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MD80
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Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:02 am

I´ve read on another forum related to the MD-80, that Delta Air Lines "decided to install the Super 98 mod on the MD88/90 fleet starting January, 2015."

I don´t have additional information but I think, it´s worth starting a thread here.

Here is the website about the "Super98":

http://www.super98.com/index.htm

Thank you for any updates regarding the Super98 in connection with the MD-88s!
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
wjcandee
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:23 am

Maybe. Maybe not.

These guys haven't updated their incredibly-amateurish web site in three-and-a-half years. I would think that if they had a contract from Delta, or any movement or interest from anyone, they would at least hint at it.

Are there even photos with any actual modified aircraft out there?

Their marketing looks like something that a computer geek put together in his home office while waiting for the phone to ring. Certainly, the prose wasn't written by a professional. At least not a competent one. That said, major airlines don't go to a.net or the web when evaluating engineering modifications.

Still...call me curious, and a little bit dubious.
 
DeltaMD95
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:32 am

If true, this would be incredible! In my opinion, a fleetwide Super 98 modification would be an even bigger upgrade then the proposed IS&S flight deck mod would have been. Could it be that between the refinery and the sub $80 per barrel oil prices, that Delta are going all in with the MDs? Maybe the IS&S funds will be applied towards the Super 98...   

I'm hopeful, but cautiously optimistic at best. Until something official or at least an insider leak, there's reason to be skeptical. Fingers crossed.  
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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exFWAOONW
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:40 pm

I wouldn't buy an aircraft mod based on their website skills. Quite the contrary, actually.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:46 pm

Take this as you will, but I find it interesting that Robert Hesselgesser is an oncologist and he and his son are the top two executives of this company, but have no aviation background. However, the four gentlemen under them do and seem to have impressive backgrounds. The mod seems to be good ideas, just too late to market in my opinion.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Assuming this actually does happen (and I have serious doubts) would they be MD-98s?
 
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litz
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:24 pm

I would think that if they have successfully achieved a type certificate for these mods, a quick check with the FAA would determine the details, and if that is indeed the case.
 
Rbgso
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:42 pm

A 1% fuel burn improvement on the DC-9? Time to bring those beauties out of storage.. 
 
txlbased
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:39 pm

Sorry, but i don't think it will happen. This page is nearly 3,5 years without any update. Still it would be interesting to know how much a conversion costs for the '80 or "-9". As far as I understand there Is no modified "98" out there.
You have your office cubicle. I have mine - it roars!
 
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MD80
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:06 pm

Thanks for all your contributions and views. I am also skeptical...but hey, let´s wait and see. Sometimes there is a grain of truth behind a rumor and as far as I can say, my limited source is a reliable one (no stupid spreading of a rumor).

Thank you and let´s watch any potential news regarding this topic.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
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gdg9
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:53 pm

3.5% fuel improvement on MD-80s?

IF the program was available, would depend on how long Delta plans on keeping their MD fleet. I find Delta's fleet utilization very interesting, and it seems to work for them. Paid off planes that burn more fuel still cost less than a brand new plane that burns less.

It's hard to think here in DFW, but perhaps in a few years the only MD-80s we will see will be wearing Delta paint!
@dfwtower
 
thebyte
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:01 pm

3.5% fuel savings for MD-80's, and is already certified and ready to be sold. But if you look at the Fuel Savings Summary, they also have charts for MD-90 and 717. It says the MD90 drag reduction kit will reduce fuel burn by 6%, and 717 fuel burn by 4%.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 1):
incredibly-amateurish web site
Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 3):
I wouldn't buy an aircraft mod based on their website skills.

Greetings from INSIDE the airline industry, where, as far as websites go, this one is certainly not the most amateurish I've seen. I've seen far worse, from companies that are actively selling product. It could stand a bit of modernization, yeah, but it's not THAT bad.

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):
Robert Hesselgesser is an oncologist and he and his son are the top two executives of this company, but have no aviation background.

That explains where the cash is coming from. Programs like this require a stupid amount of cash, lawyers, insurance, etc etc etc, because of the nature of society we live in, AND the nature of the FAA. Fees, fees, and more fees.

I hope that Delta HAS ordered this STC. Good for these guys.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:29 am

Quoting thebyte (Reply 11):
It says the MD90 drag reduction kit will reduce fuel burn by 6%, and 717 fuel burn by 4%.

Is it just me or does that sound like a REALLY good investment for Delta if this turns out to be true? That's a lot of savings over the 88/90/717 fleets.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
DeltaMD95
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:29 am

Considering the Douglas roots of the Super 98 leadership team, (including VP Engineering), one has to wonder if McDD had given them more funding, may these improvements been offered/implemented into the design 20 years ago?

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 3):

I wouldn't buy an aircraft mod based on their website skills. Quite the contrary, actually.

Well, when you factor in that they pretty much only have one potential client (DELTA), I can see why investing into a state-of-the-art website is probably not a top priority.

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):
However, the four gentlemen under them do and seem to have impressive backgrounds.

Three high-level Douglas folks adds some credibility in my eyes.

