsewhere.....

All the more reason for people to be alert and sensitive to any such potential events....
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 118):
I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.

Perhaps. Can one say for certain though? Who knows? But, there have been many non-Jews that *pose as Jews who commit suicide attacks (or homicide attacks, what have you).




One would think if someone really wanted to bomb a plane or do other harm, one thinks they would keep it quiet until the very moment of action.

If one was praying in an overt way on the ground whilst in the plane, perhaps he is just praying and not intending to do any harm.

Nowadays, it appears that more and more are erring on the side of safety (as we it should be), and the potential to offend cultures/religions are becoming very common.

The key is a fair unbiased balance.

[Edited 2006-09-07 17:13:55]
 
Lemurs
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:27 am

It is both slightly amusing and slightly disturbing how xenophobia has become acceptable again by simply rebranding it as "erring on the side of safety." That's all this is really...people who we don't understand scare us, and instead of making an effort to learn, we simply remove the presence of the person who scares us. Instead of it being recognized as simple xenophobia though, we call it National Security, and then even claim that we shouldn't have to make an effort to become better informed! My job is to keep people safe, not to get to know anything about them! Conform damn you!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
legoguy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 118):
I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.

OK fair enough, I will hold my hands up and say I have no idea what the differences between Jews ant people from other religions.

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 120):
If one was praying in an overt way on the ground whilst in the plane, perhaps he is just praying and not intending to do any harm.

Of course the guy isn't in the wrong, it can just be a little unsettling to other passengers, especially those who are not familar with Jewish traditions etc etc, cough cough me cough
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
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rikkus67
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:50 am

What happened to this man was disrespectful, but most of us still have missed one important issue...

HE COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH..... and was unaccompanied.

Also, the flight attendants over-reaction should not be discounted either, and there was no translator available!!

The definite lack of being able to communicate properly EITHER WAY by either party further exacerbated the situation.....

As I said in my previous post, it is distressing that Multi-culturalism is falling aside to "melting-pot-itis"....

Perhaps instead of beating this awful incident to death, we should suggest better solutions to the problems of travelling when associated with Multi Culturalism!

...anyone?
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Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 121):
...xenophobia has become acceptable again by simply rebranding it as "erring on the side of safety."

 bigthumbsup  I couldn't agree with you more. My comment was simply an oberservation of the present reality nowadays. Whether one likes it or not, we are all on the lookout, and our senses are overly hightened to certain acts non-western.

Xenophobia (just to reitterate to myself) is not new at all to the U.S.A. (well, technically, all cultures possess some form of xenophobia, one would deduce). Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese internment camps, just to name a few instances.

History tells us, that if one particular culture, religion or ethnic group does harm to a country, or takes away jobs or whatever else does not conform to the host society, those people, religions and cultures are discriminated upon. And there are a few enlightened people who can distinguish between the bad/good and use discretion when dealing with such sensitive issues such as the one we are discussing now.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 122):
Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 120): Of course the guy isn't in the wrong, it can just be a little unsettling to other passengers, especially those who are not familar with Jewish traditions etc etc, cough cough me cough

Well, unfortunately, he has been treated as if he were in the wrong, which we know, is not the case.
 
beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 117):
This episode, which seems to have evoked half a million replies, was not about some pax or FA's getting annoyed.....it was about suspicious behaviour....

There is nothing suspicious about an Orthodox Jew praying. People should get out more...

Beech
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 125):
There is nothing suspicious about an Orthodox Jew praying.

What really IS suspicious about ANYBODY praying ?
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 123):
The definite lack of being able to communicate properly EITHER WAY by either party further exacerbated the situation.....

Indeed. Something important to consider.

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 123):
As I said in my previous post, it is distressing that Multi-culturalism is falling aside to "melting-pot-itis"....

Yes, and it is a sad reality. One of the cures I think is re-educating and self-learning about other cultures.

Perhaps instead of beating this awful incident to death, we should suggest better solutions to the problems of travelling when associated with Multi Culturalism!

...anyone?[/quote]

Yes. Good start on the subject! One suggestion is: to educate people that not all non-western people who act weird on planes want to do harm to anyone. But of course, sometimes it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and there will be the few, who cannot distinguish, nor be tolerant of other cultures. That's life.
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 125):
There is nothing suspicious about an Orthodox Jew praying. People should get out more...

Beech

Indeed!
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Coronado990
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:11 am

Man, I can't believe this is the 21st century. I expected so much more.
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Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 126):
What really IS suspicious about ANYBODY praying ?

