ajsljet45
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Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:53 pm

Looks like New Haven is looking to resume service to Washington DC

http://www.nhregister.com/general-ne...ould-restore-washington-dc-charter


On another note, any chance B6 would ever take a stab at HVN-DCA?
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:59 pm

I always thought if F9 could make the runway work, that a TTN style operation HVN to ORD, RDU, CLT, MCO, ATL on a 319 would work well.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:07 pm

HVN seems like exactly an airport that Frontier should hit if the runway could allow it. Get more of the NYC suburbs covered. You have alot of people near HVN and all the airports are a hike. amtrak to EWR has really helped but i think HVN is one of the gold mines out there for the right carrier who can use that runway.
 
richierich
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting ajsljet45 (Thread starter):
On another note, any chance B6 would ever take a stab at HVN-DCA?

Not a chance in you-know-what. I'm not even sure B6 is doing well BDL-DCA but I am basing this on rudimentary research (fares, no additional rotations added, etc.) DCA-HVN is a pipe dream, I'm afraid.

The biggest roadblock may not even be passenger interest: it's the ever-pervasive issue of the runway length at HVN. Could it support a fully loaded E190 to DCA? Yes, yes, UA used to fly B732s to ORD from here 'back in the day,' but my information is that it was common for these planes to leave less than half-filled.

I have often said, and written on a.net, that if HVN could add another 1,000 feet to the runway (*even 500ft would help), there is a ton of potential for CT's second commercial airport. A lot of "ifs" here, but if B6 could safely add flights to MCO and FLL, I believe it would be a goldmine for the airline and the City of New Haven (and East Haven, which part of the airport lies in.) Like HPN and LGB, this is one of the most hotly contested airports for local NIMBYs in the entire country, and any threat of additional flights or adding airport traffic is usually put down quickly or taken to court. But money talks, right? And both cash-strapped New Haven and East Haven are sitting on a lot of landing and passenger revenue that is currently going elsewhere. US with 3-4 flights a day, on DH3s to PHL, isn't cutting it, and it's too bad because it is my belief that the potential exists. Those living in relatively affluent Southern CT, within 20 miles of HVN, currently have to go to HPN (30-50 miles away), BDL (40-60 miles away), or the NY airports (60--100 miles away).
None shall pass!!!!
 
continental004
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:45 pm

For a moment I briefly thought HVN was HAV lol
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):

I always thought if F9 could make the runway work, that a TTN style operation HVN to ORD, RDU, CLT, MCO, ATL on a 319 would work well.


Agreed. I think HVN to Florida on G4/F9/NK could work except again for the runway issue.

I don't think this Buzzair service has much of a chance. IAD isn't the preferred airport for this kind of short haul traffic and without a codeshare with UA, connections wouldn't work well either.
 
richierich
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
I always thought if F9 could make the runway work, that a TTN style operation HVN to ORD, RDU, CLT, MCO, ATL on a 319 would work well.

"if" being the key word.
I don't have the operational performance figures in front of me, but I dont think a loaded A319 is going to make ORD, MCO or ATL from a 5,600ft runway at HVN.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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spinkid
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:38 pm

You can pretty much forget any dream of the runway being extended, at least in our lifetimes.

That rules out B6, NK, and Allegiant. Frontier seems more focused on mainline cities these days with the exception of Trenton.

What about something like the Q400?
 
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spinkid
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:50 pm

Also, Buzz only serves MDW, Branson and AUS. Would they add any other routes either from HVN or IAD to base a plane there?
 
catiii
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting ajsljet45 (Thread starter):

There's no way JetBlue would waste a precious DCA slot on HVN. What would they gain? What are the PDEW?

Quoting richierich (Reply 3):


Couple of points here:

First, DCA-BDL is performing very well. The 190 is the perfect aircraft for it and yields are where they need to be. JetBlue, isn't about frequency at this point at the DCA focus city, it's about adding more destinations. None of the existing Blue Cities served out of DCA are seeing more frequency as the slots B6 is getting are to be used for new service.

UA's service to ORD was on the 735, not the 732. The route didn't perform well (remember it was 20 years ago so it isn't a relevant comparison today) and complicating matters was the fact that the airplane took a weight penalty and a number of seats had to be blocked off for operational reasons.

