a380us
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
EK does cater kosher food if it is ordered in advance.

Is this an official policy, or is it just kind of known?

its sort of just known i know people who have done it before
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gamarocchi
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
For the record, I am a religious/orthodox Jew. People who keep kosher are not allowed to eat Halal because the Halal was not supervised by a Jew whereas Kosher food must be supervised by a Jew throughout the preperation process. Also, there are different restrictions on what type of animals Jews are allowed to eat.
Secondly, I am somewhat shocked by the anti-religious animosity displayed on this forum. I am not quite sure how my personal religious eating habits are inconveniencing other people. Also, the hostility with which these opinions have been expressed bothers me. Someone, please clarify what is so bothersome about me ordering a Kosher meal when I fly? Also, it might be in the airline's interest to serve Kosher meals. I fly 70,000 miles a year on United and I fly Business class internationally.If they stopped serving Kosher meals on their international flights I would be forced to fly a different airline.

Well, I personally think having different kinds of religious eating habits are not offending or in any way inconveniencing other people. And as you point out offering them goes towards a need by the airlines to compete for all kinds of passengers.

And about your shock, well... I am a religious person (Buddhist) and while I don't follow any particular rule about eating habits as I am just a lay person, I understand what you mean as I was kind of troubled too by reading some posts. On the other hand, I do understand how some people can feel threatened by a general sense of religious awakening we are feeling all over the world (post 9-11, I feel) - even if I can't speak about any change inside the Jewish world which I don't know so well.

The point is that in all religions, some people have tolerance, others use their religious feeling to separate themselves from other human beings and, in a way, they view the rest of people as "inferior" to them (and value the lives of "the infidel" less than the lives of the "brother"). This is what scares a lot of people, and indeed, when I am confronted with some views, I feel quite bothered too.

I am Italian and my wife is Japanese, and I have had the chance of going to Japan quite often in the last 5 years. While the religiosity of the Japanese people is difficult to understand and fathom for most foreigners (especially those who don't understand the language) I have noticed a slow change - more people are becoming more religious, even in there. Some things that come with that, being religious myself, I appreciate. On the other hand, when I spoke with a friend about the (then) recent earthquake in Pakistan that had caused thousands of deaths, and she shrugged the tragedy off by saying that "After all, that's the same kind of people who tore down the Buddhas in Afghanistan", well, this kind of view does scare me about the future of the world. And when you see some animosity towards religiosity, reflect on how aggressive expressions of religiously intolerant views are becoming more visible and worrying in our world, and maybe you will make a sense of the animosity too.
 
cefarix
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:47 am

I am a practicing and devout Muslim. Here's what I can't eat/drink: Alcohol and pork, or any meat if it's not slaughtered by letting the blood drain out before the body dies. Here in the US, I can eat any meat as long as it's not pork because according to the law, the blood must be drained before the body of the animal dies. This is generally done by electrically stunning the animal then cutting the jugular vein or such. When flying out of Europe on European or American airlines, I don't eat the meat served on those flights because the slaughter laws in Europe are different. Draining the blood is not mandatory, AFAIK.

Kosher meals are considered halal for the same reasons as listed above. As far as I am concerned, there is no difference beteen Kosher or Halal.

Also, being Halal is not special - it just means it does not have alcohol, pork, and any meat came from an animal that was slaughtered by cutting the neck. The exception to the let-the-blood-drain rule are animals that were hunted.

The opposite of Halal is Haram. It consists of: intoxicating substances, pork, any animal that eats meat.

Anything from the ocean is considered Halal by default, irrespective of how it was slaughtered/killed/etc, who did it, or how it was cooked.

Someone above mentioned that "airlines do not owe them Halal etc meals". If airlines operating in or out of Muslim majority countries, like the Middle East, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc did not serve Halal food, nobody would fly them, and the respective governments would probably ban them.

