Well this will be interesting. According to the affidavit he conspired to smuggle guns with a former employee in the cabin of a fight from ATL to JFK. I'm sure there will be some dramatic overreaction by the TSA involving sterile access by employees.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...firearms-plan/njYkm/#__federated=1

The title of the post says "flights". Is he suspected of doing it on more than just this one?

I was watching it on WSB 2 earlier this evening. Apparently they sold quite a few firearms to an undercover officer in NY. I think there was at least one other flight.

Quoting mayor (Reply 1): The title of the post says "flights". Is he suspected of doing it on more than just this one?

20 flights between ATL and JFK. This shows glaring holes in ATL security. Also projects the theory that TSA is just window-dressing

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3): 20 flights between ATL and JFK. This shows glaring holes in ATL security. Also projects the theory that TSA is just window-dressing

Could have been done at any airport and while I'm no defender of the TSA, how are they to blame in this? They were by-passed completely. I hate to think what will happen with employees if they're going to be required to be screened whenever they come to work. What a nightmare that would be.

Why on Earth would that person even consider smuggling a gun? SMH.

Quoting mayor (Reply 4): I'm no defender of the TSA, how are they to blame in this?

I didn't blame them....just pointing out that all this TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF, NO WATER BOTTLES stuff is useless if there are glaring holes further within.

Quoting mayor (Reply 4): Could have been done at any airport

They also brought up the fact that ATL was where a pax got lost coming into the airport and wound up in the employee parking lot. She had on a sun dress and had a suitcase. She boarded an employee bus and was let off on the tarmac.

ATL also is the place where certain photographers use their badges to enter secure areas they shouldn't be...just to take pics.

Quoting Miami (Reply 5): Why on Earth would that person even consider smuggling a gun? SMH.

I would assume that the guns in question were illegal fully automatic AR-15s and AK-47s. To smuggle legal semi auto versions within the USA would be pointless. Those guns aren't legal in NYC, but it wouldn't be difficult to buy them in Pennsylvania or another neighboring state and drive them in, with little chance of being caught. If the guns were legal you could just check them as baggage. I've traveled with my AK before.

Not sure but I would assume these were unregistered. Hard to come by but worth lots more to the bad guys

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6): Quoting mayor (Reply 4): Could have been done at any airport They also brought up the fact that ATL was where a pax got lost coming into the airport and wound up in the employee parking lot. She had on a sun dress and had a suitcase. She boarded an employee bus and was let off on the tarmac. ATL also is the place where certain photographers use their badges to enter secure areas they shouldn't be...just to take pics.

I'll give you an example of how it could happen, anywhere...........back in '91, I was at TLV for the PA transition. On one morning, our flight was all set to leave........I was standing at the top of the steps when, suddenly, we all saw a man coming across the ramp, from the terminal, with a baggage cart and his bags. TLV security drove up, stopped him, interrogated him and let him board the flight. He had missed the bus and just walked out the door and across the ramp. Now, we're always hearing about how TLV is so secure, but there is one instance where it wasn't.

It can happen almost every day at almost any airport. Just because you don't see it in the media doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Quoting catiii (Thread starter): I'm sure there will be some dramatic overreaction by the TSA involving sterile access by employees.

In your opinion, what would be the appropriate reaction to airline employees smuggling guns?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7): I would assume that the guns in question were illegal fully automatic AR-15s and AK-47s.

Anybody who has an illegal NFA weapon isn't dumb enough to smuggle it on the plane. My guess it was stuff that NY has ruled "illegal" and was just sent up to be sold at a profit illegally.

-DiamondFlyer

Similar incident happened at MCO a few years back. Comair employee with money and guns. Result...MCO has 100% employee screening for Sterile Area.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 12): .MCO has 100% employee screening for Sterile Area.

So I guess mechanics will have to "smuggle" their screwdrivers and other sharp tools into work.

The AP is reporting that the employee has been fired by Delta. It absolutely boggles my mind the stupidity of people, and I'm talking about the gun smugglers, not anybody here.

Not 100% TSA screening...unless flying..... Employees have a less stringent screening by a private screening company. They do have allowances for "Job" related items and look specifically for weapons and "unapproved" items

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 13): So I guess mechanics will have to "smuggle" their screwdrivers and other sharp tools into work.

I don't know about airline mechanics, but automobile mechanics do not carry their tools to work. A professional mechanic has WAY more tools than would be practical to carry back and forth to work. Mechanics take their tools to work and leave them there, until they no longer work in that facility.

The real issue here is that it reflects so badly on DL and their decent employees. Why smuggle these weapons on an airplane? Toss them in the trunk of a car and drive north. You have whole lot less chance of getting stopped on I-85 or I-95 unless you are speeding.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 16): I don't know about airline mechanics, but automobile mechanics do not carry their tools to work. A professional mechanic has WAY more tools than would be practical to carry back and forth to work. Mechanics take their tools to work and leave them there, until they no longer work in that facility.