Having said that, HVN will never be a serious airport, regardless of lengthening the runway. The catchment area is ably served by HPN, NYC, BDL, and PVD. The market just doesnt exist. If it did there would be hub RJ service to IAD, ORD, ATL, etc. HVN will continue to get these sketchy 135 carriers that come in, take the subsidy from the Chamber of Commerce, and then leave when it runs out.

It will be interesting to see what AA does going forward...
 
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CV990A
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:16 am

My wife has family in the area, and we usually just drive up, but I'd do it, just to log a Jetstream!

Glad to see the new service - for both airports.
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
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spinkid
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:28 am

Having said that, HVN will never be a serious airport, regardless of lengthening the runway. The catchment area is ably served by HPN, NYC, BDL, and PVD. The market just doesnt exist.

Its not easy to access for a good portion of the area. For certain areas north and west it involves a drive through downtown New Haven, or a long detour, or battling 95/91
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Having said that, HVN will never be a serious airport, regardless of lengthening the runway. The catchment area is ably served by HPN, NYC, BDL, and PVD. The market just doesnt exist. If it did there would be hub RJ service to IAD, ORD, ATL, etc. HVN will continue to get these sketchy 135 carriers that come in, take the subsidy from the Chamber of Commerce, and then leave when it runs out.

Not to mention 50% of the potential catchment area is water. If there was a Q400 operator committed to the Northeast I think we would see new HVN service, but that won't happen now. US will keep the PHL connection until those Dash 8s are cycled out, then HVN will be finished as a commercial airport. Lots of airports will lose service - there won't be enough pilots at the pay regionals are offering.
 
N757ST
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:49 am

New haven would be a cool market. B6 might experiment one day, but otherwise it is what it is. I loved flying out of there but in the end Bdl and HPN are too close.
 
erzr2
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:02 am

Honestly pretty dubious about how successful this would be. Unless Buzz gets a UA codeshare, the PDEW is pretty low for KHVN-KIAD, KHVN-KDCA would be higher, but it's still a time-saver (and probably will be a price-saver) to do KBDL-KDCA or KHPN-KDCA.
 
tom11
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting richierich (Reply 3):
Not a chance in you-know-what. I'm not even sure B6 is doing well BDL-DCA but I am basing this on rudimentary research (fares, no additional rotations added, etc.) DCA-HVN is a pipe dream, I'm afraid.

DCA - BDL has been increased from 2x E190 to 2x A320 starting in May/June, and is doing far better than it was when it first started. Just because no additional rotations have been added, doesn't mean a market isn't doing well.
 
tom11
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
I always thought if F9 could make the runway work, that a TTN style operation HVN to ORD, RDU, CLT, MCO, ATL on a 319 would work well.


F9 or NK is better off just starting service to BDL. BDL has plenty of free gates, and far better facilities than HVN does.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:29 am

Quoting richierich (Reply 3):
Those living in relatively affluent Southern CT, within 20 miles of HVN, currently have to go to HPN (30-50 miles away), BDL (40-60 miles away), or the NY airports (60--100 miles away).

I grew up in that catchment area and my parents still live there. HVN was always 6th on our list of airports to check when booking anywhere. I'd be willing to bet an enormous percentage of the area doesn't have a clue HVN has commercial service. Plus it isn't even that people HAVE to go elsewhere. Even if they got more service it would probably be a DL CRJ to DTW. If you're in that area of Connecticut you may as well just go to NYC because you're going to get nonstop to about anywhere you need to go.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 15):
DCA - BDL has been increased from 2x E190 to 2x A320 starting in May/June, and is doing far better than it was when it first started. Just because no additional rotations have been added, doesn't mean a market isn't doing well.

But the upgauge also doesn't mean they're making money. I hope they're making money hand over fist, trust me. But I'm very cautious to call it a success.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 16):
F9 or NK is better off just starting service to BDL. BDL has plenty of free gates, and far better facilities than HVN does.

F9, been there, done that. Twice I believe. They aren't coming back. NK is a maybe in my book. Maybe a rotation a day to FLL and LAS. I've seen people suggest G4. I personally think that's a pipe dream. BDL isn't a G4 market and the leisure markets they cover are already well served by the legacies and WN. I think if anybody in the region gets G4 it will be SWF.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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ssteve
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:39 am

College towns get O&D that's very averse to car travel. Rail can't help though.
 
catiii
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:47 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):

An up gauge does indicate it's a success. It isn't like they have extra 320s laying around, especially as they go into shark,et and cabin mods, to throw at routes for the heck of it.
 
