I can't take any credit for noticing this - the keen observer was a friend of mine - but is it possible, that without making anything public, Lufthansa have changed their livery? I will admit, it is a very very very slight change, but compare the front of D-AIKE
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=d9c94f09d806e0b3decb758111e51e00
to the newer D-AIKR
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=64dfb0137083fe5e7bdd2c738a81d0ab
and you will notice that the ventral grey covers different portions of the radome.
Does anybody here have an explanation for this? And is it noteworthy at all or is this a normal modus operandi for an airline?
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting LZ129 (Thread starter): Does anybody here have an explanation for this? |
Maybe it's just easier to paint the radome all one color.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1): Maybe it's just easier to paint the radome all one color. |
If I had to guess, I would say this as well. The radome is a different material and does require I believe a different paint technique to be applied to it. I am going off my memory on that, so I could be wrong, but it would seem to make sense!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
Is it just me, or in the first pic, doesn't it look like the gray under coat starts to slant up a little just behind the pitot tubes?? This could be the difference between the two.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting cbphoto (Reply 2): The radome is a different material and does require I believe a different paint technique to be applied to it. I am going off my memory on that, |
They're usually painted separately I think. Once in a while you'll even see one that's been painted upside down.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1): Maybe it's just easier to paint the radome all one color. |
The problem is, they still cover some of the radome in grey. Wouldn't they have left it white completely if that was the reason for the change?
You can see it better in this picture:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=ec88c949140011bf63857e2a3a9b6c05
[Edited 2013-02-20 10:35:06]
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting LZ129 (Reply 5): The problem is, they still cover some of the radome in grey. |
Good catch. If not that, it may just be a variation between different paint shops. It wouldn't be the first time they just did something a little bit off.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6): Good catch. If not that, it may just be a variation between different paint shops. |
I thought so, too, but D-AIKQ shows the same change, so it seems to be something they did deliberately.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=1695439cb51004d0d754f632e5cd531a
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
I just checked again and the change is on D-AIKP, D-AIKQ and D-AIKR - in other words: on all the frames delivered in 2012.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
Didnt notice that so far, thanks. Surely that has to do with the radome issue.
One thing that changed recently is the registration on LH planes. LH used the LH Corporate font before which perfectly matches the logos, the authorities forced the airline to use a less elegant standard font based on the DIN now.
One thing that changed recently is the registration on LH planes. LH used the LH Corporate font before which perfectly matches the logos, the authorities forced the airline to use a less elegant standard font based on the DIN now.
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- YYCSpotter
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
One other thing that I noticed, was the lack of naming of the aircraft. has LH stopped naming their aircraft?
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting YYCSpotter (Reply 10): One other thing that I noticed, was the lack of naming of the aircraft. has LH stopped naming their aircraft? |
That refers to most airplanes aquired in the past few years (except the fleet "flagships" A380s and 747-8s which all carry names). LH seems to be very slow with naming aircraft recently, although a few of the latest deliveries have names. Odd when so many names are free now that one third of the 737s have gone to the scrappers in the past one-and-a-half years.
But its not a change in policy, maybe they job positions responsible have been axed in the cost cutting process.
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- kc135topboom
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
It looks line all they did was lower the waterline between the two colors, maybe by about 3" (76 mm). That way the radome is all white, at least on the A-333 and A-343. What about the rest of the fleet, like the B-744/8s?
The color change on the radar does not effect the efficency of the weather radar. But, I believe they don't use lacquer (oil based), but do use an emulsion paint (water based). The different types of paints can be color matched.
The color change on the radar does not effect the efficency of the weather radar. But, I believe they don't use lacquer (oil based), but do use an emulsion paint (water based). The different types of paints can be color matched.
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1): Maybe it's just easier to paint the radome all one color. |
Many airlines avoid liveries that require multiple colors on parts such as radomes, engine cowls etc. These parts, unlike most of the aircraft, are sometimes replaced due to damage. Having these parts painted in all one color avoids the mis-match issues you may have if your spares are not masked and sprayed in an identical fashion. The radome and engine cowlings are highly visible and any mis-match looks terribly un-professional.
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
the line between the white upper fuselage and the grey belly is defined by the leading edge and trailing edge of the wings. it usually follows the respective water line*. it seems that in the "old" paint scheme this line goes horizontal where the fuselage narrows towards the nose. due to the nose down pitch of A330 and A340 the line seems to be bent upwards. withe the "new" paint scheme they follow the water line all the way to the random. I think the paint shops got new guidelines when someone realized that this bend looks odd
*I'm not sure if the term water line is correct, as the fuselage has a nose down orientation. on these aircraft, does the water line follow the stringer or is it parallel to the ground when the aircraft is on the ground?
