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CHRISBA777ER
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How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:58 pm

I know most airlines on a good day will use de-rated (FLEX) thrust for takeoff, unless its dodgy weather (windshear etc).

I'm just curious as to what the criteria for a full power departure is, and if there are particular airports where it is used more often.

Without actually being on the flight deck, its impossible to judge but i *think* i've experienced one full power departure that I was really aware that thats what it was. Everything i've ever flown out of LHR on has felt much of a muchness, same with LGW, save for one IAE-V2500-powered MYT A320 departure LGW-IBZ this time last year.

Been on 40+ A320/19s in my life and this was much faster and impressive takeoff than I'd ever experienced on the type before. Felt like a 757 - really hard kick in the seat and quite violent accelleration. I guessed at the time we had inbound traffic on finals and we told to shift smartish.

Anyone else experienced a firewalled TOGA-power takeoff? I dont think they are very common these days - i can only recall one that I can say I am sure it was.

I want to get on a 777 with a 100% TOGA-power takeoff - where is the best place for that then?

[Edited 2006-10-02 16:23:42]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
avi
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RE: How Common Are Toga Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:07 pm

I don't know too many aircrafts but on the B747-400 TOGA is not 100% available power (and I don't believe that in other aircrafts this is the situation).

The pilots before takeoff select the power they need for takeoff (full power or de-rated power) and when they press TOGA on takeoff roll, the auto throttle system sets the selected power.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: How Common Are Toga Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
want to get on a 777 with a TOGA takeoff - where is the best place for that then?

I can think of two reasons for TOGA take off from a normal airfield.
A thrust reverser inop usually leads to TOGA take off.
and much more common, Deicing. If airframe deicing has been carried out it will normally lead to a max power take off.

So try the first flight of the day out of a Northern airport in the winter.(First flight because in the winter the overnighters are nearly alway deiced from overnight frost, when the turnround aircraft may not be.)
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Toga Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Avi (Reply 1):
I don't know too many aircrafts but on the B747-400 TOGA is not 100% available power (and I don't believe that in other aircrafts this is the situation).

The pilots before takeoff select the power they need for takeoff (full power or de-rated power) and when they press TOGA on takeoff roll, the auto throttle system sets the selected power.

I should say "full power" takeoff - sorry. Thanks for the info.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
jacobin777
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:26 pm

SNA sees its share of "full power takeoffs", especially in the evenings..in fact, when I've flown AS SNA-OAK a few times, the pilots have specifically said "be prepared for some extra "oomph" or "full power" as we have to use some extra thrust to get the plane up as fast as possible due to neighbor noise regulations"...in other words.
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NZ8800
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:45 pm

Doesn't JNB require full power take-offs (or as near to full power as practical) due to being a hot-and-high airport?
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futurecaptain
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I'm just curious as to what the criteria for a full power departure is

No PAX on board.  Smile.

But seriously, probably a winter RON a/c or an airport with a short runway are your best options.
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akjetBlue
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:55 pm

hmmm... I remember years back at CHO (6001 ft runway) seeing Piedmont/US 727s taxi down to runway 3, set the parking brake, rev the engines up to full power, sit for 30 seconds and then LAUNCH down the runway.

I can only imagine what the takeoff roll must have felt like.
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jush
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:55 pm

I had one in DUS in 1996 though I don't know why the pilots did it. We had an MD-80 IIRC and the pilots held the brakes to rev up and then off we went.
Impressive to say at least.

Regds
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zeke
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I'm just curious as to what the criteria for a full power departure is, and if there are particular airports where it is used more often.

Lots of factors, from obstacle near an airport, environmental (temperature, ice, contaminated runway), to maintenance items.

On long haul flights, if one is really pushed for fuel, TOGA and a max power climb will reduce the total trip fuel required.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
as we have to use some extra thrust to get the plane up as fast as possible due to neighbor noise regulations"...in other words.

With noise abatement departures such as the NADP1 or NAPD2 what changes is height of where thrust reduction is made, and when acceleration is done. For close in noise abatement thrust is reduced early, speed is kept back for a closer to max angle climb with flap at takeoff, then at 3000' agl acceleration occurs. TOGA does not help this.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I'm just curious as to what the criteria for a full power departure is, and if there are particular airports where it is used more often.

At SXM you pretty well assume that it is a rule of thumb for all heavies.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
SNA sees its share of "full power takeoffs", especially in the evenings..in fact, when I've flown AS SNA-OAK a few times, the pilots have specifically said "be prepared for some extra "oomph" or "full power" as we have to use some extra thrust to get the plane up as fast as possible due to neighbor noise regulations"...in other words.

