tyler81190
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:32 am

I hope the pilots take a stand and vote NO...
 
norcal
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 100):
I hope the pilots take a stand and vote NO...

There is not a reason in the world they should trust AAG. After all the Eagle pilots voted in concessions to save the company during bankruptcy under the promise that it was enough and that new aircraft would come. Their management refused to guarantee a fleet plan because they needed the deal done and couldn't get court approval in time for financing to buy new aircraft. Instead they negotiated a furlough protection under the promise from management that it was as good as a fleet plan and would guarantee placement of aircraft at American Eagle.

What a load of lies that turned out to be for American Eagle pilots. Now a year after voting in a contract with huge concessions and mechanisms to keep longevity costs matched to the two most competitive regional airlines, management has come back to them asking for even more concessions in exchange for the "guarantee" of 60 aircraft. That only provides 600 pilot jobs, jeopardizing 80%+ of the current pilot work force. Meanwhile, management rewards themselves with record bonuses, while the company makes record profits.

I would be very wary if I was an American Eagle pilot. Management flat out lied to them in the first place, what is to stop them from coming back again in a year or even sooner for more concessions? They already did it once after promising that American Eagle's future is secure and new planes are coming.


If you look at any pilot forums you can read up on blatant contract violations (many in arbitration right now), most notably the flow through agreement. They are violating the agreement and restricting the amount of pilots that can flow to American because they can't attract new hires to Eagle to replace those that are leaving. This despite the fact that the airline is already shrinking! No regional can keep up with the rate of attrition right now, so it seems rather asinine to keep shoving concessions down pilots throats with bully tactics. If anything they need to be offering raises (at least for the first year) in order to keep regionals solvent. They are getting bigger aircraft with more seats and thus the ability to generate more revenue (including premium revenue).

The continuous squeeze of these regional pilots might look great to these bean counters eager to get a bonus next quarter, but long term they will cripple or possibly destroy the regional feed they depend so much on.

No wonder so many of Eagle pilots are saying, "Screw it, go ahead and Comair us!" There are plenty of other opportunities out there. From reports I've been hearing they are losing 40-50 pilots a month right now.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:34 am

Quoting norcal (Reply 101):
No wonder so many of Eagle pilots are saying, "Screw it, go ahead and Comair us!" There are plenty of other opportunities out there. From reports I've been hearing they are losing 40-50 pilots a month right now.

Are those 50 people leaving the company for other airlines besides the ~30/month flow through to AA or including that? If separate, the airline would have effectively no pilots left in 3 years except for new recruits.

This is why I asked what will happen if MQ shut down flying over 2 years or so.
 
tyler81190
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:11 am

Quoting norcal (Reply 101):
No wonder so many of Eagle pilots are saying, "Screw it, go ahead and Comair us!" There are plenty of other opportunities out there. From reports I've been hearing they are losing 40-50 pilots a month right now.
Quoting kd5mdk (Reply 102):
Are those 50 people leaving the company for other airlines besides the ~30/month flow through to AA or including that? If separate, the airline would have effectively no pilots left in 3 years except for new recruits.

Seems about right as to what I have heard as well... And yes it does look like unless they can attract a massive number of new pilots very soon, they may just have to start chartering planes to provide the regional feed. (something that ExpressJet may have to do as well for UA)
 
norcal
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:41 pm

Quoting kd5mdk (Reply 102):

Right now it is 20 a month to AA and 20-30 a month to legacies, LCCs, corporate, overseas, or a bunch leaving the industry all together.

Supposedly PSA is going to become the new standard, but when upgrade times are dropping rapidly at every regional, why would a new hire subject themselves to bottom of industry compensation?

The plan is to grow PSA by 30 CRJ-900s, essentially doubling the size of the company with 400 new pilots. At the rate of attrition at all regionals those CRJ-900s will become replacements not growth. There won't be the staffing for growth at any regional.
 
bostonmike
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 104):
There won't be the staffing for growth at any regional.