It was also mentioned above that Kosher meals are not Halal for Muslims because Islam commands Muslims to speak the name of Allah before a slaughtering an animal. That is not true, because the requirement is only for Muslims slaughtering animals. If a non-Muslim slaughters an animal, it is not required for them to speak the name of Allah (obviously).

Although Kosher meals are considered Halal by Muslims, I do not know if the opposite is true. Perhaps a Jew can enlighten us on this?
 
FLYACYYZ
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AC-Ireland//Bye Bye Shannon

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Cefarix (Reply 52):
Although Kosher meals are considered Halal by Muslims, I do not know if the opposite is true. Perhaps a Jew can enlighten us on this?

Halal is not considered kosher for the reason mentioned above -- the food and facilities of preparation are to be under strict rabbinical supervision. Doesn't nececessarily mean that there is a Rabbi constantly on site, just means that certain guidelines of food preparation and observance have been approved.

Checking www.emirates.com, KSML's are clearly not listed as one of their special meal offerings. It must be the "don't ask, don't tell" option.

[Edited 2007-06-02 02:02:09]
Above and Beyond
 
rjpieces
Topic Author
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 42):
The airlines either sends one extra meal down on jan 1 and it stays frozen in the caterers freezer in AUA or they send one meal down frozen on the outbound on jan 5 to be served on your return.

But surely that must be expensive and a pain in the ass with logistics...Two things that airlines try to simplify...With pretty much any route out of NYC, especially one like AUA, you would think there would be regular demand for kosher meals on flights. So does that mean they are pretty much constantly flying in special meal requests for outbound flights?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 44):
If it isn't, they COULD have a Kosher kitchen in DXB...

Well that was what I was hoping to ascertain, but nobody has answered for sure yet. It seems apparent from everyone's responses that EK does serve kosher food, even on flights out of DXB. So do they cater it locally (in DXB) ot fly it in from other cities? Anyone know for sure?

Quoting Kdeg00 (Reply 46):
There are significant present and historic jewish populations in a number of less obvious countries in the Middle-East and Africa

Yes, but there isn't much of a Jewish community left anywhere except Morocco and Iran. There is surely not one in most of the places EK flies to...

Quoting Kdeg00 (Reply 46):
It would not suprise me at all that EK had kosher catering available in DXB.

Perhaps, but not for the reasons you cite. The Jewish population that EK is serving would mostly be American, European, or Austalian...Not the few Jews of the Arab/Muslim Middle East.

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
Also, it might be in the airline's interest to serve Kosher meals. I fly 70,000 miles a year on United and I fly Business class internationally.If they stopped serving Kosher meals on their international flights I would be forced to fly a different airline.

Exactly...Look at Continental, for example. If they stopped offering Glatt Kosher meals on EWR-TLV, they would lose a huge chunk of their business. Airlines cater to their customers needs...It's the same reason that jetBlue offers kosher-for-passover snacks on JFK-FLL during Passover.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
B6MoneyGuyJFK
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
For the record, I am a religious/orthodox Jew. People who keep kosher are not allowed to eat Halal because the Halal was not supervised by a Jew whereas Kosher food must be supervised by a Jew throughout the preperation process. Also, there are different restrictions on what type of animals Jews are allowed to eat.
Secondly, I am somewhat shocked by the anti-religious animosity displayed on this forum. I am not quite sure how my personal religious eating habits are inconveniencing other people. Also, the hostility with which these opinions have been expressed bothers me. Someone, please clarify what is so bothersome about me ordering a Kosher meal when I fly? Also, it might be in the airline's interest to serve Kosher meals. I fly 70,000 miles a year on United and I fly Business class internationally.If they stopped serving Kosher meals on their international flights I would be forced to fly a different airline.

I understand exactly what you mean. The more I read down the more hostility I felt, but I really have to respond to the coment below

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):
Would they be considered lesser Jews because they had just Kosher and not Glatt-Kosher meal by the lord ????
I call this religious brainwash

This has nothing to do with being a lesser anything, and has everything to do with the way you are raised, and the traditions that you follow. There are some Jews who are non observant and eat pork..and at the other end of the spectrum there are Jews who only eat Glatt Kosher.