True, but most mechanics carry a Leatherman tool on their belt (which would have to be left at work). Replacement tools would also need to make it through security.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 13): So I guess mechanics will have to "smuggle" their screwdrivers and other sharp tools into work.

Or leave them at work, on the sterile side, all nice and locked up.

Quoting Prost (Reply 14): The AP is reporting that the employee has been fired by Delta. It absolutely boggles my mind the stupidity of people, and I'm talking about the gun smugglers, not anybody here.

And his DL ID and SIDA badge has been turned over to the investigating authorities.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 10): In your opinion, what would be the appropriate reaction to airline employees smuggling guns?

Well, I would hope it wasn't like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

This is very disturbing and likely to call for stricter security checks for MX, baggage handlers and ramper staff in a number of airports across the USA.
The very strict laws on handguns in New York, New Jersey, DC and some New England states means a high demand for handguns for persons who cannot get them under those laws or to purchase for resale to others locally. One has to wonder if at airports at both ends, there are security staff and other staff in secure areas that are part of criminal street gangs, a major buyer of illegal guns, who may be behind this smuggling scheme.
There is also the $$$'s from the resale, or assisting in the movement of the guns that some MX, bag handlers and rampers need for survival or to supplement flat or declining pay, gambling debt, drug habits and so on thus their involvement in such criminal schemes.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20): There is also the $$$'s from the resale, or assisting in the movement of the guns that some MX, bag handlers and rampers need for survival or to supplement flat or declining pay, gambling debt, drug habits and so on thus their involvement in such criminal schemes.

Kind of stupid to throw your job away at DL, in light of increasing pay and profit sharing (assuming he was fulltime).

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 18): True, but most mechanics carry a Leatherman tool on their belt (which would have to be left at work).

I don't see a problem with letting a mechanic carry a Leatherman through security.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 18): Replacement tools would also need to make it through security.

We don't allow liquids through security, but you can buy plenty of them beyond security, so they have to get there somehow. Same deal.

-Mir

I suspect that the liquids sold airside have been screened.

Also, you would need staff collusion.

Quoting mayor (Reply 19): In your opinion, what would be the appropriate reaction to airline employees smuggling guns? Well, I would hope it wasn't like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

He violated numerous federal and state laws not to mention company policies. Termination is warranted and legal prosecution to follow.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 24): He violated numerous federal and state laws not to mention company policies. Termination is warranted and legal prosecution to follow.

I don't believe I was referring to what should happen to him, but what would be the reaction of the gov't in general to this incident. Will they require full screening of employees? Will DL terminate the use of buddy passes?

I would like to be first in line to dole out punishment. A meat cleaver to the wrists sounds like fun way to start considering the trouble he is about causing us all.

Quoting Prost (Reply 14): It absolutely boggles my mind the stupidity of people, and I'm talking about the gun smugglers

When human greed is involved nothing should come as a surprise. This guy was likely paid a sum of money that makes his DL paycheck a fractional part of his income. Greed has caused wars, and is one of the most unattractive of human traits, it will certainly drag the stupid out of many.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 17):

That's what I don't understand. Why fly with all the associated risks? Much safer driving and the distance isn't that far.

Quoting DDR (Reply 28): Much safer driving and the distance isn't that far.

From ATL to JFK, it's 2 1/2 hours by air, 14+ hours by car - you could make several flights in the time it takes to drive.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 29): From ATL to JFK, it's 2 1/2 hours by air, 14+ hours by car - you could make several flights in the time it takes to drive.

He convinced someone that it could be done with very little hassle. And he was right for at least 4 other flights from May til now.

The news said that he was flying by using his mother's retiree benefits. I wonder if she will lose these flight benefits now.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 29): From ATL to JFK, it's 2 1/2 hours by air, 14+ hours by car - you could make several flights in the time it takes to drive.

If you wanted to make money selling legal guns illegally in New York you could just find somebody in Pennsylvania to do it. Of course these guys probably didn't know anyone there. Who knows; there may have been some sort of gang connection going on with this deal. I am sure there were others involved. You don't just start this kind of thing and hope to have customers; you start because you have buyers ready.

Quoting DDR (Reply 31): The news said that he was flying by using his mother's retiree benefits

He was a DL employee......why should he use his mother's benefits. I wonder if this actually refers to his partner, who was ex-DL?

Quoting DDR (Reply 31):

Yes. Per policy (any airline) if your flight benefits are used for fraudulent or illegal activities your flight benefits are subject to be revoked. This would certainly qualify. However, if the retiree clearly knew nothing about her son's activities they might give her a pass.

Quoting mayor (Reply 25): Will they require full screening of employees? Will DL terminate the use of buddy passes?