OK, I am a little confused. People on this forum are anecdotally observing a decline in the number of pilots available or flying for the regionals. The FAA is reporting a decline in applications for commercial pilots licenses (I don't have the source document on this). Universities offering professional pilot coursework report a decline in registrations. (I don't have the source document on this). FAR 117 is wrecking havoc at the regionals.

Assuming the above to be true, where the hell is the industry heading? The big guys are using the regionals for domestic feed (+ or - 50% of the flying) because they can get it cheaper than doing it themselves. Outsourcing is the proper term. Whipsawing down the cost of services is more apt. But where does the cost cutting end and self-destruction begin. If Skywest, Republic, Eagle or any of the others run out of pilots, who can you hire to do a charter if the other regionals can barely fly their own schedules?

What are the majors seeing that we aren't seeing? They could decrease regional pilot requirements by up-sizing the regional aircraft. But 76 seats seems to be the limit set by scope clauses. Will they offer to pay the major airline pilots more to get an increase in the scope size?

Please help this old geezer get some clarity in this!!!
 
Wayfarer515
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:15 pm

In my point of view the majors have used the scope clause as a tool for their own benefit, but one which in the end will bite them back in the hand.

The scope clause has two big advantages for them, the most obvious one is that it let them lower pilot wages and the second one is that it gives them a perfect excuse to increase flight frequencies.

So now you've got a combination in which a not so efficient operation in terms of CASM has to be profitable to make the shareholders happy, so you cut costs where it is easier to do it, that being the RJ pilots wages. They already have a scope clause that gives them the framework to do this so they are just using it for their own benefit. IMHO the pilots were completely duped into believing the scope clause was something beneficial for them when it wasn't. Even the majors pilots have seen their market slowly eroding into the RJ territory.

So far this scenario has worked because the supply and demand of pilots has been relatively balanced. Now we are starting to see signs that pilots are fed up and suddenly your supply is shrinking. Less frequencies with small 70 seaters will not cut it, and to make it worse you will have to start raising wages if you don't want a massive pilot exodus, suddenly your master plan of underpaid pilots and high frequencies with 70-seaters just went down the drain.

So in the very near future expect the infamous scope clause to disappear (worst case scenario) or more likely to be modified for up to 100 seaters. But I think the RJ market is about to change for good, and I think if the pilot supply starts shrinking by the numbers other forum members are mentioning, this will go down with a bang.

Prepare to see some real fireworks, I think the MQ situation will be the catalyst for this.

I just wish the RJ pilots good luck, in the end I think time will bring justice for them.
 
JA
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 105):
But where does the cost cutting end and self-destruction begin. If Skywest, Republic, Eagle or any of the others run out of pilots, who can you hire to do a charter if the other regionals can barely fly their own schedules?

The destruction has already begun. People are no longer waiting to be shoved out of the door. They are applying for jobs at other major airlines. That is creating problems at some regionals because they are short staffed. So, the choice is going to be to pay more or place mainline equipment in service (or both). The surviving regionals will regain pricing power.
 
silentbob
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 104):
The plan is to grow PSA by 30 CRJ-900s, essentially doubling the size of the company with 400 new pilots. At the rate of attrition at all regionals those CRJ-900s will become replacements not growth.

I have said from day 1 that I believe those CRJ-900s will be CRJ-200 replacements.

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 106):
So in the very near future expect the infamous scope clause to disappear (worst case scenario) or more likely to be modified for up to 100 seaters.

Actually, I think pilots are not going to be very resistant to any increase in scope. I believe that you will be seeing a higher percentage of mainline flying at all of the majors.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 106):
IMHO the pilots were completely duped into believing the scope clause was something beneficial for them when it wasn't.

Scope clause is of benefit to mainline pilots at the cost of regional ones. Since it was imposed by mainline pilots, they don't have an incentive to remove it.

Quoting BostonMike (Reply 105):
Assuming the above to be true, where the hell is the industry heading? The big guys are using the regionals for domestic feed (+ or - 50% of the flying) because they can get it cheaper than doing it themselves. Outsourcing is the proper term. Whipsawing down the cost of services is more apt. But where does the cost cutting end and self-destruction begin. If Skywest, Republic, Eagle or any of the others run out of pilots, who can you hire to do a charter if the other regionals can barely fly their own schedules?