Quoting thebyte (Reply 11):
It says the MD90 drag reduction kit will reduce fuel burn by 6%

Impressive, if true. Can you say MD90 transcon?  
Quoting MD80 (Reply 9):
Sometimes there is a grain of truth behind a rumor and as far as I can say, my limited source is a reliable one (no stupid spreading of a rumor).

Thank you and let´s watch any potential news regarding this topic.

You sure have got the connections, my friend. Here's hoping to some grain of truth as well. Keep us posted!

Quoting txlbased (Reply 8):
This page is nearly 3,5 years without any update.

This is my biggest concern. FWIW, I emailed them about a year ago just to see if the product was still being offered. I got a written response within 12 hours with a detailed PDF on the upgrades and confirmation that the program was still alive.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
That explains where the cash is coming from.

   I agree.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
I hope that Delta HAS ordered this STC. Good for these guys.

It would be a feel good story if they somehow manage to pull it off.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
Alnicocunife
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:40 am

It will happen if the numbers look good. The MOD can be done in overnight visits in almost any station.

ROI in 18 months per plane?
 
n797mx
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:41 am

Reading over the Phase I configuration it says "Low Drag Spoilers"

...wait, isn't that an oxymoron?
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:51 am

A 3,5% fuel burn reduction on an MD-80 is a lot.. it would amount to roughly the same as a 5% reduction on a similar sized A320 when counting lbs/kg of fuel saved.

From the website:

"The Super98 flight tests demonstrated that cruise drag reduction, which for the MD-80 equally reduces fuel burn, is more than 3.5%. This translates to significant economic benefit. For example, an MD-80 typical mission of 750 nm with a conservative utilization rate of 1682 trips per year will save an operator approximately $330,000 per airplane with fuel costs at $3/gal. An additional benefit is the reduction of the greenhouse gas CO2 by over 1500 tons per aircraft annually.

Super98 estimates that an operator, who flies the mission and frequency defined above, will recover the investment of the Phase I Drag Reduction Kit in approximately 14 months. In addition, an opinion generated by AVITAS - a leading aircraft appraisal and valuation firm - stated that an MD-80 fitted with the Super98 Phase I Kit will see a direct increase in residual value."

$330,000 in savings per year which would be recovered in 14 months.. that means the Phase I Drag Reduction kit and installation costs less than $400,000.
 
txlbased
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:36 am

maybe they will have an even better chance if they convert a MD80 e.g. and proof their promised advancement?
You have your office cubicle. I have mine - it roars!
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:11 am

Quoting txlbased (Reply 18):
maybe they will have an even better chance if they convert a MD80 e.g. and proof their promised advancement?

They've already done that with an MD-83, and it's proven a drag reduction of more than 3,5% during multiple test flights.
 
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mayor
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:23 pm

I would think, that if this is true, someone would have heard it before now, considering that it's only about a month and a half before the mods begin. Doesn't seem like much lead time, to me.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting DeltaMD95 (Reply 14):

Well, when you factor in that they pretty much only have one potential client (DELTA), I can see why investing into a state-of-the-art website is probably not a top priority.

And maybe HA with their 717s and carriers in Africa and South America who might still have some of these.

Quoting DeltaMD95 (Reply 14):
This is my biggest concern. FWIW, I emailed them about a year ago just to see if the product was still being offered. I got a written response within 12 hours with a detailed PDF on the upgrades and confirmation that the program was still alive.

Can you show us some of the aerodynamic improvements? I'm curious to see what they've done.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting n797mx (Reply 16):
Reading over the Phase I configuration it says "Low Drag Spoilers"

...wait, isn't that an oxymoron?

Well of course Spoilers cause drag, but in this case they mean when flying in clean configuration, they redesigned the carriers and parts so that minimal aero drag will occur in the UP position.

I wonder what would happen if someone puts a small winglet or sharklet, improvements to the engines and a nice cockpit upgrade (fadec etc) and realize a 8 to 10% fuel improvement.... would someone like DL convert their huge fleet and keep Anet awash with threads of "When will DL retire its MadDOGS" till the next century !!!

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
And maybe HA with their 717s

This mod would serve no useful purpose for Hawaiian Airlines. Their stage lengths are just too short to save any fuel.   

[Edited 2014-11-12 13:09:46]
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 23):
This mod would serve no useful purpose for Hawaiian Airlines. Their stage lengths are just too short to save any fuel.

That depends on the nature of the mods. If the mods improve aerodynamics at lower speeds and lower altitudes (where the air is thicker) then they might be worth it. If most of the improvement has to do with shockwave management, then probably not.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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MD80
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:27 am

Quoting txlbased (Reply 18):
maybe they will have an even better chance if they convert a MD80 e.g. and proof their promised advancement?

Ironically, there were separate reports about an "MD-80 Advanced" in the 1990s but nothing happened.   
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:55 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 22):

Add the winglets

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Photo © Stewart Andrew



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MD80
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RE: Super98 Mod For Delta MD-88s?

Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:00 pm

How many operators installed this feature? I can only remember Jetran Air.
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