Buddy passes are routinely abused. Employees have been caught selling then on eBay, they made it a real business in MNL with its own office downtown and Africa is a nightmare of passes sold for profit. The last time I checked there was an embargo on buddy passes to or from any African destination.

DL does not generally use the "catholic school" type of mentality by punishing everyone if one person is guilty. The current employee will say fired, the ex-employee (what do you want to bet he is an ex from having been terminated himself) and his mother's retiree passes are at risk. DL will do a full internal investigation. I would find it odd that this guy was young enough to still qualify to use them. I tend to believe this was an error in the press.

Flight crew members are screened every time they enter a sterile area. You have to have a SIDA pass to gain entry to the tarmac and that includes (for ALL employees) a ten year background check by the FBI and fingerprinting.

Over the past 40 years I have seen many scams--most not terribly original--to use the job as a means to another end. Drug smuggling, arms smuggling, fraudulent use of travel benefits--but in the end they all get caught. There is an old story that took place back in the eary 90's when DL bought some former EA L-1011's that had been parked in the desert for several years. They were flown to ATL for a heavy check and when they took down cabin and cargo bay side panels packages of drugs fell out. They had been sitting there all that time and the "owners" were unable to retrieve them before EA shut down and ferried the airplanes out to the desert.

Every major company as a few idiots out there that think they can beat the system. The might get away with it for a while but eventually they get caught.

What is going to be ugly is TSA backlash against the good employees that will suffer for the behavior of one or two.

Quoting DDR (Reply 28):

Agreed. Too risky by plane, too many people involved. One can travel by bus with almost no risk. Car is somewhat riskier, you could get pulled over for some other reason.

10 year background checks are required to obtain a SIDA badge. So why, in the report linked, was a photo of the DL employee shown as "a mug shot from a previous arrest"?

Absolutely inexcusable.

PSA 1771 on December 7, 1987 was brought to the ground by disgruntled employee David Burke who used his credentials to bypass security with a gun, murder the pilots mid-flight, and kill 42 innocent people. The response to this by the FAA? Require FLIGHT CREWS to go through screening! Unbelievable.

Meanwhile the "trusted employees " continue to produce news articles like this.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 35): Buddy passes are routinely abused. Employees have been caught selling then on eBay, they made it a real business in MNL with its own office downtown and Africa is a nightmare of passes sold for profit. The last time I checked there was an embargo on buddy passes to or from any African destination.

All this, in addition to the latest abuse by the employee in ATL, might be the straw that breaks the camel's back, as it were. DL will weigh the revenue they receive from buddy passes against the headaches they can cause (or do cause). I agree that DL usually doesn't use those tactics, but I wonder how this might affect security, especially as its applied to employees?

There was something posted on the DL or UA employees union FB page (before this incident was publicized) with a copy of a letter from HR saying they were tightening the rules for the buddy passes, and that the employee now had to travel with the buddy for the pass to be valid

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 39):

UA

Quoting catiii (Thread starter): I'm sure there will be some dramatic overreaction by the TSA involving sterile access by employees.

Doubt it. It didn't happen the last time someone smuggled drugs or guns through a side door.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3): Also projects the theory that TSA is just window-dressing

It IS just window dressing.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 23): I suspect that the liquids sold airside have been screened.

I can assure you they have not.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 37): 10 year background checks are required to obtain a SIDA badge. So why, in the report linked, was a photo of the DL employee shown as "a mug shot from a previous arrest"?

Arrest =/= conviction. Also, there are only about 30 crimes that would disqualify you from getting a SIDA badge. Most have to do with terrorism (no surprise there), and of course the usual (murder, attempted murder, etc..) and hijacking.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 41): I can assure you they have not.

They were at SLC. The access road for vendors was right in front of our cargo building. The vendor had to stop, get out and use the phone right there to call for security. Security would come over, open up the vehicle and scrutinize what they were bringing in.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 41): Arrest =/= conviction. Also, there are only about 30 crimes that would disqualify you from getting a SIDA badge. Most have to do with terrorism (no surprise there), and of course the usual (murder, attempted murder, etc..) and hijacking.

I don't have concrete proof of this, but I would imagine that any conviction for ANY felony would be enough to keep you from getting a SIDA badge.

Quoting mayor (Reply 42): Security would come over, open up the vehicle and scrutinize what they were bringing in.

Vehicles do get searched, this is true.

In the interest of playing safe, I think we should stop right there  

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43): Vehicles do get searched, this is true. In the interest of playing safe, I think we should stop right there

Don't worry.......I don't think I've said anything that anyone doesn't already know.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 37): 10 year background checks are required to obtain a SIDA badge. So why, in the report linked, was a photo of the DL employee shown as "a mug shot from a previous arrest"?

As mentioned above, not every mugshot is for a disqualifying offense. For example, I would take a mugshot of someone arrested for disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor, and not a disqualifying SIDA offense.