As long as the major can find someone to do the flying, they don't care which regional does it. So it's a game of musical chairs until someone can't find a regional to do their flying.

So, which regionals are having the most problems staffing, which have some slack thy can fill with additional flying, and how close are they to running out?
 
bostonmike
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 106):
Prepare to see some real fireworks, I think the MQ situation will be the catalyst for this.

I just wish the RJ pilots good luck, in the end I think time will bring justice for them.

There was a recent article in JAMA or NEJM about the potential for a "doctor's bubble". The cost of obtaining a medical degree continues to rise as pressure grows from hospitals to increase profits and reduce costs. Men and women who aspired to be physicians were willing to take on the student loan debt knowing their increased earning potential was not too far off. Now all of that may be changing.

The lure of a shiny jet and good wages brought most of us into the flying business. And timing was indeed everything. For today's regional pilot the picture is quite different. The risk/reward equation has dramatically tilted toward the risk side.

Quoting JA (Reply 107):
the choice is going to be to pay more or place mainline equipment in service (or both). The surviving regionals will regain pricing power.

I do think these are the only options.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:27 am

Reports out that pilots union and company have an agreement in principle on a new 10-year contract that would see 60 70-seat RJs placed at MQ between 2015-2017.
There apparently is also a additional option for placement at MQ for up to 90 tails down to road.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
commavia
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:05 pm

Interesting.

Apparently the MEC essentially voted to accept the company's last offer as the agreement in principle, and simply finalize contract language on that to be voted on by the membership. In exchange for stagnant pay, capped raises, no chance at meaningful reopeners during a 10-year contract, and other concessions, Eagle pilots guarantee themselves 60 EMBs, the flying for the next 90 EMBs optioned, and slightly faster flow-through to mainline.

It seems obvious the company is playing the long game with the new flow-through language. The faster flow-through helps facilitate and ease the relatively rapid depopulation of Eagle as the 50-seat flying is drawn down (to far fewer 76-seaters), while at the same time guaranteeing mainline access to a large pool of potential pilots with experience and plenty of hours. AA clearly knows there are plenty of Eagle pilots who have been stuck at Eagle for years who will happily make the jump to mainline. One things for sure: if this language passes, there is going to be a lot of movement at Eagle (to coincide with the movement at AA) over the next few years.

I do wonder whether this language will pass.

[Edited 2014-01-11 05:18:29]
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 111):
Reports out that pilots union and company have an agreement in principle on a new 10-year contract that would see 60 70-seat RJs placed at MQ between 2015-2017.
There apparently is also a additional option for placement at MQ for up to 90 tails down to road.

And now the pilot-wide vote.

Stay tuned...
 
KD5MDK
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:59 pm

So if this gets ratified, we get to see if MQ pilots can flow through faster than they can be hired.
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 114):
So if this gets ratified, we get to see if MQ pilots can flow through faster than they can be hired.

It doesn't matter. If there's a net loss, AMR will just give flying elsewhere.

Hopefully the Eagle pilots do the right thing - they're going into a very favorable market as the majors start hiring again, so better flow protection isn't worth all that much. Better pay until they do find other jobs (which will likely happen before AMR could close Eagle down anyway) is far more valuable, both to themselves and to those coming behind them in the industry.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
justplanenutz
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:47 pm

Seems like this only covers E-175s so, if it passes, what happens to the CR7s? Do they migrate over to PSA as CR2 replacements, leaving PSA as the in house CRJ operator and MQ the EMB operator?
 
oc2dc
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:05 pm

I was reading the highlights of the agreement but didn't see 2 important things.

1)Will there be a B scale for new pilots? It appears that it will only be caps after a certain amount of years. Would we consider that to be a B scale?