N757ST
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:10 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):

An up gauge does indicate it's a success. It isn't like they have extra 320s laying around, especially as they go into shark,et and cabin mods, to throw at routes for the heck of it.


I think the flight is doing well... Heck the afternoon back to bdl is almost always full. That said, I think the upgrade has more to do with aircraft rotations and upgrading the Florida e90 flying that was necessary to feed the aircraft to bdl.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 16):
and far better facilities than HVN does.

IIRC, isn't the terminal at HVN really small or did they fix that?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
richierich
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 13):
New haven would be a cool market. B6 might experiment one day, but otherwise it is what it is. I loved flying out of there but in the end Bdl and HPN are too close.

Too close? I really dont understand this argument.

New Haven plus the surrounding communities mean you are probably talking about 150,000 people. Draw a 20 mile radius, and you are probably talking closer to 250,000 people.
BDL is 56 driving miles from HVN per Google Maps; HPN is 53 miles. The NY airports are obviously further. As somebody who has spent much of his life in this part of the world, I can tell you that neither of these are easy drives (especially HPN and LGA/JFK/EWR.) New Haven to Westchester County Airport is easily a two-hour proposition most weekday mornings and you'd have to give yourself more time than that to be comfortable. BDL is more approachable but Hartford can have its own traffic issues..

I am not claiming that HVN would ever make huge inroads into BDL's market (HVN's most realistic competitor.) But I really do think it could have a future beyond what it currently does. The biggest drawback is the facilities, not the market, in my opinion. If it could handle flights to/from Florida, for example, it would be a logical alternative to BDL/HPN/NYC for the region.

Sadly, I agree that when the Dash-8s leave US Airways/AA express fleet, without a major carrier stepping in, HVN is on borrowed time as a commercial airport.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 22):
Sadly, I agree that when the Dash-8s leave US Airways/AA express fleet, without a major carrier stepping in, HVN is on borrowed time as a commercial airport.
Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
The market just doesnt exist. If it did there would be hub RJ service to IAD, ORD, ATL, etc.

So why hasn't/didn't HVN see a lot of RJ service during the 50-seat heyday? No market demand (which some in this thread have argued exists)? Not enough demand to fill a 50-seater? Weight restrictions due to runway length?
 
richierich
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):
So why hasn't/didn't HVN see a lot of RJ service during the 50-seat heyday? No market demand (which some in this thread have argued exists)? Not enough demand to fill a 50-seater? Weight restrictions due to runway length?

Maybe hub rotations are not the right opportunities. Maybe HVN needs point-to-point service (i.e. MCO, MIA, FLL).

DL served CVG with a CR7 about a decade ago. I don't know if there were performance limitations with this aircraft, but maybe this was an aircraft 20 seats too large for this route - tough for me to say, I loathe the 50-seat CRJs - but they didn't stimulate the market with this service. Also, the flights were VERY expensive... I know because I looked. Maybe CVG was not the right hub (I think ATL would have been different but again, that creates other problems.) I have often wondered if US/AA could operate to CLT and if they could be successful with that.
None shall pass!!!!
 
catiii
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):
So why hasn't/didn't HVN see a lot of RJ service during the 50-seat heyday? No market demand (which some in this thread have argued exists)? Not enough demand to fill a 50-seater? Weight restrictions due to runway length?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Quoting richierich (Reply 24):
DL served CVG with a CR7 about a decade ago.

It was a 50 seat CRJ, not the CR7. They had to charge a premium at HVN to justify the flights and so as not to poach traffic from other airports in the catchment area.

Quoting richierich (Reply 24):
Maybe HVN needs point-to-point service (i.e. MCO, MIA, FLL).

P2P to Florida definitely will not work, as that is leisure traffic that cannot command the higher fare to justify serving HVN.

I think, and not to be flip about it, if there were opportunities at HVN someone beyond a Buzz Airways would have exploited them by now...

[Edited 2015-03-04 07:40:16]
 
727LOVER
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 12):
Not to mention 50% of the potential catchment area is water.

