Delta's Longest MD-88 Route

united319 · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Hello All,

Just wondering if anybody could tell me what currently is the longest route flown by a DL MD-88. IIRC up until a year or so a go they were flying them at non-peak times to DEN and PHX. The only 2+ hour flights on those that I can think would be NYC/BOS to Florida. The front runner that I know of is BOS-MCO which is blocked at 3h33m and is 1,121 miles. Anybody know of any other routes than up and down the east coast that are longer DL MD-88 routes?

Thanks for the help!

maddogjt8d · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:04 pm

DL used to fly overwater equipped MD-88's on the ATL-PUJ route which I think was around 1500 miles and 3.5 hours. Flew them both ways for my honeymoon 2 years ago.

tommy767 · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:08 pm

ATL-CUN comes to mind.

There was a thread here about 6-7 years ago about how DL flew an M88 on ATL-LAX. Some thought it was a flightaware glitch, but turns out they actually did it as a one time thing nonstop.

united319 · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 2):

ATL-CUN comes to mind.

There was a thread here about 6-7 years ago about how DL flew an M88 on ATL-LAX. Some thought it was a flightaware glitch, but turns out they actually did it as a one time thing nonstop.

I remember also when they repo'd a CR9 as a live flight MSP-LAX and everyone on here was shocked or thought it was a glitch. Now a days, leave it to UA to actually fly a CR7 MSP-LAX nonstop roundtrip. I love UAL but some of these RJ routes are insane. Now we're going to see longer ones with the new E175's on the market which are much nicer than any CRJ-700 (next jen or not). But still it seems if they had the opportunity to fly almost every domestic route with an Express carrier they would...

Anyway, I led us off topic to my original question lol. Sorry!

FoxBravo · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:22 pm

The current timetable shows MD-88's on certain MSP-MIA (1,504 mi), MSP-RSW (1,420 mi) and MSP-TPA (1,309 mi) flights.

tommy767 · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:24 pm

Actually just realized that at one point or another DL has flown the M88 on ATL-ABQ and IIRC, ATL-TUS.

Quoting united319 (Reply 3):
I love UAL but some of these RJ routes are insane

Yeah I can't justify some of the routes that they fly on ERJ. Having single class RJ's dominate major hub(s) is not a winning strategy.

Osubuckeyes · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting united319 (Thread starter):
IIRC up until a year or so a go they were flying them at non-peak times to DEN and PHX

DL hasn't flown the MD-88 into PHX in quite some time. Only the MD-90.

catiii · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 5):
Yeah I can't justify some of the routes that they fly on ERJ. Having single class RJ's dominate major hub(s) is not a winning strategy.

Which is why they are going away from the -145s in favor of the -175s

steex · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:37 pm

I believe DL's weekly ATL-STX service is operated by the M88, that clocks in at 1,638 miles and blocks at something like 4:25 westbound (obviously flying time is a bit less). I know they have scheduled MSP-SMF on the M88 as well, which is 1,517 miles.

tommy767 · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 8):

Interesting -- seem both routes are flown by 320s

FoxBravo · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 8):
I believe DL's weekly ATL-STX service is operated by the M88, that clocks in at 1,638 miles

I think we may have a winner!

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 9):
Interesting -- seem both routes are flown by 320s

They use both to STX, but I see an MD-88 scheduled for this coming Saturday (10 Jan).

steex · Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 9):
Interesting -- seem both routes are flown by 320s

ATL-STX switches to an M88 this Saturday and remains an M88 for the 1x weekly service at least into June.

There doesn't appear to be an M88 on MSP-SMF right now, but the RON at SMF (DL 2371 WB, DL 1745 EB) is shown on the schedule as an M88 for the month of May. Of course, as with any Delta schedule that far out, reality remains to be seen.

brooklynchris13 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:24 am

Not the longest but up there, DL's seasonal Saturday service from CMH to CUN shows an MD88, 1332 Miles and a block time of 3:45.

29erUSA187 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:29 am

MSP-SAN has to be up there, although its a mix of MD-88's and MD-93's

Scooter · Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:07 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 13):
MSP-SAN has to be up there, although its a mix of MD-88's and MD-93's

Are they really flying MD-88's between MSP and SAN? I thought they only flew the MD-90's out here.

e38 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:34 am

I have to agree with the question posed by Scooter above (Reply 14) regarding Delta MD-88 operations between Minneapolis and San Diego (and also Sacramento, Phoenix, and any other destination in the western United States).

It is my understanding that due to performance/payload limitations, Delta does not schedule MD-88 aircraft to Denver or any destination west of the Rocky Mountains. They may have done so in the past, but not anymore. MD-90 aircraft-yes; but not the MD-88.

e38

KingAir200 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting steex (Reply 11):
ATL-STX switches to an M88 this Saturday and remains an M88 for the 1x weekly service at least into June.

As far as I know, this is the longest 88 route in the system.

Quoting Scooter (Reply 14):
Are they really flying MD-88's between MSP and SAN? I thought they only flew the MD-90's out here.

No. No 88s in SAN.