Religious Brainwash??? Talk about suicide bombers who blow themselves up and take innocents with them, or talk about the 9/11 Hijackers (lets at least try to throw a little Aviation back in this thread) who took thousands with them. Still want to talk about religious brainwashing?
Opinions are like @ssholes. Everyone has one, and everyone thinks everyone elses stinks!
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:28 am

So getting back to the original post....."Emirates and Kosher Food--Issue Resolved"??

Apparently Not.

 boggled 
Above and Beyond
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:31 am

you guys are still going at it, amazing
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 32):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
...sure, I guess very well educated, practical and religious people like me are so 'stuck in the "Dark Ages"'...

Did I specifically mentioned you? I specifically said that it doesn't apply to the majority of people

You mentioned a plethora of religions...which included mine.so yes......you did indirectly mention you....

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 32):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
..so who's "jamming" religion down the throats of people? last I recalled, you had a right to choose what carrier to fly...

That hit a nerve, didn't it. Have you ever heard of secularism?

...I don't let A.netters bother me... Wink

...and what about "secularism"? this entire thread is based on the concept of various religions....

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 32):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
...who's giving "special preferences"? I pay for services and will give my business to carriers which cater to my needs...

The last time I checked you pay just as much as the next guy that requires no special meal. As far as I know, you're more costly to the airline since you require more special services.

 talktothehand ...the last time I checked, I've been a higher-tiered FF member on a particular airline close to 1/2 decade...which means I give them a lot of my personal business and money....

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 32):

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
was thinking the same thing about your asinine comments......

That was uncalled for. I did not attack you personally, but I guess when the religion blurs the presence of the common sence, comments like yours magically appear.

.....it was called for, you repeatedly make comments about people's religion and then state "what did I say wrong?".....

this whole thread has to do with religion and religious rights on a particular carrier........
"Up the Irons!"
 
nycaross
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:19 am

I am an Anglican and observe not eating meat on Ash Wednesday and the Fridays in Lent. This year, during Lent, I was invited into someone's home for dinner on a Friday in Lent. They made steaks on the grill and I ate them without a word. It is what is in your heart that counts. I would not insult my hosts or make them go through any special preparations.
They were gracious to invite me to their home for dinner. We are in the 21st century.
 
aa757first
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 11):

The world or an airline does not owe these people a Halal or Kosher or Vegetarian or some other kind of a meal.

They don't owe me a movie, frequent flier miles or a pillow, either.
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 60):
They don't owe me a movie, frequent flier miles or a pillow, either.

And I don't see you complaining either
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UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):
I call this religious brainwash .

Just like the respective religions themselves.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 25):
I just find this topic absurd.

I find religion absurd. The fact that supposedly intelligent people accept this indoctrination in this day and age is just so sad - especially as people are still dying over this bullshit.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 62):

I find religion absurd. The fact that supposedly intelligent people accept this indoctrination in this day and age is just so sad - especially as people are still dying over this bullshit.

...to each their own...
"Up the Irons!"
 
OTOPS
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
Secondly, I am somewhat shocked by the anti-religious animosity displayed on this forum. I am not quite sure how my personal religious eating habits are inconveniencing other people. Also, the hostility with which these opinions have been expressed bothers me. Someone, please clarify what is so bothersome about me ordering a Kosher meal when I fly? Also, it might be in the airline's interest to serve Kosher meals. I fly 70,000 miles a year on United and I fly Business class internationally.If they stopped serving Kosher meals on their international flights I would be forced to fly a different airline.

People are starting to realize religion is the cause of most of the conflict in the world. This is why there is so much "anti-religious animosity" Look what we've learned from this thread; Halal and Kosher (please don't correct me with the petty differences) are almost the same thing yet these two groups of people still cant get along with each other because they think they are so different.
Airbus-A name that manages to make aviation sound uncool.
 