Yes. An even more poignant statement. What came to mind was the MS 990 incident where it is purported that prayer was used by the relief pilot to plunge the 767-300ER into the sea. Prayer was used there, but with a far more nefarious objective.

Incidents like this further reinforce ignorance and judgement on things unfamiliar.

To those who know the difference between Hassidic Jews, Muslims, or other unfamiliar religion, the very sad reality is, if he/she prays out loud in a western carrier, people will ogle and things may go downhill from there.
 
haggis79
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 113):
being in a public place requires you not to annoy other people present.

well, fortunately enough, annoying other people is not a crime yet (at least not in Germany), and hopefully will never be... what you suggest is nothing else than dictatorship of the average - "you are different, stand out or act different from others? Go home, alter or be prosecuted!"
This can't be it, can it?

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 115):
Imagine this guy had turned out to be a very nervous suicide bomber and he bought the plane down.

well imagine that caucasian, blonde girl hugging her pillow I told about earlier in this thread had turned out to be a very nervous suicide bomber and bought the plane down....? We can't treat everyone who acts a little different than average as suspicious... we are not an army, after all. Plus, I'm positivly sure, every suicide bomber would try NOT to stand out in any way for minimizing the risk to be caught? (So did the 9/11 terrorists, as far as I remember). Shall we treat everyone who DOESN'T act different and tries not to stand out as suspicious, as well?

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 117):
Quoting BeechNut (Reply 116):And I repeat, if someone is annoyed by someone's prayers, I suggest that he, and not the person praying, is in need of help...
This episode, which seems to have evoked half a million replies, was not about some pax or FA's getting annoyed.....it was about suspicious behaviour....

so praying == suspicious behaviour for you?
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 130):
prayer was used by the relief pilot to plunge the 767-300ER into the sea.

ok, the man DID pray, but he did NOT "use" prayer to plunge the plane

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 130):
he/she prays out loud in a western carrier, people will ogle

people praying loud in airplanes are a bit strange in my view, but perfectly acceptable
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 132):
Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 130):
prayer was used by the relief pilot to plunge the 767-300ER into the sea.

ok, the man DID pray, but he did NOT "use" prayer to plunge the plane

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 130):
he/she prays out loud in a western carrier, people will ogle

people praying loud in airplanes are a bit strange in my view, but perfectly acceptable

Semantics, I am afraid. I guess one can't really use prayer. The scope of my example was to illustrate that someone can pray to do nefarious things. And alas, he invoked prayer to plunge a plane into the sea.

I didn't say loud, I said out loud.   I should have written it "outloud". One need not be loud to be speaking outloud.

[Edit: I am with you that praying outloud is acceptable.  Smile]

[Edited 2006-09-07 19:28:08]
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 118):
I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.

not yet, not yet. Until 11Sep01, you have never seen a Lebanese or an Egyptian doing this.
 
multimark
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:03 am

People seem to be ignoring this part of the article:

"...According to CBC, Air Canada Jazz, termed the situation "delicate," and said it received more than one complaint about the man's behavior and that the crew had to act in the interest of the majority of passengers..."

So other pax had complained. And again, I point out a CRJ is a pretty cramped a/c. The other pax are very close to someone lurching and muttering, we're not talking about a widebody here! Furthermore, there is just one FA onboard to deal with "special situations". Err on the side of caution. To those here bemoaning and blaming seculariization: it has nothing to do with it! Disruptive behaviour is disruptive behaviour!
 
legoguy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 131):
well imagine that caucasian, blonde girl hugging her pillow I told about earlier in this thread had turned out to be a very nervous suicide bomber and bought the plane down....? We can't treat everyone who acts a little different than average as suspicious... we are not an army, after all. Plus, I'm positivly sure, every suicide bomber would try NOT to stand out in any way for minimizing the risk to be caught? (So did the 9/11 terrorists, as far as I remember). Shall we treat everyone who DOESN'T act different and tries not to stand out as suspicious, as well?

Yea ok that was a bad example and I'm sorry for bringing it up as it seems to have sparked off a little war. And yes, the suicide bomber would try to not stand out in the crowd...but it could have been posible that the guy was a suicide bomber who was unable to control himself as he knew what he was doing wrong etc etc. But I stand corrected.

The person should have been left alone to pray. But not everybody in the world will know about jewish culture etc etc and I am certainly guilty of being one of those people.