The Orange County NIMBY's make SNA one of the hardest airports for departures in the USA.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 5):
Doesn't JNB require full power take-offs (or as near to full power as practical) due to being a hot-and-high airport?

SLC does for wide-bodies when it gets so hot in July especially you will see DL 764s and 763s wind up to full power before they roll.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 7):
rev the engines up to full power, sit for 30 seconds and then LAUNCH down the runway.

I can only imagine what the takeoff roll must have felt like

30 Seconds? Thats a helluva strain on the brakes.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:12 am

Am I the only one who would LOVE to have a full power 757-200 departure?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
steady eddie
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:16 am

funny you should say that, at the moment there is an Emegerncy AD out regarding GE90 777 rollbacks, the result of this is 100% TOGA thrust departures. Theres a thread running on PPRuNe at the moment and a 777 driver describes a full chat take off at 330 tonnes MTOW as a sporty experience.... get yourself a ride soon!
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Steady Eddie (Reply 13):
GE90 777 rollbacks,

A what?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Steady Eddie (Reply 13):
get yourself a ride soon!

Am going on three 777-300ERs and a A340-500 in three weeks time? Any chance they will be still doing full power departures then I wonder??

*crosses fingers*
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting Jush (Reply 8):
had one in DUS in 1996 though I don't know why the pilots did it. We had an MD-80 IIRC and the pilots held the brakes to rev up and then off we went.

In the winter in icing conditions it is a common sight to see MD80 sitting on the brakes with the engines at high power. It is all to do with ice build up on the blades and the SAS accident at ARN many years ago.
 
avconsultant
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:28 am

The AZ flight from FLR - ROM is a very interesting takeoff on A319. In fact, on my MXP-FLR flight had to hold until there were parking spaces.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
Am going on three 777-300ERs

right now i would say yes as the AD applies to the 773ER and the 772LR aircraft
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futurecaptain
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 12):
Am I the only one who would LOVE to have a full power 757-200 departure?

Heard a story once. As it goes a 752 was doing a positioning flight and another company pilot was jumpseating. The a/c was cleared to FL400 from departure and most of the way up the jumpseating pilot looks at the VSI and remarks how amazing it is at full power the a/c was stil climbing at several thousand FPM even up that high. The captain looked back and said "full power? I've already throttled back..."
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
Am going on three 777-300ERs

right now i would say yes as the AD applies to the 773ER and the 772LR aircraft

Yeah baby!!! Big grin Get in there!!!!

Wonder whats going to be the more impressive takeoff -

A345 de-limited out of LHR bound for AUH.

or

77W full power out of AUH bound for BKK.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Charliejag1
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:42 am

There are 12 criteria that require an airline crew to perform a full thrust takeoff (per FARs). I cannot remember all of them, its been too long. As stated above, there are some that relate to meteorological conditions, some to pilots, and some to the aircraft and airport. When the Comair crash happened, I wondered if they would have made it if it had been a full thrust t/o. For instance, one of the 12 criteria is a MEL'd EPR gauge. What if the Comair flight had an inop EPR indication? In a weird way, they might have made it out if the plane had a broken part . . .

I'm pretty sure one of the criteria has to do with wind shear, one with T/R inop, but I can't find the right FAR right now.
 
ba757
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:04 am

Yes I have, and fairly often out of FLR. Avro's and A319's with full power applied on the brakes for about 20-30 seconds. It certainly launches you forward.

I believe I had a full power takeoff out of MXP on a AZ A319 too, once again on the brakes for around 20 seconds then we catapulted away. (Could this have been something to do with the stormy weather and very low visibility?)

Adam
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:08 am

We used to see them during weather at our airport. Although the only aircraft we get are RJ's you can usually tell when watching them from the ramp, and I've been on a few myself. Apparently when you really hammer it, even the CRJ has a fair amount of power.

On a small field like ours you can usually hear the engines winding up at the end of the runway, so we can usually tell when its happening.

[Edited 2006-10-02 18:10:06]
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emseeeye
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:25 am

Every time I have departed SGU on a turboprop I have had a full power takeoff.
 
avconsultant
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting BA757 (Reply 22):
Yes I have, and fairly often out of FLR. Avro's and A319's with full power applied on the brakes for about 20-30 seconds. It certainly launches you forward.

When we flew into FLR they made the announcement in Italian which I did not speak. When we landed, I thought "damn" and when he turned around to back taxi to the gate on noticing the lack of runway I figured the explaination. I hung around to watch the departure. Impressive!! If there is a V1 cut or a blown tire, no choice but to press on.