2) What is the language on pay for E-175 flying? Is all flying at Eagle going to be the same pay no matter the type of aircraft? I'm not sure if this was addressed during the the contract negotiation in bankruptcy.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
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Acey559
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 117):

No B scale, just pay caps at 12 years for captains and 4 for FOs. Pathetic. Pay rates will also stay the same so basically we'll be flying larger airplanes for 50-seat rates. The CR7s will likely be placed somewhere else since we don't own our planes anymore. And don't buy into the flow language, the company will violate that as they've been doing for years. This contract won't enhance anything, despite what people are saying. This thing is a crap sandwich with absolutely no redeeming points.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
commavia
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 116):
Seems like this only covers E-175s so, if it passes, what happens to the CR7s?

This agreement covers all flying by MQ - it's just that the E175s are new so they're called out specifically in multiple places. But all of the aforementioned terms - capped pay progression, vacation accrual, etc. - apply to all flying by all MQ pilots of all MQ aircraft. However, in the coming years there is naturally going to be a lot fewer pilots flying for MQ anyway because of a combination of (1) drawing down the ERJ fleet, (2) flow-through of MQ pilots up to mainline, and (3) other mainline carriers poaching MQ pilots, many of whom are relatively senior and quite experienced as regional pilots go.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 116):
Do they migrate over to PSA as CR2 replacements, leaving PSA as the in house CRJ operator and MQ the EMB operator?

Maybe, but not sure why they'd go through the hassle of moving those CR7s to another certificate if they're going to have quite competitive pay scales at MQ.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 118):
And don't buy into the flow language, the company will violate that as they've been doing for years. This contract won't enhance anything, despite what people are saying.

Not sure. The company may well do whatever they want and ALPA allows them to get away with. However, unlike for the last decade when AA wasn't hiring any pilots, AA mainline in the next few years is going to have a huge need for pilots and has a steady supply of potential candidates via this flow-through - exactly as the flow-through was originally intended years ago. So in the next few years, AA may actually have an incentive to flow Eagle pilots up to mainline, and again, the timing may work out perfectly as the planned return of the small ERJs to Embraer accelerates.
 
Mir
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:18 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 119):
However, unlike for the last decade when AA wasn't hiring any pilots, AA mainline in the next few years is going to have a huge need for pilots and has a steady supply of potential candidates via this flow-through - exactly as the flow-through was originally intended years ago.

They'd also have a steady supply of the same candidates without a flow-through.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bostonmike
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:11 pm

It's interesting to see this "flow through" as a negotiated item. Does it have an intrinsic value? It really seems a bit speculative to me. You can figure the cost/value of pay/working conditions/401k sections of a contract. But not everyone is going to get a job with the majors. The interviewer or interviewee can have a bad day. The candidate could do poorly on one of the myriad of psychological tests. And there is always the sim check to consider. I have known very accomplished military pilots who didn't get a job with American for those very reasons.

And what does a large independent regional like Republic do? Surely, because there is no potential benefit of a "flow through", their pilots should have the highest pay and best working conditions in the industry. But that's not how it really works, is it. With other regionals having this great potential flow through benefit, why would anyone want to work for Republic or Skywest?

So the plan is now to whipsaw down regional airline pilot costs by holding out the carrot of being in the big leagues. As we used to say, "show me the money", the rest is pie in the sky.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:58 pm

Letter from MQ president..


Dear American Eagle Team:

I am very pleased to report an agreement in principle, subject to language being finalized, has been reached with our pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA). If ratified, this agreement will form the foundations of a very bright future for not only our company, but also for our pilots by providing them new, large and modern aircraft to fly and a faster path to growing their careers at American Airlines.

The agreement will allow American Eagle Airlines to upgrade its fleet with a guarantee of 60 new Embraer 175 (E175) regional jets beginning in the first quarter of 2015. Additionally, American Eagle Airlines will have the opportunity to operate up to 90 additional E175 jets should American Airlines exercise the options on those aircraft.

The E175 is a top-tier regional product that offers a First Class cabin, Main Cabin Extra and in-flight Wi-Fi – important elements of an improved flying experience for our passengers. As one of the most fuel-efficient modern aircraft, the E175 will lower operating costs for our flying business when they begin replacing some of our smaller, less efficient 50-seat regional aircraft scheduled for retirement.