*I'm not sure if the term water line is correct, as the fuselage has a nose down orientation. on these aircraft, does the water line follow the stringer or is it parallel to the ground when the aircraft is on the ground?
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting horstroad (Reply 14): *I'm not sure if the term water line is correct, as the fuselage has a nose down orientation. on these aircraft, does the water line follow the stringer or is it parallel to the ground when the aircraft is on the ground? |
Waterline is (or was) the straight line, respective to the airplane, not the ground. So, yes, it follows the stringers
Imagine how weird the tail will look when all those A-330s are painted into the new AA livery.
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- DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15): Imagine how weird the tail will look when all those A-330s are painted into the new AA livery. |
The 777s also have that down angle. It won't be too controversial.
Well, you know what they say. Whatever doesn't kill you...
... Must not be an MD-11.
... Must not be an MD-11.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
I'm glad to see I'm not the only airline geek to notice such things. Regardless of whether official change or not, there are few classier liveries out there than Lufthansa. Understated grace is there ever was. Bold tail and airline title, and that's all you need.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting reffado (Reply 18): Lufthansa just uses Helvetica on their logo, but I'm not sure what they used in the regs. |
I think the regs are still helvetica, but regular or medium instead of bold... there are so many variations of helvetica...
http://www.911fonts.com/search.php?s=helvetica
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- twincessna340a
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting reffado (Reply 18): Regardless of whether official change or not, there are few classier liveries out there than Lufthansa. Understated grace is there ever was. Bold tail and airline title, and that's all you need. |
Agree eleventy billion times and couldn't have said it better myself. Everytime there is a livery thread here this thought comes to mind.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting twincessna340a (Reply 20): |
Agreed. They managed to achieve the purpose of a livery with minimalist elements, and they do it much better than a low of airlines out there. And let's not forget that they always keep their planes very clean!
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting as739x (Reply 3): Is it just me, or in the first pic, doesn't it look like the gray under coat starts to slant up a little just behind the pitot tubes?? This could be the difference between the two. |
I agree with this observation ... the waterline slants/curves slightly upward towards the nose. I think LH noticed that and rectified that, and probably made a slight adjustment so it hits below the radome to avoid paint conflicts.
| Quoting horstroad (Reply 19): I think the regs are still helvetica, but regular or medium instead of bold... there are so many variations of helvetica... |
It's definitely a different typeface, most likely based on DIN as others have said.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12): It looks line all they did was lower the waterline between the two colors, maybe by about 3" (76 mm). That way the radome is all white, at least on the A-333 and A-343. |
That does sound like a reasonable explanation, but (and I have to repeat myself here) if you look very closely at this picture
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=ec88c949140011bf63857e2a3a9b6c05
you will notice that a tiny bit of the radome is still painted grey - even with the new livery. If the radome issue was the cause of the change, wouldn't they have gone all the way and left it entirely white?
Or am I seeing something that's not there and it actually is all white?
[Edited 2013-02-21 01:39:16]
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting reffado (Reply 18): Lufthansa just uses Helvetica on their logo, but I'm not sure what they used in the regs. But I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the registration font to something following the DIN, but I don't see the point. Looks pretty readable now, and always has. |
LH uses a slightly modified Helvetica, not the standard you can buy.
| Quoting horstroad (Reply 19): I think the regs are still helvetica, but regular or medium instead of bold... there are so many variations of helvetica... |
Registrations are in a modified DIN Bold Font now. They stared that with the first A380 or around that time, as all A380s and 748s use the new font. I think thats an official font also used by many other airlines, perhaps one of those infamous EU regulations created by bored officials who have to justify their ridiculously high wages. I noticed though this font is also used by non-European airlines.
LH also does change the reg´s on older planes when they have a major check. I noticed that on MD11F D-ALCC after they removed the 100 years air cargo stickers.
| Quoting LZ129 (Reply 23): you will notice that a tiny bit of the radome is still painted grey - even with the new livery. If the radome issue was the cause of the change, wouldn't they have gone all the way and left it entirely white? Or am I seeing something that's not there and it actually is all white? |
You are right. I think the "waterline" just was slightly curved upwards at the front before. Maybe it just has to do with who painted the plane and how exactly they follwowed LHs paint plans. You´ll see the waterline meets the wing leading edge still at the same height.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting na (Reply 24): You´ll see the waterline meets the wing leading edge still at the same height. |
Correct, and on the rear of the plane the line meets the 'tip' of the flaps in retracted state on all aircraft. Since this edge is higher, on the front of all planes there is more white than on the rear.