Quoting BA757 (Reply 22):
I believe I had a full power takeoff out of MXP on a AZ A319 too

MXP, really? That's a long runway. Do some maintenance plans require a max performance t/o so often?
 
speedmarque
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 12):
Am I the only one who would LOVE to have a full power 757-200 departure?

Did one of these just two weeks ago on G-BPED with a half load of pax too. Captain told us before pax boarded that due to a fault we had to do max power take off. FUN! Taking off from LHR on 09R we were airborne by the time we passed T5B building!! That is quick trust me!

Big smiles all day after that.
 
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Stitch
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Anyone else experienced a firewalled TOGA-power takeoff?

Earlier this year on a UA 757 SEA-SFO. We were about 35% load and UA875, the SEA-NRT 777, was right behind us so we were ordered to "expedite departure and climb-out". Big grin

We were at max throttle for take-off and a good chunk of the climb-out to around 10,000ft or so - and UA875 still passed us (I watched her rumble on by).  Wow!

But man, what a ride!
 
avconsultant
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
We were at max throttle for take-off and a good chunk of the climb-out to around 10,000ft or so - and UA875 still passed us (I watched her rumble on by).

Does the 777 just fill up the sky that it looks like it's putting along? I did not realize the 777 could out perform a 757. That's impressive and ensightful on its size.
 
ba757
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 25):
When we flew into FLR they made the announcement in Italian which I did not speak. When we landed, I thought "damn" and when he turned around to back taxi to the gate on noticing the lack of runway I figured the explaination. I hung around to watch the departure. Impressive!! If there is a V1 cut or a blown tire, no choice but to press on.

Indeed - a great little airport for fun takeoffs and landings.
The weather can play havoc with it though, it doesn't take much rain to close the place.

It still amazes me to this day how AZ and IG get full A319's out of the place, even more amazing to me is how IG can send a A319 on FLR-LGW. Does anyone know if that's load restricted? Surely they cannot fill that aircraft considering it will be carrying a fair amount of fuel (Unlike the FCO/MXP runs that are fairly short).

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 25):
MXP, really?

Yes really. It was around September last year. The weather was appalling with extremely low visibility.

The weather was causing severe delays.

Adam
 
IFEMaster
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
SNA sees its share of "full power takeoffs", especially in the evenings..in fact, when I've flown AS SNA-OAK a few times, the pilots have specifically said "be prepared for some extra "oomph" or "full power" as we have to use some extra thrust to get the plane up as fast as possible due to neighbor noise regulations"...in other words.

And what a climb it is out of SNA. The early-morning departures are generally my favourite, especially those right at 7am, because there is always a line of aircraft ready to go before they "open" for business. In fact, I'm flying AS SNA - PDX next week on the 07:45 departure. Always fun.
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Stitch
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 28):
Does the 777 just fill up the sky that it looks like it's putting along? I did not realize the 777 could out perform a 757. That's impressive and ensightful on its size.

Yeah I was shocked too, but Seattle Departure was letting us know she was coming up (three cheers for Channel 9) and I was fortunate enough to be in the window on the proper side so I kept an eye out for her and caught her as she went by.
 
legacy135
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:14 am

On the Legacy we have three modes:

ALT-T/O which is roughly 90% of power
T/O which is 100% of power and
E-T/O which is roughly 108 % of power

The contract with Rolls-Royce we have, says that 90% of all Take Off's need to be done in ALT-T/O mode, otherwise the hourly rate for maintenance savings will rise. However, once a week an E-T/O Take Off needs to be done, just in order to make sure, the engines do produce the power.

Going at low weight in E-T/O mode is pretty nice. It is common then to pass FL100 on the downwind leg on climb out. The best I did was 2 minutes to FL90, this is fun.

Cheers
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Ryanair737
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:46 am

You should think of it more as going "rated thrust" rather than "full thrust".

They are obliged to use rated thrust in the following circumstances:

- Runway is contaminated or slippery
- Marked temperature inversion or windshear
- Either thrust reverser is inop
- Once a week to confirm that rated thrust is achievable
- If the Captain/crew believes rated would be best, for example turbulence expected in the take-off flight path
- Any power setting instrument is inop
- An RTOW table is not available
- The aircraft performance calculation requires that they use it (clearing a climb constraint on the SID etc)

These are just a few possible requirements of using rated thrust.

In all other instances (including departures when there is low vis) they use an 'Assumed Temperature Thrust Reduction' technique, which applies to most takeoffs around the world.