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afterburner
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:11 pm

This thread has drifted away from its original topic. This forum is not the right place to talk about religions, faiths, or beliefs. We are here because of our similar interest, aviation. So put away our other irrelevant interests.
 
OTOPS
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 65):
This thread has drifted away from its original topic. This forum is not the right place to talk about religions, faiths, or beliefs. We are here because of our similar interest, aviation. So put away our other irrelevant interests.

I think this thread is about how religion and aviations paths have crossed and you cant talk about this topic without some religious reference. Although I agree it has strayed a little too far and I apologize for contributing to that.
Airbus-A name that manages to make aviation sound uncool.
 
Mir
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
But I imagine there must be fairly regular demand on JFK-HAM

Kosher food on a flight to HAM? That's ironic....  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
aa757first
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 61):

And I don't see you complaining either

Right, and I'm not so close-minded that I demand everyone else eat the same food I do. It is very reasonable that an airline would provide a full range of special meals on a long-haul flight, especially if they're trying to be a service oriented airline. Now, I don't think Emirates should be forced to do so, but it seems like stupid business sense not to.

Quoting OTOPS (Reply 64):
Look what we've learned from this thread; Halal and Kosher (please don't correct me with the petty differences) are almost the same thing yet these two groups of people still cant get along with each other because they think they are so different.

"Almost" the same? Maybe. The same? No. Kosher meals can be served to passengers requesting Kosher meals and to passengers requesting Halal meals. Halal meals cannot be served to passengers requesting Kosher meals. Maybe they're the same to you and I, they're not the same to those passengers.

And besides Dallasnewark, I don't think very many people have made issues over special meals. After all, if move 300 people over the Atlantic in six hours I think we can manage figuring out special meals.
 
OTOPS
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 68):
"Almost" the same? Maybe. The same? No. Kosher meals can be served to passengers requesting Kosher meals and to passengers requesting Halal meals. Halal meals cannot be served to passengers requesting Kosher meals. Maybe they're the same to you and I, they're not the same to those passengers.

If one can eat the others but not vice versa then they cant be that different and thats my point. People can be so similar yet so hositle to each other. It was in response to the following:

Quoting OTOPS (Reply 64):
Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
Secondly, I am somewhat shocked by the anti-religious animosity displayed on this forum. I am not quite sure how my personal religious eating habits are inconveniencing other people. Also, the hostility with which these opinions have been expressed bothers me.
Airbus-A name that manages to make aviation sound uncool.
 
antskip
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24):
"Kosher practice does not require Jews to pronounce the name of God on the animals while slaughtering, but Muslims must pronounce the name of ALLAH on all animals while slaughtering."

God=Allah=Yaweh. One and the same, both logically and according to each religion. Christianity adds Jesus to the Jewish prophets; Islam adds Mohammed along with Jesus (but as a prophet, not as the "son of God/Allah/Yahweh). Noah and Abraham are not more or less Jewish as Christian or Muslim. The focus of their worship is certainly one and the same. Pronouncing the name of God over food preparation is one and the same as pronouncing the name of Allah.

Quoting OTOPS (Reply 64):
these two groups of people still cant get along with each other because they think they are so different.

Just another case of sibling rivalry. But siblings are allowed to have their differences - and allowed to have different food rules. No one comes to any harm by having different food preferences, for whatever reason. God may be the same in every mono-theist religion (assuming we live in a uni-verse), but ritual and and eating differences are proper and appropriate - and should be respected. It is up to each airline to make a commercial decision whether to wish to cater for those preferences.
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting OTOPS (Reply 64):
yet these two groups of people still cant get along with each other because they think they are so different.