LH's paint scheme is truly a piece of art: Classy, easily recognizable, hidden details and timeless - unlike most other modern liveries, like AA or MH for example that just seem to be too 'cheap' and brutally modern. Even AF's new logo and changes in livery destroyed their classy look imho.
As for if there is a reason in the latest changes of painting less of the radome grey (but not all of it white), I don't know. But I surely think there are no coincidences and accidents on LH's paint scheme.
Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting na (Reply 11): That refers to most airplanes aquired in the past few years (except the fleet "flagships" A380s and 747-8s which all carry names). LH seems to be very slow with naming aircraft recently, although a few of the latest deliveries have names. Odd when so many names are free now that one third of the 737s have gone to the scrappers in the past one-and-a-half years. |
They are slow in naming them, yes, but they are definitely still naming aircraft.
For example, I flew on D-AISK (an A321) in March 2008, about a month after it was delivered new to LH. At the time, the aircraft was nameless. I flew on D-AISK again a few weeks ago, and was happy to see that it now has a name ("Emden").
Be patient. They'll get around to it!
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar!
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
I don't think this is a deliberate change.
To me. tt looks more like the job of masking off the grey and white areas on D-AIKE during painting was rushed. Whoever did it, did not keep the curvature of the fuselage in mind. It is easy to have a straight line creep upward on an upward curve if you don't pay enough attention.
The crew who painted D-AIKR however seem to have gotten it right. They probably took the time to step back and check the masking was straight and level.
To me. tt looks more like the job of masking off the grey and white areas on D-AIKE during painting was rushed. Whoever did it, did not keep the curvature of the fuselage in mind. It is easy to have a straight line creep upward on an upward curve if you don't pay enough attention.
The crew who painted D-AIKR however seem to have gotten it right. They probably took the time to step back and check the masking was straight and level.
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting garpd (Reply 28): I don't think this is a deliberate change. To me. tt looks more like the job of masking off the grey and white areas on D-AIKE during painting was rushed. |
That is almost certainly incorrect. All but the last three A333 have the upward creep. Both the old and the new style seem to be deliberate.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting LZ129 (Reply 29): That is almost certainly incorrect. All but the last three A333 have the upward creep. Both the old and the new style seem to be deliberate. |
That doesn't mean the upward sweep was correct. Quality Control can fail at many levels.
All other LH Aircraft seem to feature a level belly line.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=21909b96efd959e0ea77cfa0e67f3a7e
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=21909b96efd959e0ea77cfa0e67f3a7e
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=21909b96efd959e0ea77cfa0e67f3a7e
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=64f3ac230444792dac433ce0083304fd
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=64f3ac230444792dac433ce0083304fd
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=64f3ac230444792dac433ce0083304fd
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...d=95efe69e13306c51056f5646b9688300
It seems only the A330s and A340s had this strange and frankly silly looking curvature at the nose.
My bet is the same team is responsible for all of those paint jobs and it's a team that don't have an eye for detail.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just going by 10 years experience in dealing with aircraft liveries and the mistakes even the most well known paint shops make.
[Edited 2013-02-21 10:30:56]
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RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
| Quoting garpd (Reply 30): That doesn't mean the upward sweep was correct. Quality Control can fail at many levels. All other LH Aircraft seem to feature a level belly line. |
With the exception of the A343's. But since they have the same nose it is plausible that the same mistake was made there...
So it actually looks as though Lufthansa was just quietly ironing out a decade old and long mistake.
RE: Very Slight Change In Lufthansa Livery
I'm not saying I'm right by any means! But yes, that is my theory.
However, say this was a glitch, for arguments sake. It is quite small, only noticeable by us rivet counters and not something an airline would generally reject a plane for, or send it back to the paint shop for several more days. (Though I have had a client reject a plane because a curve was 1 degree out on one side of the plane on an area of paint barely big enough to cover a living room coffee table!)
It's likely that if this was a mistake, LH, or whoever was in charge of accepting new aircraft from the manufacturer shrugged their shoulders and planned to iron it out with heavy maintenance or normal scheduled paintwork refresh.
However, say this was a glitch, for arguments sake. It is quite small, only noticeable by us rivet counters and not something an airline would generally reject a plane for, or send it back to the paint shop for several more days. (Though I have had a client reject a plane because a curve was 1 degree out on one side of the plane on an area of paint barely big enough to cover a living room coffee table!)
It's likely that if this was a mistake, LH, or whoever was in charge of accepting new aircraft from the manufacturer shrugged their shoulders and planned to iron it out with heavy maintenance or normal scheduled paintwork refresh.
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