Hope that cleared a few things up for you, CHRISBA777ER!  bigthumbsup 

Ryanair737
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jacobin777
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 9):
With noise abatement departures such as the NADP1 or NAPD2 what changes is height of where thrust reduction is made, and when acceleration is done. For close in noise abatement thrust is reduced early, speed is kept back for a closer to max angle climb with flap at takeoff, then at 3000' agl acceleration occurs. TOGA does not help this.

Thank you very much for a thorough explantion... checkmark 

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):

The Orange County NIMBY's make SNA one of the hardest airports for departures in the USA.

Californian NIMBY's.. mad ..but it certainly makes for some fun departures.. biggrin 

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 30):
And what a climb it is out of SNA. The early-morning departures are generally my favourite, especially those right at 7am, because there is always a line of aircraft ready to go before they "open" for business. In fact, I'm flying AS SNA - PDX next week on the 07:45 departure. Always fun.

Early morning and evening departures are the best..I'm flying SNA-SJC in a few weeks, can't wait.. yes 
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uadc8contrail
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 12):
Am I the only one who would LOVE to have a full power 757-200 departure?

CHRIS,
flying out of ege in the winter time will normally get you a full power take off if you take off to the west.have flown ua&aa and 4x that i could tell we were launching pretty fast and that was after a good 10-15 second brakes set at position and hold.
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Charliejag1
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:12 am

Unless you are in the cockpit or the captain tells you, I don't think many if any of you can tell if it a reduced thrust takeoff or not. The only way you could really tell from the back was if you regularly fly (in the pointy end) that type and your body can tell the difference. Either way, I enjoy the push on takeoff just as much as the next pilot or passenger. My favorite was the Citation X. On that thing, even a reduced t/o feels like a 752 full thrust or better.
 
airfrnt
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 12):
Am I the only one who would LOVE to have a full power 757-200 departure?

Try the 752 from DEN to Eagle County (better known as Vail). I got pasted to the back of my seat on that one.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 7):
hmmm... I remember years back at CHO (6001 ft runway) seeing Piedmont/US 727s taxi down to runway 3, set the parking brake, rev the engines up to full power, sit for 30 seconds and then LAUNCH down the runway.

I can only imagine what the takeoff roll must have felt like.

They do that at PLH (Plymouth, UK) With a runway of just 1,200 meters or so you sit at the end as full power is applied, the whole cabin shaking from side to side and rattling. Then when they release the brakes it feels like your being shot from a catapult. With a light load expect to be in the air within 10/11 seconds, and a high load about 15 seconds maximum!! bigthumbsup 

Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 26):
Did one of these just two weeks ago on G-BPED with a half load of pax too. Captain told us before pax boarded that due to a fault we had to do max power take off. FUN! Taking off from LHR on 09R we were airborne by the time we passed T5B building!! That is quick trust me!

I flew on the KLM 763 from LHR-AMS, very powerful takeoff on 27L, pinned back into my seat and we rotated when still adjacent to the end of T4, then entered a very steep climb. I was very impressed by that, wasn't a light load pax and cargo wise either!

Dan Smile
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gmcc
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
right at 7am, because there is always a line of aircraft ready to go before they "open" for business. In fact, I'm flying SA)">AS SNA - PDX next week on the 07:45 departure. Always fun.

Early morning and evening departures are the best..I'm flying SNA-SJC in a few weeks, can't wait..

14 gate push back at 6:40 am and all 14 jet waiting till 7 am to take off. It's the only time SNA looks like JFK or LGA. Imitation is the sincerest form of flatter. Smile It is quite amazing to see the planes take off at what looks like a 45 degree angle and then all of a sudden hang in the air at about 1000 feet.

Had a full power take off on SA 747SP in the Canray Islands in the late 70's or early 80's. We sat on the end of the runway with the brakes on, the engines spolled up compressing the nose gear and then off we went. It was an amazing take off
 
Matt72033
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RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:59 am

my inbound plane today had a problem which in short was causing some wrong takeoff figures to be sent to the autothrottle on take off which automatically sent the aircraft into TOGA mode, im guessing that woulda been a pretty swift take off! i dont the ins n outs of that one, i only heard half the conversation, and most of the airbus abbreviations went straight over my head! lol

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 5):
Doesn't JNB require full power take-offs (or as near to full power as practical) due to being a hot-and-high airport?

often when one of our 340-600's lands at JNB we have to pull the QAR disk due to wheels being oversped due to the hot and high conditions

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
30 Seconds? Thats a helluva strain on the brakes.

ive sat on a high power engine run on 2 engines on a 744 for about 20 secs at a time for a total of about 7-8 runs other 2 engines where at idle, it wasnt as dramatic as i had imagined but theres still quite a bitta shakin about going on