For our pilots specifically, this agreement dramatically improves their ability to further their careers at American Airlines by enhancing the company’s industry-leading Eagle-to-mainline flow through rights for current and new hire Eagle pilots. The time it takes for many of our pilots to qualify and be given priority over external candidates for pilot positions at American with this enhanced flow through will be nearly cut in half, allowing our current pilots to quickly advance and grow their careers at both Eagle and American. It will also help us attract the best new talent because we will be able to offer a clear career path to a mainline carrier and a positive career expectation no other regional carrier can currently offer.

Much work and discussion went into creating this agreement in principle that would satisfy all groups involved and should this be ratified, the future of our company looks brighter. ALPA will announce details of the agreement, which is subject to language being finalized, and a voting schedule soon and we are pleased our professional pilots will have the opportunity to vote on their future.

I commit to keeping you informed of any news and developments and as always, thank you for all of your work on behalf of our passengers and American Eagle Airlines.

Best Regards


=
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mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:39 pm

The labor agreement allowing for transfer to American Airlines after working at regional subsidiary seems pretty innovative and beneficial.

Any other airlines in America have such benefits ?
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:07 pm

I think Expressjet had something with Continental back in the day when CO owned them, but I am not aware of any other direct flow through agreements such as MQ to AA have.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:23 pm

Yes I would think such agreement of future position at AA would have value and reduce doubts in minds of pilots. No worry about looking for other positions, or worry about if one will be accepted at alternate employers.

I know in Europe there have been similar practice by some and has been successful by providing staff training arena for larger airline with ready made cadre of future employees.
mercure f-wtcc
 
realsim
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 116):
Seems like this only covers E-175s so, if it passes, what happens to the CR7s? Do they migrate over to PSA as CR2 replacements, leaving PSA as the in house CRJ operator and MQ the EMB operator?

PSA will not need any aditional aircraft to replace their CR2, cause their 30 new CR9 (+40 options) will be enough for that. However, what I've read so far is that Evoy will be an all-Embraer operator, with the E75 and the E145s that the company decides to keep. The rumors are that the CR7 won't stay at Envoy (which I tend to believe, cause in the AIP there's no reference to them, which is really indicative), and that they will transfer them either to PSA, Piedmont or lease them to Air Wisconsin. PSA already operates CR7, so it would be the most logical choice, but Piedmont has 33 DH1 to be replaced and Air Wisconsin 71 CR2s, so 47 CR7s could be just what they need, and they only operate for US Airways Express.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:23 pm

Personally I think there is still lots of changes coming to American Eagle branded flying.

AA is first getting its ducks in order with its inhouse partners, and then can go out an rationalize the contract flying.

Clearly with the 10 carriers currently providing regional service for American and US Airways there will be changes, at the very least shedding more 50-seaters.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
commavia
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 127):
Personally I think there is still lots of changes coming to American Eagle branded flying.

AA is first getting its ducks in order with its inhouse partners, and then can go out an rationalize the contract flying.

Clearly with the 10 carriers currently providing regional service for American and US Airways there will be changes, at the very least shedding more 50-seaters.

  

I think at some point the mainline carriers may reach a point of diminishing marginal returns where the benefit (in the form of lower-cost feed) of bidding multiple regional carriers off against each other is offset somewhat by the cost of managing so many different capacity purchase agreements and relationships, not to mention the risk of (further) product inconsistency.

Given that, I think you're exactly right that this is really only one step in a multi-step process. Step 1 was securing the large RJ feed that AA has so desperately needed for so long, and with the new APA contract and the huge orders having been placed, AA is now (finally) on a viable vector in that regard. Within a few years, AA will essentially be where Delta will be in terms of large RJs, with at least >300 at each. At the same time, all that additional large RJ capacity will allow AA to replace and eliminate lots of 44-/50-seaters, and I think there, too, AA is on a very positive glide slope given the deals struck with Embraer in bankruptcy. The next step will be figuring out how to disposition even more of the small RJs - in many cases the PMUS jets - probably with a mix of capacity reduction and even more large RJs. This next wave of 50-seat rationalization is where, I think, we're likely going to see some of the various regional carrier capacity purchase agreements fall off the table. And then finally, I still contend AA will at some point in the not too distant future have to address the Piedmont DHCs which are extremely old and beginning to attrit out of the fleet, but which serve a strategically vital role. I personally think a large (>50 frame) ATR72 order may make the most sense.
 
justplanenutz
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 127):
AA is first getting its ducks in order with its inhouse partners, and then can go out an rationalize the contract flying.