Quoting e38 (Reply 15):
It is my understanding that due to performance/payload limitations, Delta does not schedule MD-88 aircraft to Denver or any destination west of the Rocky Mountains.

That's pretty much the size of it. Between higher airport elevations, longer stage lengths, and driftdown considerations, the 88 is just a better east of the Rockies airplane. It can do and has done DEN-MSP/CVG/DTW/ATL from time to time in the not so distant past.

[Edited 2015-01-05 20:00:31]

upsmd11 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:32 pm

I know the MD88 does go into ELP and ABQ on some of the schedules.

ABQ is 1269 and ELP is 1282.

I've also flown the MD88 ATL - GDL at 1469.

pliersinsight · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:59 pm

I think we can all agree that it is better to be on a MD88 than a CRJ or E-Jet, assuming of course you aren't in the last ten rows of the MD88 without ear plugs. I few on a Delta MD88 about two months ago in the low 20s rows and I thought they had left the door open during taxi it was so loud.

burnsie28 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:11 pm

While not the longest, just to add it in there ATL-MTJ is 1,347 miles.

steex · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:17 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 15):

I have to agree with the question posed by Scooter above (Reply 14) regarding Delta MD-88 operations between Minneapolis and San Diego (and also Sacramento, Phoenix, and any other destination in the western United States).

Generally speaking, this is correct, but go look at Delta's schedule on MSP-SMF for any day in May 2015 and you will see an M88 on the schedule. It's entirely possible (if not likely) that it will be swapped for something else in the coming months (a fair bet for most any Delta route), but it is indeed on the schedule.

The777Man · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:34 pm

They used to fly them ATL-ONT but that's a while back.

The777Man

United_fan · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:36 pm

I took one MIA-JFK a couple years ago . First and last time I was ever in the Pan Am terminal @ JFK.

stxbohn · Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 8):
I believe DL's weekly ATL-STX service is operated by the M88, that clocks in at 1,638 miles and blocks at something like 4:25 westbound (obviously flying time is a bit less).

Sweet, they're still flying to STX. I recall ATL-STX having been up to 3x weekly back 4ish years ago. And saw several CRJ7s flying out back then... Now that would be a long miserable flight.

laca773 · Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting steex (Reply 11):
There doesn't appear to be an M88 on MSP-SMF right now, but the RON at SMF (DL 2371 WB, DL 1745 EB) is shown on the schedule as an M88 for the month of May. Of course, as with any Delta schedule that far out, reality remains to be seen.

Could this just be a standard a/c they use to hold a particular flight schedule ? I believe routes such as SMF/SJC/SAN-MCO are normally flown with M90/320s now for the most part. Actually, M90s since they have transitioned M90s from SLC to MSP and the A320s to SLC from MSP a while back.

milesrich · Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:47 am

Quoting e38 (Reply 15):
It is my understanding that due to performance/payload limitations, Delta does not schedule MD-88 aircraft to Denver or any destination west of the Rocky Mountains. They may have done so in the past, but not anymore. MD-90 aircraft-yes; but not the MD-88.

While Delta never flew the MD-88 in and out of SLC, the majority of ATL-DEN flights were scheduled with the MD-88 at one time. I always found this strange since SLC is almost 1000 feet lower in elevation than DEN. When I asked why DEN and not SLC, a Delta captain told me it was due to the close proximity of the Wasatch Range to SLC where the Rockies don't begin until about 30 miles west of DEN.

With fuel dropping, the cost of the MD-88 on longer flights is not as much higher as the MD-90, 737-800, or A-320. On shorter flights, the differential is even less.

adamspotter · Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 22):
I took one MIA-JFK a couple years ago . First and last time I was ever in the Pan Am terminal @ JFK.

They actually still fly the MD-88 on this route. Am scheduled to fly JFK-MIA in March

steex · Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 24):
Could this just be a standard a/c they use to hold a particular flight schedule ? I believe routes such as SMF/SJC/SAN-MCO are normally flown with M90/320s now for the most part.

That could be the case, but you also wouldn't expect they'd hold a schedule with an aircraft they deem entirely incapable of operating the route.

jbmitt · Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 21):
They used to fly them ATL-ONT but that's a while back.

Are we sure on that? Great Circle Mapper lists that as 1900 miles.

I know that there have been one off flights LAX to ATL, but I haven't seen regularly scheduled westbound flights like that.

The777Man · Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:52 am

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 28):
Quoting The777Man (Reply 21):
They used to fly them ATL-ONT but that's a while back.

Are we sure on that? Great Circle Mapper lists that as 1900 miles.

I know that there have been one off flights LAX to ATL, but I haven't seen regularly scheduled westbound flights like that.

I remember seeing that in the schedules that was around 1997 or so. Not sure if they had any weight restrictions. The ones from LAX were diversions from ONT......; no scheduled MD-88s to LAX by DL.

The777Man

northwestEWR · Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting milesrich (Reply 25):
I always found this strange since SLC is almost 1000 feet lower in elevation than DEN. When I asked why DEN and not SLC, a Delta captain told me it was due to the close proximity of the Wasatch Range to SLC where the Rockies don't begin until about 30 miles west of DEN.