The same could be said for a bunch of other airports as well.

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Having said that, HVN will never be a serious airport, regardless of lengthening the runway. The catchment area is ably served by HPN, NYC, BDL, and PVD. The market just doesnt exist

Well, they could try my idea:  Bridgeport/New Haven Regional Airport (by 727LOVER Apr 6 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting richierich (Reply 3):
this is one of the most hotly contested airports for local NIMBYs in the entire country

Granted, it is in the middle of a neighborhood.

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
UA's service to ORD was on the 735, not the 732.

Actually, the 733 mostly...although I think some 735 did appear
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7438559&nseq=4


Well here's a shot from the 90's heyday. Six aircraft that RON
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7438566&nseq=3
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
richierich
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 26):
Well here's a shot from the 90's heyday. Six aircraft that RON
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7438566&nseq=3

For anybody that knows this airport today, that's a heck of a photo!

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 26):
Granted, it is in the middle of a neighborhood.

A neighborhood that is not any older than the airport.

Quoting catiii (Reply 25):
It was a 50 seat CRJ, not the CR7.

I believe you, I have no proof, but I swear I recall seeing a CR7 when i went to HVN. But considering it was a CVG flight, a CRJ makes more sense.

Quoting catiii (Reply 25):
I think, and not to be flip about it, if there were opportunities at HVN someone beyond a Buzz Airways would have exploited them by now...

With all due respect, I don't like that argument. There are still some opportunities that the big airlines have missed or not capitalized upon, and this is certainly true when you consider niche airlines like Allegiant or Spirit or F9.

But, yes, without an expanded runway or improved facilities, this is largely moot.
None shall pass!!!!
 
727LOVER
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:50 pm

Wasn't US doing HVN-DCA for a while?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
N757ST
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 22):

Quoting N757ST (Reply 13):
New haven would be a cool market. B6 might experiment one day, but otherwise it is what it is. I loved flying out of there but in the end Bdl and HPN are too close.

Too close? I really dont understand this argument.

New Haven plus the surrounding communities mean you are probably talking about 150,000 people. Draw a 20 mile radius, and you are probably talking closer to 250,000 people.
BDL is 56 driving miles from HVN per Google Maps; HPN is 53 miles. The NY airports are obviously further. As somebody who has spent much of his life in this part of the world, I can tell you that neither of these are easy drives (especially HPN and LGA/JFK/EWR.) New Haven to Westchester County Airport is easily a two-hour proposition most weekday mornings and you'd have to give yourself more time than that to be comfortable. BDL is more approachable but Hartford can have its own traffic issues..

I am not claiming that HVN would ever make huge inroads into BDL's market (HVN's most realistic competitor.) But I really do think it could have a future beyond what it currently does. The biggest drawback is the facilities, not the market, in my opinion. If it could handle flights to/from Florida, for example, it would be a logical alternative to BDL/HPN/NYC for the region.

Sadly, I agree that when the Dash-8s leave US Airways/AA express fleet, without a major carrier stepping in, HVN is on borrowed time as a commercial airport.

53 miles is 53 miles man. It's not that far. I grew up and live now 20 mins from HVN and I have a very vested interest in b6 (hint hint)... I'd love them to serve it but I just don't see it. It could happen, look at ORH... But I don't see it for a while. Growing up in the Ct river valley no one thinks of HVN as an option... Everyone goes to BDL. It is what it is.
 
tom11
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):
F9, been there, done that. Twice I believe. They aren't coming back. NK is a maybe in my book. Maybe a rotation a day to FLL and LAS. I've seen people suggest G4. I personally think that's a pipe dream. BDL isn't a G4 market and the leisure markets they cover are already well served by the legacies and WN. I think if anybody in the region gets G4 it will be SWF.

When F9 came to BDL, F9 was a COMPLETELY different airline. First they tried BDL-DEN, then BDL-MKE. Both before they transitioned into a ULCC. I would say they have a chance to come back under the ULCC model.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 17):
But the upgauge also doesn't mean they're making money. I hope they're making money hand over fist, trust me. But I'm very cautious to call it a success.