I believe the Chautauqua contract on 15 E-140s expires this August--so those may be the first to go.
 
silentbob
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 126):
PSA already operates CR7, so it would be the most logical choice, but Piedmont has 33 DH1 to be replaced and Air Wisconsin 71 CR2s, so 47 CR7s could be just what they need, and they only operate for US Airways Express.

It would make no sense at all to give the CR7s to Piedmont. Piedmont would be starting a new type from the ground up, while PSA wouldn't have to overhaul the company in order to bring them on board. PSA or Air Wisconsin (very interesting idea) make a lot more sense as a destination for those aircraft.
 
realsim
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:19 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 130):

It would make no sense at all to give the CR7s to Piedmont. Piedmont would be starting a new type from the ground up, while PSA wouldn't have to overhaul the company in order to bring them on board. PSA or Air Wisconsin (very interesting idea) make a lot more sense as a destination for those aircraft.

That's what I think, they will go either to PSA or Air Wisconsin, but it won't be decided or done before they are able to secure a new contract with Eagle. However, those 47 CR7s are not new orders, so if they are used to replace Air Wisconsin's 70 CR2s, it will mean a net reduction of regional aircraft of almost 30 aircraft.

Quoting commavia (Reply 128):
Within a few years, AA will essentially be where Delta will be in terms of large RJs, with at least >300 at each.

Remember that the MoU with AA and US pilots limits the number of large RJ to 40% of the narrowbody fleet. AA will have something like 510 of these, and US has ~315, so the maximum will be around 330 large RJs (66 - 76 seats, including the large RJs currently flying for US which seat more than this).

PM US Airways:

- 38 E75 Republic
- 20 E70 Republic
- 14 CR7 PSA
- 47 CR9 Mesa

PM American:

- 47 E75 Republic
- 47 CR7 Envoy (not included in the 40% limit, they seat less than 66 pilots)

New American:

- 30 CR9 PSA
- 60 E75 TBD

And we have to remember that Skywest recently ordered 100 E175s, of which 40 will fly for UA and 60 have yet to be determined, with a lot of people believing they will be contracted by AA. In fact, like Envoy's CR7s are not included, the total number of large RJs will be 256, and if we add the 60 ordered by Skywest and not yet contracted, that figure will rise to 316, which is almost the limit with the mainline narrowbody count. If they are actually for AA, the company will now have planned and ordered all the large RJs that they will need and fly for the next few years.

(Note: Until last year AA only had less than 50 large RJs for their huge fleet of 600 mainline aircraft, which was one of their biggest disadvantages against their competitors. However, in just a few years they will have +300, so their ability, not only to better compete in the regional market, but also to look for new cities and routes, will be greatly improved.)

Anyway, back to the topic, if the contract isn't changed, I really doubt that Envoy will operate many more than 60 large RJs for the reasons stated above, unless the 60 Embraers of Skywest aren't for AA.

Regarding the 50 seaters (jets) replacement, there are still +300 flying for AA/US, so, if we substract the large RJ current and predictable orders (30 CR9, 60 E75, another 60 E75, plus ~30 still due for Republic), it means that ~120 aircraft will need to be either retired without replacement either replaced, but with aircraft under 66 seats (like Envoy's CR7s). As there is going to be a big capacity increase when replacing 1 50 seater with 1 large RJ, I am sure lots will be retired without any replacement, but 120 are way too many.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AAG: American Eagle(MQ) Not For Sale

Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:37 pm

I see management has committed to keeping Envoy fleet at a minimum of 170 if the TA is passed.

A bit of a drop from today's 220 or so. Though we all know the ERJ retirements are coming result of the renegotiated BK agreement.

Management promises to keep at least 170 airplanes in fleet
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...least-170-airplanes-in-fleet.html/

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