Be careful how broadly you tar with that brush. In my experience it is primarily the fundamentalist ultra-religious groups in Israel, Palestine, and some of the Arab states (on both sides, Muslim and Jewish) who can't get along with each other. In North America, relations between Jews and Muslims tend to be cordial. Indeed, often friendly. Even in Israel, there is a vast segment of the population (mostly secular Jews) who want nothing more than peace and cordial relations with their Arab and Muslim neighbors. As only a single example, I know a professor at the Hadassah Medical School of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem who never accepts a Jewish student or postdoctoral fellow into his research group unless it is balanced by accepting an Arab student or postdoctoral fellow at the same time. Unfortunately, the ultra-religious right has disproportionate political clout in Israel. Equally unfortunately, the U.S. has taken a 6-year hiatus from any useful engagement in the Middle East. And getting back to the original question posed in this thread, I've personally seen a kosher meal served to a passenger on Emirates, on a FRA-DXB flight. Didn't see it going the other way, DXB-FRA, but maybe there were simply no orthodox Jews seated near me travelling DXB-FRA. I presume that requests are placed by telephone, since the web site does not seem to accommodate them. As noted in previous posts.

ChinaClipper40
 
UAEflyer
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:38 pm

Muslims can eat any type of food, IF he/she didn't find a halal food, when i was studying overseas, i asked a some one in the Islamic society in the city, can i eat Christians food he said yes, when i asked if possible to have Jews he said no problem at all, BUT make sure it doesn't contain pork & alcohol.
 
777way
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 72):
Muslims can eat any type of food, IF he/she didn't find a halal food, when i was studying overseas, i asked a some one in the Islamic society in the city, can i eat Christians food he said yes, when i asked if possible to have Jews he said no problem at all, BUT make sure it doesn't contain pork & alcohol.

Seems quite logical, if you actually bother to analyse the scriptures.

Quoting Nycaross (Reply 59):
I am an Anglican and observe not eating meat on Ash Wednesday and the Fridays in Lent. This year, during Lent, I was invited into someone's home for dinner on a Friday in Lent. They made steaks on the grill and I ate them without a word. It is what is in your heart that counts. I would not insult my hosts or make them go through any special preparations.
They were gracious to invite me to their home for dinner. We are in the 21st century.

As Muslim I wouldnt eat pork if invited to a place where they were only serving that stuff, I may however drink a glass of whatever booze they are serving if they have nothing else, I personally do not see anything wrong with having a glass or two of an alcoholic drink occassionally, though I dont drink at all nor do I enjoy it, call me hypocrite.
 
rjpieces
Topic Author
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 73):
I may however drink a glass of whatever booze they are serving if they have nothing else



Quoting 777way (Reply 73):
though I dont drink at all

Oxymoron?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
777way
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:16 pm

There is such a thing as occassional social drinking even for us who do not strictly adhere to rules, or do you always have an axe to grind where Muslims are involved, like a mischief maker?
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
I am somewhat shocked by the anti-religious animosity displayed on this forum. I am not quite sure how my personal religious eating habits are inconveniencing other people. Also, the hostility with which these opinions have been expressed bothers me. Someone,

Yeah, thats the way the world is----lots of hatred and animosity, intolerance, and ignorance. When I first joined this web-site I too was shocked by all the nasty anti-semitic vitriol----however, there are so many really nice and interesting people on the site, I just "tune-out" all the misrable folks.

For the folks who own any kind of Judeo/Christian Bible, the basics of the kosher laws as the Lord instructed Moses, can be found in the Old Testament book of Leviticus, chapter 11. (The book of Leviticus is a set of major laws the Lord gave the Jewish people that effect all different things such as food, social behavior, etc.)

To religious Jews keeping kosher is an "obligation", not just some sort of a whimsical tradition that one may occasionaly forget about if the mood isn't just right.

As previously mentioned there are ancient collections of Jewish people in all areas of the Middle-East----Iran, Syria, Jordan, just to name a few.Many of these are established business people. So it is not unusual that the airlines of those countries would cater to their needs a bit and offer kosher meals. Especially since they can be kept in the freezer---ready to board on short notice, and not require special kitchen facilities.