The upgage can't mean they are losing money either...they could have pulled back to 1x/day if it was really an issue. I agree that E190 demand on other routes is part of the upgage, but even with that it's a good sign.
 
catiii
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 27):
There are still some opportunities that the big airlines have missed or not capitalized upon, and this is certainly true when you consider niche airlines like Allegiant or Spirit or F9.

Right, but those niche airlines aren't, and have not been, even sniffing around New Haven. And it isn't like they are so new that they just havent gotten there yet.

Quoting richierich (Reply 27):

I believe you, I have no proof, but I swear I recall seeing a CR7 when i went to HVN. But considering it was a CVG flight, a CRJ makes more sense.

I went back and looked at the schedules, which for some reason aren't pasting correctly in here, and it was all CRJ. I thought maybe they added a CR7 but given the lack of success they were having with the 3 frequencies a day they had I presume they didn't need to upgauge.

I often wonder if ATL would have been a better solution than CVG for hub service.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 28):
Wasn't US doing HVN-DCA for a while?

Yes. I believe it ended after 9/11. They also served BWI at one point as well.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 18):
College towns get O&D that's very averse to car travel. Rail can't help though.

One thing Yale has that many don't though is legacy students with big $$$ and a lot of international students. Those kids can afford to fly, but most of them still probably end up going to NYC. Especially the international students since they can pretty much get a nonstop anywhere in the world out of JFK.

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):
An up gauge does indicate it's a success. It isn't like they have extra 320s laying around, especially as they go into shark,et and cabin mods, to throw at routes for the heck of it.

It just means they are getting people to fly it. Doesn't mean they are making money off of them too. I've had a few friends who have utilized it who have said it was them and maybe 10 or 15 other people. Obviously that isn't indicative of a month. But it peaked my interest in the feasibility of the flight.

Quoting richierich (Reply 22):
New Haven to Westchester County Airport is easily a two-hour proposition most weekday mornings and you'd have to give yourself more time than that to be comfortable. BDL is more approachable but Hartford can have its own traffic issues..

HPN is two hours if you take the Merritt Parkway. If you take 84 and 684 it's a heck of a lot easier. Even Hartford really isn't that bad. No traffic I can get from Waterbury to BDL in 55 minutes. My worst in terrible Friday traffic is 1:10.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 29):
Everyone goes to BDL. It is what it is.

   Like I said earlier. Most people probably don't have a clue HVN even has service.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 30):
The upgage can't mean they are losing money either...they could have pulled back to 1x/day if it was really an issue. I agree that E190 demand on other routes is part of the upgage, but even with that it's a good sign.

Yeah but how are you going to keep the politicians, who frequent the route, happy with only 1 rotation a day?
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
catiii
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:38 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
It just means they are getting people to fly it. Doesn't mean they are making money off of them too. I've had a few friends who have utilized it who have said it was them and maybe 10 or 15 other people. Obviously that isn't indicative of a month. But it peaked my interest in the feasibility of the flight.

So if JetBlue is losing money on an E190, why then upgauge to an even larger airplane with higher operating costs to lose more money?
 
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ssteve
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RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
Quoting SSTeve (Reply 18):
College towns get O&D that's very averse to car travel. Rail can't help though.

One thing Yale has that many don't though is legacy students with big $$$ and a lot of international students. Those kids can afford to fly, but most of them still probably end up going to NYC. Especially the international students since they can pretty much get a nonstop anywhere in the world out of JFK.

Exactly right. You see ITH (Cornell) and LEB (Dartmouth) keep service with tiny planes from international hubs to do the last puddle jump for these types-- those willing to pay substantially more to get the last miles-- but I suspect the rail service to HVN is an adequate replacement.
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:49 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):

Quoting N757ST (Reply 29):
Everyone goes to BDL. It is what it is.

Like I said earlier. Most people probably don't have a clue HVN even has service.

Even if they do, many people are hesitant to fly on a plane unless it is a jet. In addition, people hate connecting, so why fly HVN - PHL, and then PHL - DEN, when you can just drive to BDL and fly BDL - DEN for half the price, with no connection, and on a plane 5x the size?
 