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 20):
A345 de-limited out of LHR bound for AUH.

wud that be Etihad? or Emirates?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I want to get on a 777 with a 100% TOGA-power takeoff - where is the best place for that then?

i flew on a BA 777 out of gatwick and they spooled up the engines and then to take off power for a few seconds before releasing the brakes, according to a friend f my mums whose a 777 pilot for BA it was probably because we were on the shorter runway there!

that was quite cool
 
CargairMax50
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:43 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:12 am

My cousin works for a maintenance company in Trois-Rivières (CYRQ) 6000 ft. runway. He says that a 727-200 taking off at full power is incredibly imkpressive and loud!!
 
warreng24
Posts: 575
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:38 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:05 am

According of the FAA directive in this post:
FAA Directive Issued Over GE90 Thrust Rollback (by GF-A330 Oct 2 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Full power departures will now be standard on all GE90 powered 777's.

Awesome.
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 7):
rev the engines up to full power, sit for 30 seconds and then LAUNCH down the runway.

I can only imagine what the takeoff roll must have felt like

30 Seconds? Thats a helluva strain on the brakes.

Actually, there is no strain on the brakes, all of the strain is between the tire and runway. To help visualize this, imagine if the jet was on ice, with its brakes on. You can easily imagine that the plane will move forward even with the brakes applied -- so the strain is between the tires and the runway -- their are no circular forces on the wheel that the brakes need to overcome.

On the other hand if a car is on the ice, the engine of a car will try to turn the wheels, but if the wheels cannot turn the car will stay put. Unless of course a jet engined is strapped to the roof of a car, in which case the car would move forward on the ice even with the brakes applied.
 
Ward86IND
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:13 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:42 am

Over the summer I was on a NW 753 that I think flew a full power departure (wet runway) from runway 17 at MSP. The flight was to IND so the fuel load was light. Let me tell you, the -200 isn't the only one that can climb like a bat out of hell.

[Edited 2006-10-02 23:43:43]
Live your dream.
 
mickeyc
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:39 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:43 am

I experienced what I presume was a full power departure flying out of the city of derry airport in northern ireland on a blueline md82,it was absolutely awesome we were in the air in no time.Not sure if this is standard procedure for this airport but I know the runway is very short as the Ryanair 738's that fly in and out of there are limited to 140 passengers.
 
NW747-400
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 4:42 am

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:49 am

From my airline's flight operations manual:

REDUCED THRUST
The reduced engine thrust take-off procedure must NOT be used:
*On the first flight of the day for the aircraft.
*If the normal take-off fan speed is less than 85% N1.
*If the wing and/or cowl anti-icing bleeds are in use.
*On runways contaminated with standing water, slush, snow, or ice.
*When warnings of windshear or downdrafts have been forecast.

In addition to the above limitations, the aircraft may require a full thrust take-off due to weight, obstacle clearance, short runways, or any other time aircraft performance necessitates a full thrust take-off. Maintenance can also ask pilots to execute full thrust take-offs.

As a side note, many aircraft are required to execute a static take-off on contaminated runways. In this scenario, the thrust will be increased to about 70% prior to brake release.
 
Qantas767
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2000 8:32 pm

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 43):
Actually, there is no strain on the brakes, all of the strain is between the tire and runway. To help visualize this, imagine if the jet was on ice, with its brakes on. You can easily imagine that the plane will move forward even with the brakes applied -- so the strain is between the tires and the runway -- their are no circular forces on the wheel that the brakes need to overcome.

On the other hand if a car is on the ice, the engine of a car will try to turn the wheels, but if the wheels cannot turn the car will stay put. Unless of course a jet engined is strapped to the roof of a car, in which case the car would move forward on the ice even with the brakes applied.

Good analogy.
IF IT DON'T HOVER - DON'T BOTHER
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 42):
Full power departures will now be standard on all GE90 powered 777's.

no not all, only those with the -110 and 115 motors
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
strudders
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:39 pm

RE: How Common Are Full Power Departures?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:47 am

A few years ago My wife and I flew to RIAT Fairford with BA on a chartered 747. On the return leg the captain (one of three on board!) explained that as we were taking off with the wind we would be required to complete a full power take off.

He explained that we would get "quite a kick" into our seats for the people in cattle, and for the fortunate sitting the other way in Club, they would quite possibly be flung out!!!

We shot down the Runway and were airborne in less than a third of the distance seemingly heading straights up!

Fantastic.

On the other hand flew out of Delhi on a very hot and sticky night a couple of years ago and thought we would never get of the ground even though again it was full power!.

Regards

Struds

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