Kosher has a lot to do with purity, cleanliness, and in regards to slaughtering of an animal-------humane treatment. Many things are NOT kosher such as genetically altered fruits and vegetables, all shellfish such as shrimp, crab, lobster, clams,etc. Only fish with fins and scales can be kosher. Total seperation of meat and dairy foods is also required, with seperate dishes,flatware and cooking utensils. So as you can see ,there is a lot more to it. That is why it is a way of life to those who are observant.

IMO it is a great idea for the airlines that do serve food to cater to some special needs. After all, the public is all-encompassing------not just a select group. Take this web-site for instance----- Wink
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
rjpieces
Topic Author
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 75):
There is such a thing as occassional social drinking even for us who do not strictly adhere to rules, or do you always have an axe to grind where Muslims are involved, like a mischief maker?

Relax, I was just wondering why you would be so strict about not eating pork but be ok with having a drink. Plus, as I pointed out, you can not say that you don't drink and then say that you will have an occasional drink if it is served.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
777way
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:59 am

One can say whatever they like, I know what context I am speaking in and dont need to explain anything, Pork I would never touch as wouldnt 99.99% of Muslims who may drink too.
 
SkyvanMan
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:31 am

I am a semi-observant jew that chooses to be kosher. I will eat meals that conform to the rules of Kosher (minus the rabbinical oversight part) becuase if I was to only eat meat that was labeled Kosher I would limit by choices of restaurant eating and thereby limit my travelling options. On my way to France I took LTU and had requested a kosher meal, upon boarding I was told that my request was denied! I was very upset with them over that and let it be known but I ended up eating the pasta choice for the first meal and abstaining from eating for the second one (ham and cheese). I was more pissed off that I was not informed that I wouldn't be able to get a kosher meal after having requesting one than I would have been if one had not been available and I had been warned in advance (I would have brought a box of cheerios with me or something else to snack on.) I think that if Emirates chooses to not offer kosher meals that is fine, as long as they don't claim to offer something they don't. I know it is different for Orthodox jews, I'm not one of them and cannot speak for them, I'm simply a reform jew who chooses to be kosher and I am willing to eat things that may not be labeled kosher as long as they follow the rules of kosher such as no mixing of meat and dairy and no pork products and no blood.
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jfk787nyc
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:37 am

Kosher & Glatt Kosher are two different things.

Actually, 70% of all food in the United States are Kosher if not more.

Glatt Kosher is strictly for religious religious jewish people. The crazy Jews that claim Jews who do not eat Glatt Kosher are not Jews at all.

In Israel there were situations when Religious Jews throw rocks at reformed Jewish cars on Saturdays. LOL
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 11):
I wondered that myself what would happen if the Jew/Muslim/Buddhist for once ate something different. Would the Earth stop spinning because of that.

no but its what they believe and you should respect that.
would the world stop spinning if you didnt go on airliners.net for a month?
i dont think so
try it and let me know

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):

Would they be considered lesser Jews because they had just Kosher and not Glatt-Kosher meal by the lord ????
I call this religious brainwash .

call it what you want but thats what you see it as
honstley it may seem strenge but its how they would like to live and let it be.
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 80):
Glatt Kosher is strictly for religious religious jewish people. The crazy Jews that claim Jews who do not eat Glatt Kosher are not Jews at all.

I keep Glatt Kosher and I am a religious Jew. I don't consider those who don't eat kosher to be non jews.If the mother is Jewish then they ARE A JEW. I wear a yarmulke and t-shirts and jeans. I pray 3 times a day and I watch movies and travel and do just about everything else that other people do. I am a modern orthodox Jew.

Let's get back to topic folks.
 
OTOPS
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Antskip (Reply 70):
Just another case of sibling rivalry.