ScottB
Posts: 6622
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:20 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 34):
You see ITH (Cornell) and LEB (Dartmouth) keep service with tiny planes from international hubs to do the last puddle jump for these types

Service to LEB is subsidized under the Essential Air Service program. ITH manages to maintain service because it is relatively isolated, unlike HVN.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 35):
In addition, people hate connecting, so why fly HVN - PHL, and then PHL - DEN, when you can just drive to BDL and fly BDL - DEN for half the price, with no connection, and on a plane 5x the size?

   This is the real reason why HVN struggles to maintain/attract service.
 
catiii
Posts: 3125
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 35):
Even if they do, many people are hesitant to fly on a plane unless it is a jet.

I don't know about that. Customer scores on the2 class Q400 are very high.
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 37):
Quoting tom11 (Reply 35):
Even if they do, many people are hesitant to fly on a plane unless it is a jet.

I don't know about that. Customer scores on the2 class Q400 are very high.

That's true -- but the Q400 is a whole different animal. HVN sees just the -200, and MAYBE a -300 if they are lucky.
 
us330
Posts: 3506
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:42 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
One thing Yale has that many don't though is legacy students with big $$$ and a lot of international students. Those kids can afford to fly, but most of them still probably end up going to NYC. Especially the international students since they can pretty much get a nonstop anywhere in the world out of JFK.

Yes, some of the legacy students have big $$$--but it's actually the international students that are typically more loaded than the average legacy student. There's also plenty of students there who are financial aid--the Ivies may have a reputation for being posh, but because of their large endowments, they also tend to have some of the most generous financial aid programs of any private institutions. The school is also relatively small--the total student population, including grad and undergrad, is only 11,000.

From my experience, most of the international students traveled three times a year--and usually out of JFK--summer break, Christmas break, and spring break (which was usually two weeks). Americans east of the rockies would also go home for Thanksgiving.
People from the west coast would usually take CT Limo to JFK to catch a non-stop--anywhere else, mostly flew out of Bradley. A handful used HVN.
My choice of BDL versus LGA was largely fare dependent--I'd pay up to a $100 premium for BDL over LGA.

Student traffic is limited to only a couple of weeks per year--an airline can't bank on that traffic to sustain a route.
 
ajsljet45
Topic Author
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:54 pm

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:10 am

Has 9K ever tried HVN ?
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting ajsljet45 (Reply 40):
Has 9K ever tried HVN ?

I don't think so -- but they might be a good fit.
 
richierich
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
Like I said earlier. Most people probably don't have a clue HVN even has service.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 36):
This is the real reason why HVN struggles to maintain/attract service.

Yes, I agree!

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
HPN is two hours if you take the Merritt Parkway. If you take 84 and 684 it's a heck of a lot easier.

I don't want to debate about which way to drive, but nobody along the CT coast (Bridgeport through Clinton) is going to be driving via Waterbury to get to HPN.
New Haven to HPN is a solid 75-minute drive with no traffic (which is almost never!) and easily a 2-hour plus drive during commuting hours. Additionally, there are no good mass transit options.

Quoting catiii (Reply 31):
Right, but those niche airlines aren't, and have not been, even sniffing around New Haven. And it isn't like they are so new that they just havent gotten there yet.

I know they haven't, and they won't be under current circumstances, which is unlikely to change. But my point, albeit long-winded, is that HVN has the potential to be some much more than it currently is IF it was upgraded to allow longer flights and had improved ground facilities. But it will never happen, sigh.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 29):
53 miles is 53 miles man. It's not that far.

The mileage is what it is...fine...but it is the unpredictabiitiy of this drive that makes it so unappealing for the sizeable shoreline population.
None shall pass!!!!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3030
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 6):
"if" being the key word.
I don't have the operational performance figures in front of me, but I dont think a loaded A319 is going to make ORD, MCO or ATL from a 5,600ft runway at HVN.

F9 does TTN-MSP just fine off of 6,000
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: Rumor:Buzz Airways To Start HVN-IAD

Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 42):
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 32):
HPN is two hours if you take the Merritt Parkway. If you take 84 and 684 it's a heck of a lot easier.

I don't want to debate about which way to drive, but nobody along the CT coast (Bridgeport through Clinton) is going to be driving via Waterbury to get to HPN.
New Haven to HPN is a solid 75-minute drive with no traffic (which is almost never!) and easily a 2-hour plus drive during commuting hours. Additionally, there are no good mass transit options.

And BDL is about the same, but with far more flight options.

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