NL B734 Damaged During Engine Run Up (photos)

Horstroad · Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:15 pm

Found some photos on facebook of Shaheen Air International Boeing 737-4Q8 AP-BJR with substential damage on fuselage and horizontal stabilizer due to an engine run up on loose bricks.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/AME.World/posts/10152248845712798

Does anyone have some more information? When did this happen? Is this damage repairable (economically sensible)?

a318 · Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:24 pm

Why on earth would anybody think its a good idea to do an engine run up on a surface like that?! Wow!

aklrno · Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:33 pm

And after that could someone explain why it is a good idea to pave an airport ramp with those things?

notdownnlocked · Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:57 pm

I've been on this earth now for over 50 years and the only thing I can say is, "ignorance is bliss". Live and learn.

Ideekay · Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:57 pm

These bricks don't have any cement between them.. thats a wrong way to build an apron..

XT6Wagon · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting ideekay (Reply 4):
These bricks don't have any cement between them.. thats a wrong way to build an apron..

Its the wrong way to build anything but a cheap back yard patio.

macc · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:12 pm

omg, LMAO...

i just can imagine the face of the guys when they were done with the run.

N14AZ · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:16 pm

I think I never saw an apron made of bricks. The picture with all the stones on the stabilizer made me laugh.

bennett123 · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:16 pm

Which airport is this please.

Aer Lingus · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:23 pm

Block paving is very common at airports. All over Heathrow and Gatwick. It works fine when its built correctly but if it's not maintained well then that happens.

kgaiflyer · Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 8):
Which airport is this please.

Sialkot international Airport -Pakistan

kraz911 · Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:12 pm

I would have hated to be standing behind this aircraft when the pavers were flying. I snickered at the "stack" job on the horizontal stab! I once saw sheets of asphalt flying during an engine run-up but mechanic standing off the nose contacted the cockpit guys and the power was cut preventing any damage. Hopefully the damage can be repaired rather quickly and no one was hurt but I think it's safe to say high power engine run-ups will be discontinued on this type of surface at this airport at least...Can you imagine if they were running up both engines? Oh the humanity!!!

[Edited 2014-06-19 15:15:23]

BreninTW · Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:53 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
I think I never saw an apron made of bricks.

HKG's apron is brick, not concrete.

Okie · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:21 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 9):
Block paving is very common at airports. All over Heathrow and Gatwick. It works fine when its built correctly but if it's not maintained well then that happens

There is a profound difference between thrust need to taxi and a stationary full power run up.

Some airports have a concrete pad with a blast fence to deflect the air velocity along with the noise created for full power run ups.

Okie

traindoc · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:28 am

Very impressive pictures. But this is the third world, don't forget. Do you want to fly them or other airlines from the non developed world? This is not the only place in which they cut corners!

Tigerguy · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting traindoc (Reply 14):
But this is the third world, don't forget. Do you want to fly them or other airlines from the non developed world? This is not the only place in which they cut corners!

Because "first world" airlines have never cut corners, right?

mastermis · Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
I think I never saw an apron made of bricks

GCM apron is also paving stones just like that. BA's 767 (biggest plane we get) has never had any issues.

TrentXWB · Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:18 am

The horizontal stabilizer with the bricks on top takes the cake. I couldn't control my laughter seeing that.
These bricks do not seem to have any binding material in between or below them. It's asking for disaster if you try to do an engine run up on a surface like that IMHO.

[Edited 2014-06-20 00:20:00]

flyingturtle · Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:56 am

Oh my dearest Gooooood........

David

CrimsonNL · Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:15 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
I think I never saw an apron made of bricks. The picture with all the stones on the stabilizer made me laugh.

At least until recently there was part of the ramp around LHR T1 made of brick. And yeah I had to laugh too at that picture!

Martijn

Aer Lingus · Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:03 am

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 19):
At least until recently there was part of the ramp around LHR T1 made of brick

It's still there. Pier 4A where Aer Lingus use is all block paving. All of Southampton Airport's apron is block paving as is a whole pier at Glasgow.

Block paving is surprisingly capable, cost effective and quick to construct. As I mentioned before if it's not looked after we see exactly what happened there in Pakistan. It is generally not recommended to construct aircraft pavements in blocks where it is subjected to high thrust. Have a look at this link and go to paragraph 3 http://www.sept.org/techpapers/1349.pdf

Part147 · Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:18 am

I bet it was the pesky ground-hugging, minimal-clearance, low-slung, 737 engine that made it much worse!

Stunning pictures that will be a fantastic addition to my Human Factors training materials!

SuperSix2 · Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:23 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 20):
Pier 4A where Aer Lingus use is all block paving

As in Pier E? Never heard of Pier 4A, unless they have re-designated the piers?

oops, my mistake, i somehow thought you were referring to DUB... Sad

[Edited 2014-06-20 03:26:33]

tjwgrr · Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:31 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 20):
It's still there. Pier 4A where Aer Lingus use is all block paving. All of Southampton Airport's apron is block paving as is a whole pier at Glasgow.

Block paving is surprisingly capable, cost effective and quick to construct. As I mentioned before if it's not looked after we see exactly what happened there in Pakistan. It is generally not recommended to construct aircraft pavements in blocks where it is subjected to high thrust. Have a look at this link and go to paragraph 3 http://www.sept.org/techpapers/1349.pdf

But is there mortar holding the blocks together at Glasgow and Southampton?