Interesting way to describe hatred and war.
Airbus-A name that manages to make aviation sound uncool.
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 13):



Quoting JFK69 (Reply 82):

I keep Glatt Kosher and I am a religious Jew. I don't consider those who don't eat kosher to be non jews.If the mother is Jewish then they ARE A JEW. I wear a yarmulke and t-shirts and jeans. I pray 3 times a day and I watch movies and travel and do just about everything else that other people do. I am a modern orthodox Jew.

as am i all of those

and as many should know almost any where in the world you can see people like this mostly business people

the most intresting being vietnam cause when i was their there wer around 15 people (jews) and about 4 lived there
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
EK773
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:16 pm

Getting back to the original point of the post.

On 02June there was a KSML loaded on one of my flights ex-DXB. The box packaging was from a catering company in Antwerp, Belgium.
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:44 pm

I spoke to a cousin of mine who lives in Israel and to go to Dubai for Business. He flew to DXB via CDG and said there was a Hermolis meal for him both ways. His company took care of the booking so he wasn't aware of the whole not available on the website situation.
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2697
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
it might be in the airline's interest to serve Kosher meals.

Exactly.. especially when you fly to NY.

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 47):
Also, there are different restrictions on what type of animals Jews are allowed to eat

Can you please tell me what type of animals you can't eat? I'm curious. Thanks
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 am

This website may help.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

"Animals that may not be eaten
Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud. Lev. 11:3; Deut. 14:6. Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden. The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications. Sheep, cattle, goats, deer and bison are kosher.

Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted.

For birds, the criteria is less clear. The Torah provides a list of forbidden birds (Lev. 11:13-19; Deut. 14:11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden. All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction. Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks and turkeys. However, some people avoid turkey, because it is not mentioned in the Torah, leaving room for doubt.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Lev. 11:22), but the Sages are no longer certain which ones they are, so all have been forbidden. There are communities that have a tradition about what species are permitted, and in those communities some insects are eaten.

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden. Lev. 11:29-30, 42-43.

Some authorities require a post-mortem examination of the lungs of cattle, to determine whether the lungs are free from adhesions. If the lungs are free from such adhesions, the animal is deemed "glatt" (that is, "smooth"). In certain circumstances, an animal can be kosher without being glatt; however, the stringency of keeping "glatt kosher" has become increasingly common in recent years, and you would be hard-pressed to find any kosher meat that is not labeled as "glatt kosher."

As mentioned above, any product derived from these forbidden animals, such as their milk, eggs, fat, or organs, also cannot be eaten. Rennet, an enzyme used to harden cheese, is often obtained from non-kosher animals, thus kosher hard cheese can be difficult to find."

I am not sure if it has been looked into yet but I feel as if more than a few Special meal passengers would be willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the special.
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 45):

4. Finally, as long as EK's home country officially forbids Israelis or even any non-Israelis whose passports indicate at least one prior visit to Israel and/or an unused Israeli visa, we shouldn't be surprised at all if EK is so hush-hush about KSMLs.

not true at all
you said it yourself, their anti israel
that doesnt mean there anti jew's
me as a jew would go their as a jvacation and not be scared and order a kosher meal

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 80):


Actually, 70% of all food in the United States are Kosher if not more.

well, the packaged food atleast
one way to figure it out is on the package or box there is a symbol for kosher its OU witch is an o with a u inside its similar to the OR symbol
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
aa87
Posts: 284
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:59 am

I love this forum !!!!!!!!! Sorry to be corny, but isn't it great that a bunch of strangers across the world can get all riled up with each other simply because someone asked if Emirates offers kosher meals ? Only at A.net ...