I guess if I was more aware, I would not get a little scared if I heard some guy praying whilst rocking backwards and forwards with a sheet over his head. But when I first read about the thread, I thought it sounded abit like a crazy person (except replacing the prayers with jibberish).
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 136):
I guess if I was more aware, I would not get a little scared if I heard some guy praying whilst rocking backwards and forwards with a sheet over his head. But when I first read about the thread, I thought it sounded abit like a crazy person (except replacing the prayers with jibberish).

It goes both ways, I guess he was not aware of it that he caused such a fuzz to other passengers....... I mean try to see it from both ways............

Cheers,
 
legoguy
Posts: 2981
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 137):
It goes both ways, I guess he was not aware of it that he caused such a fuzz to other passengers....... I mean try to see it from both ways............

Thats true, although very hard as he did not speak English
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
Lostmoon744
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:29 am

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 138):
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamcian saying 'Bacon'?

I love this!  Smile
 
legoguy
Posts: 2981
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 139):
I love this!

Hahahaha it's quite catchy! Everytime my mom asks 'What do you want for breakfast', the reply is usually 'Beer can, Beer can, Beer can, Beer can!'
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
A5XX
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:36 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:24 am

Live and let live....  Smile

Post 9/11, we all must acknowledge this fact: the world, as it has been, is over.  Sad

Things will never be the same again.  Sad

3600 times an hour, we are reminded about: "The war on terror", or "Terror alert level", or "Be suspicious" or "report any abnornal behavior, or "anything you think is abnormal"  Sad

Live and let live.... is a thing of the past. It ceased to exist, the moment your favorite airliner, became a weapon.  Sad

A5XX
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 84):
From what I hear saudis will do the exqct opposite, that is do their possible to sit near girls, touch the FA hands when served the meals... etc



Quoting Rolfen (Reply 84):
From what I hear saudis will do the exqct opposite, that is do their possible to sit near girls, touch the FA hands when served the meals... etc



Quoting JHTango (Reply 87):
The problem here is very simple. Most people are just intolerant or worst, IGNORANT.
Reading from a sacred book could get you into trouble in a plane in the Western World, unless it's the Bible!!!



Quoting JHTango (Reply 87):
IMHO I think that the demon here is IGNORANCE.



Quoting YEGer (Reply 89):
Simply put and agreed. I have nothing against religion and other peoples views, but when it comes to flying, anything out of the ordinary is unacceptable. I wish this was not the case, but after living through 9/11 and recent events, I hate to say it is.



Quoting Floris (Reply 118):
have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.



Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 124):
I couldn't agree with you more. My comment was simply an oberservation of the present reality nowadays. Whether one likes it or not, we are all on the lookout, and our senses are overly hightened to certain acts non-western.



Quoting A5XX (Reply 141):
Post 9/11, we all must acknowledge this fact: the world, as it has been, is over.

Things will never be the same again.

I believe the problem is this: The terrorists may have won. They may have reached their objective. Their objective was not to bring the towers down on 9/11, the Madrid attacks, the recent liquids plot, and some other atrocities. Those were the means to an end. Their real objective was to generate fear, xenophobia, misunderstanding, undemocratic actions, anti-semitic views, extreme secularism, division among the Western world, anti-religious actions and behaviours, discrimination, etc. Divide and Conquer.

They wanted to split our Western society in different camps that discuss or even engage in the above attitudes.

So, now, we have TSA agents asking 80 year old ladies to remove their shoes, we have to pack our carry on's with a checklist, we have to be discreet, almost to the point of hiding our different religious views, we are suspicious of "muslims", the Patriot Act, we allow abuses by authorities to "different" people, we have to be careful about the books we buy, borrow or read, the web pages we visit, ridiculously discreet when in public, "weird" people being thrown out of restaurants, airplanes, hotels, theaters etc. and many more consequences.

And all that is our fault, because we as a society are allowing the terrorists' objectives to be fulfilled. It's not a question about going lax on security like before 9/11, no, but us rejecting attitudes from centuries ago that we are regressing to.

The problem of this Orthodox Jew or whatever is the latest consequence of what I've mentioned. Let's not allow the terrorists to win.
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting A5XX (Reply 141):
Live and let live.... is a thing of the past. It ceased to exist, the moment your favorite airliner, became a weapon.

Your conclusion only proves that the real victors are the propagandists of our own so-called free and democratic nations. A population in fear brings glee to the political manipulators and deceivers that we so naively elect.
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2629
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 131):
so praying == suspicious behaviour for you?

You are misquoting me....I have all along been saying in this thread that there is nothing suspicious about praying as long as it is done in a manner that does not attract undue attention....please address the correct person!!

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