Correct. The engine-out climb performance would result in huge weight restrictions. It would be real ugly. The MD90 has less issues in SLC due to it's increased engine thrust and performance in hot/high conditions.

[Edited 2015-01-07 19:28:53]

e38 · Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:55 am

steex, with reference to your comment in Reply 27, "you also wouldn't expect they'd hold a schedule with an aircraft they deem entirely incapable of operating the route. "

That's a little extreme. The MD-88 is not an aircraft that is "incapable of operating" to West Coast and/or mountainous destinations. It can be done, but it is probably not the "optimum" aircraft to use since it would probably require substantial weight/performance penalties to do so safely and IAW FAR requirements.

e38

TheRedBaron · Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:14 am

One thing is sure Delta must be laughing all the way to the bank seeing the oil price going so low, and keeping the old Mad Dogs... Long or short routes, they are making a ship load of $$$$$.

TRB

steex · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting e38 (Reply 31):

steex, with reference to your comment in Reply 27, "you also wouldn't expect they'd hold a schedule with an aircraft they deem entirely incapable of operating the route. "

That's a little extreme. The MD-88 is not an aircraft that is "incapable of operating" to West Coast and/or mountainous destinations. It can be done, but it is probably not the "optimum" aircraft to use since it would probably require substantial weight/performance penalties to do so safely and IAW FAR requirements.

That was more or less my point. If the M88 wasn't suitable to serve the route, I doubt DL would use it as a placeholder on the route. The M88 is not typically used, but it should have adequate range to fly the route both ways and there are no obstruction or runway issues at MSP or SMF. We don't see DL using any other aircraft as placeholders for routes they can't fly.

e38 · Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:17 pm

steex, your statement, "it should have adequate range to fly the route both ways and there are no obstruction or runway issues at MSP or SMF."

This is true, but keep in mind there are many more issues to consider when determining whether an aircraft is suitable to operate a particular route. In the case of Delta using MD-88 aircraft to serve West Coast destinations, you also have to consider such things as driftdown limitations, approach/climb capabilities, and second segment climb performance, just to mention a few.

e38

brilondon · Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting united319 (Reply 3):
I love UAL but some of these RJ routes are insane.

I agree about the routes that UAL flies with their ERJs are too long to be cooped up in such a small confined cramped space. I remember a flight from YYZ to IAH on a ERJ-145 of UA's feeder airline that had us on the plane for over 4.5 hours from the time we boarded to the taxi to the deicing pad to the 7th position for take off and then when we finally arrived in IAH the pilot told us that due to our arrival time we had to be assigned a new gate and that they were not ready for us at that gate. BS, I know, but that was the longest I have ever been on an airplane of that size. I try to avoid such types of flights when I can.

steex · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 34):
This is true, but keep in mind there are many more issues to consider when determining whether an aircraft is suitable to operate a particular route. In the case of Delta using MD-88 aircraft to serve West Coast destinations, you also have to consider such things as driftdown limitations, approach/climb capabilities, and second segment climb performance, just to mention a few.

I understand that, I wasn't attempting to provide a comprehensive list of every consideration in flight ops and route planning. My point remains unchanged - if DL's position is that it would not be willing to fly the M88 on MSP-SMF-MSP, I imagine they wouldn't let it be a placeholder aircraft on that route.

lhcvg · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 25):

DEN also has those insanely long runways (isn't one the longest in the Western Hemisphere or some such?), so as long as you can get off the ground you can do it because you don't need the terrain clearance.

Spacepope · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:31 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 25):
While Delta never flew the MD-88 in and out of SLC, the majority of ATL-DEN flights were scheduled with the MD-88 at one time. I always found this strange since SLC is almost 1000 feet lower in elevation than DEN. When I asked why DEN and not SLC, a Delta captain told me it was due to the close proximity of the Wasatch Range to SLC where the Rockies don't begin until about 30 miles west of DEN.

Fuzzy memories of COS-ATL being on an MD-88 as well, with shorter runways and being 1000 feet higher in elevation than DEN. Longest runways run N/S, parallel to the front range though, so terrain might not be too much a factor here either. Lately it's been all 738s on the route.

e38 · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:54 pm

quoting LHCVG (Reply 37), "so as long as you can get off the ground you can do it because you don't need the terrain clearance."

LHCVG, not necessarily. There are many more issues to consider other than runway length. Reference my reply number 34 above--driftdown, approach/climb capability, second segment climb performance, just to name a few.

e38

deltaguy767 · Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:08 pm

Remember doing CVG-TUS in an M88 back in the winter of 2001 or so, GCM has the distance as 1346 nm.

tylersmithsjc · Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:29 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 24):
SMF/SJC/SAN-MCO

I think you mean SMF/SJC/SAN-MSP. I wish we had DL to MCO. Don't forget that DL also has the MD90 on MSP-SFO.

lhcvg · Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 39):

Of course, I was being tongue-in-cheek about the JT8's being dogs and the long runways at DEN.

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