Well, if anyone's still reading this beaten-to-death thread, just wanted to say that you can't make assumptions about someone based on their meal order. I keep kosher more strictly than most Jews, but not as strictly as orthodox. So if the regular meal is ok by my more liberal standards, I'll ask if there are extras. Just yesterday on OS I had a (great, btw) kosher lunch, and then chowed on the extras regular smoked salmon they had. Guess Dallasnewark would say I should be banned from eating anything from the regular meal service since I ordered kosher Big grin

And with due apologies to our non-US friends, the social/political comments here simply prove why America has discovered the perfect solution. We call it the First Amendment, which basically says government can't restrict a person's religious beliefs or practices, nor can government endorse or establish any religion. That's why religion has flourished in the US from the beginning, much to our collective benefit in my opinion.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 89):
Actually, 70% of all food in the United States are Kosher if not more.

well, the packaged food atleast
one way to figure it out is on the package or box there is a symbol for kosher its OU witch is an o with a u inside its similar to the OR symbol

Point to Ponder over by Americans.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:31 am

By the way, some not-that-much Kashrut-observant Jews who wish to eat Kosher when it isn't available would eat Halal meals as long as neither prepared mixing meat/poultry with dairy products nor includes those products which are Halal but not Kosher.
It's assumed that the preparation of canned/frozen Halal meals available in supermarkets in Western Europe and Northamerica do comply with strict health regulations which may compare to the Kosher supervision.

Back to the U.A.E. and EK Kosher meals; even if the U.A.E. keeps its relations at a "long diplomatic distance" from Israel, sooner than later there'll facilities for kosher products there. With the amount of foreign tourists coming and relocating in the U.A.E. (DXB knows how to market itself), there'll be a demand for Kosher products.
EK could well hire a non-israeli Shohet (Jewish slaughter) or Rabbinic supervisor to supervise KSML and MOSL meals in an already Halal catering facility.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26542
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RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):

I wonder if El Al offers Muslim meals? Their website doesn't seem to indicate on their special meals page.

They really don't need to

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
Halal can be performed by anyone

Adendum: Any member of the cloth

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
I believe that if you keep Halal you can eat Kosher food but not vice versa.

This is true.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 11):

I wondered that myself what would happen if the Jew/Muslim/Buddhist for once ate something different. Would the Earth stop spinning because of that.

The Earth wouldn't stop spinning if I ate a steak, but I choose not to eat red meat and will give my business to people who honor that.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 12):

Maybe it was because Sabena didn't serve Glatt Kosher meals?

Pretty much all KSMLs are Glatt for the specific reason that airlines don't want to be bothered with even more special requests. They usually go for the strictest interpretation to avoid a conflict. This is probably why they don't include alcohol cooked foods in Moslem meals despite that it technically has no basis for being Haram

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 11):

The world or an airline does not owe these people a Halal or Kosher or Vegetarian or some other kind of a meal.

Hey, they don't owe them a meal at all but do because they want their patronage.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):

It wouldn't be kosher to serve Kosher to a Muslim if it contained alcohol.

Actually, that isn't true. It seems to be more of an airline interpretation to cover their bums.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 20):
Actually when a wine or any alcoholic bevarage is added to food the alcohol within evaporates during the cooking due to a low boiling tempreture. That was my understanding of why Kosher is Halal, been having it for sometime so I hope I am not wrong.

You are correct. Similarly, Moslems can consume vinegar because it no longer has intoxicating qualities

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 45):
Also, doesn't halal allow the consumption of meat and dairy in the same meal

Yes. Moslems can also eat shell fish. Then again, to a vegetarian, those who keep Kosher mix milk and meat when they eat fish with dairy.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: Emirates And Kosher Food--Issue Resolved?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting OTOPS (Reply 64):
People are starting to realize religion is the cause of most of the conflict in the world.

I'd like to point out that this is a common theme trumpeted by people who insist secular morals produce a more peaceful and respectful society. (Which is a shaky concept to begin with...how do you transmit and enforce morality without something above yourself to define it? If you define it, who says you're right? What if I want to define what's moral instead of letting you do it?) However, the first half of the 20th century saw two highly avowed secular empires destroy almost 100,000,000 between them, most of them their own. (Soviet Communism and German Facism) It's a fascile argument to say that there'd be world peace if people stopped believing in God and organized religion.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.

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