I just can't imagine using dry-fit patio variety pavers for an airport apron as shown.....

txlbased · Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:32 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
The horizontal stabilizer with the bricks on top takes the cake. I couldn't control my laughter seeing that.

just my words!

Now that´s quite a sight! i never have seen anything like that before!

N14AZ · Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:37 am

Quoting Part147 (Reply 21):
I bet it was the pesky ground-hugging, minimal-clearance, low-slung, 737 engine that made it much worse!

NL should reconsider their fleet planning and evaluate the VFW614. There are still some airframes in museums...

flylku · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 1):
Why on earth would anybody think its a good idea to do an engine run up on a surface like that?!

Why would an airport ever have a surface like that?!

LH526 · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 26):
Why would an airport ever have a surface like that?!

Cheap, fast, easy to repair, good drainage ....

Aer Lingus · Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 23):
But is there mortar holding the blocks together at Glasgow and Southampton?

I just can't imagine using dry-fit patio variety pavers for an airport apron as shown.....

No need for mortar and its exactly like your dry fit patio pavers (albeit with a concrete or sometimes asphalt base underneath). That's the beauty of block paving, simple, quick, cheap and effective. Stability is provided by the bedding sand and then the sand between the blocks. Its extremely effective. Its when the bedding and jointing sand gets washed out and isn't correctly maintained over its lifetime that everything can go belly up. Lowest risk is to have it on stands where jet blast isn't an issue....until you decide to do an engine run. If you build a stand using block paving it can be immediately opened, unlike concrete where you should really wait 28 days.

Chaostheory · Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting Part147 (Reply 21):
I bet it was the pesky ground-hugging, minimal-clearance, low-slung, 737 engine that made it much worse!

Funnily enough, you could be right.

Whilst a different surface, I recall a BA 737 suffered extensive damage after stepping on the brakes and advancing the engines to TO power.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ng%20737-436,%20G-DOCT%2006-07.pdf

DTWPurserBoy · Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:51 pm

There have been enough US carriers that have managed to destroy airplanes on the ground. NW totally wrecked an A319 at LGA some years ago by running it into the jetway They also had a DC-9 lose its brakes and smash into another Airbus which (IIRC) also was written off in MSP.

mjoelnir · Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:01 pm

I would say that there are good reasons to go to a "power box" for engine run ups, or do it on the runway.

dynamo12 · Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:21 pm

This was sort of a very physical wind tunnel test.

We can see where air flowed and bricks accumulated. Seems an expense way to test it though!

Yowks though.

DIJKKIJK · Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:48 pm

I think they are very lucky that the bricks in the front of the engine didn't come off and get sucked it. That repair would have been *very* expensive.

NC1844V · Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:53 pm

Don't see that every day. Just shows the power that these aircraft have, even be it a 734. Could have been a lot worse.

Western727 · Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 25):
evaluate the VFW614. There are still some airframes in museums...

goosebayguy · Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:46 pm

I'm a little confused. Surely someone was on the long lead directing the ground run? This looks as though that didn't happen. Or the guy was looking elsewhere for half an hour.

DIJKKIJK · Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 10):
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 8):
Which airport is this please.

Sialkot international Airport -Pakistan

Which probably explains the cobbled tarmac. I don't think that airport gets much jet traffic.

737tdi · Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 36):
I'm a little confused. Surely someone was on the long lead directing the ground run? This looks as though that didn't happen. Or the guy was looking elsewhere for half an hour.

It is quite rare that we would have a mech. on a headset. When doing trim runs on the CFM56-3 we have a run truck go with us to the run pad but they are only there to pull the part power pins and if the engine/m.e.c. requires adjustment. On the CFM56-7 we go alone since there are no adjustments to be made, it either works or it doesn't. Now when we had the JT8s we always had to trim them and did have a mech. on a headset.

Planesmart · Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:37 pm

Perhaps it was my backyard. I can see weedmatting under the bricks.

Will be interesting to see how many battle scars the plane still carries after being cleared again for commercial flight.

saam123 · Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:27 am

A couple of decades ago there was a British Harrier that did a demo at an airshow held at a post-WWII Dutch airbase in Germany. It turns out you can't hover over pavers either. The jet blast dug up the pavers and sent them flying in all directions

n729pa · Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:52 pm

this made me laugh today, thanks for digging it back out. as someone said at the time, it begs several questions to start with, but the look on the engineers/pilots faces must have been a picture. I dread to think of the noise this would have made!

focin123 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:46 am

Any further update regarding this incidence?

UA444 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:28 am

Not that bad of damage and can be repaired

garpd · Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:58 am

focin123 wrote:
Any further update regarding this incidence?

From what I remember, the aircraft was repaired an put back in service. Engine run ups banned on non concrete aprons at that airport.

bennett123 · Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:47 am

Planepictures shows it at Dubai and apparently in service in November 2014.

oldannyboy · Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:18 pm

traindoc wrote:
Very impressive pictures. But this is the third world, don't forget. Do you want to fly them or other airlines from the non developed world? This is not the only place in which they cut corners!

There are a thing or three to be said about cutting-corners in aviation and "first world" Nations my friend... perhaps you should revisit your entire notion of first vs third, and developed vs undeveloped, especially in aviation. Travelling might also be helpful actually.You would be amazed at the high level of proficiency and professionalism of those who work in aviation in many 'exotic' locations.

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