Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed May 13, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting austwin (Reply 149):
I understand the frequency of the noise would make an impact, but do conversations have to stop because of it? Does it block out dialog on a TV program you are watching or music you may be listening to?

Having lived near Tempe town lake for several years. There was noise and it was noticeable, but rarely did it interfere with my daily conversations or TV. The BA 747 and some of the Fedexs were much louder, but those are few and far between. My opinion is that this small vocal group is blowing this way out of proportion, but I will concede that going from 0 or very little noise to consistent level of some noise could be obnoxious to some.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed May 20, 2015 2:18 pm

Driving past the airport on the I-10 yesterday I saw an unmarked A300 (I think) over at West Cargo. Unpainted DHL? or something more interesting?
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed May 20, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 151):

Driving past the airport on the I-10 yesterday I saw an unmarked A300 (I think) over at West Cargo. Unpainted DHL? or something more interesting?

None of the US based contract DHL carriers operate the A300, so I doubt it was for them.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed May 20, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 151):

DHL operates on the far end of the west cargo ramp, pretty much right next to sky chefs.. Also when I drove past it was a 767, not an A330. Most likely some cargo charter of some sort.

So the T3 project is moving along pretty fast. They finally walled off T3s so that building will be gone soon enough.
 
wn676
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed May 20, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 151):

Driving past the airport on the I-10 yesterday I saw an unmarked A300 (I think) over at West Cargo. Unpainted DHL? or something more interesting?


Amerijet has had a few 762s in and out over the last week or so. Could have been that...N739AX looks to be unpainted at the moment.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 21, 2015 2:28 pm

77E operating DL1821 DTW-PHX-DTW today just in case anyone didn't see the other thread.
 
Beefmoney
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 21, 2015 3:23 pm

Hey guys, quick question:
For at least the last decade it's seemed like the direction of flow throughout the day has stayed fairly consistent. Easterly flow in the morning until about 1 PM, then Westerly flow for the rest of the day into the night. But over the last couple of weeks it's seemed like there's been a concerted effort to keep the airport on Westerly flow all day long. So much so that one morning last week they started out logically with early morning Easterly flow due to the winds being up in the teens directly out of the east. But around 8 or 9 in the morning (about the time ATC management would show up in the morning I presume), they flipped the boat and started doing Westerly flow despite the 10-15 knot tailwind. They only did that for about an hour until they got enough complaints that they were forced to flip it back to Easterly flow, but the fact that they did it in the first place when it wasn't remotely appropriate given the wind conditions, makes me think that there's some sort of concerted effort to try and maintain Westerly flow all day, which is a departure from the way it's been done for quite a long time.

Any information on what the deal might be?
 
Maverick623
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 21, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 156):

Any information on what the deal might be?

Probably taxi flows. Taxiway Tango is currently shut down due to the north end being torn up for concrete replacement.

When in east flow, especially about 9AM, Romeo gets used as a holding pen, and gets backed up with US/AA planes that landed on the south side holding for a gate. If the guy at the top of Romeo is the last one to get cleared into a gate, every single plane behind it is now delayed more than need be.

During west flow, Romeo is used for departing aircraft heading to 25R, and planes that land on the south side will taxi up Tango normally, but have to use Sierra for the time being, and then taxi to the holding area next to the Executive terminal on Charlie if they don't have a gate, leaving the rest of the taxiways clear for planes to depart and arrive into the ramp areas easier.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
chrisair
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 21, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 156):
But over the last couple of weeks it's seemed like there's been a concerted effort to keep the airport on Westerly flow all day long.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 157):
Probably taxi flows.

I like to think they're doing it to piss off all the neighbors that are upset at the "awful" and "intolerable" jet noise.  
 
KRIC777
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 6:45 am

Just out of curiosity, do any locals that work at PHX have any info on the unmarked white CRJ, whose tail number I *believe* is N407SW, that always sits on the north side of T4 in a somewhat remote stand over on the east end. I fly out/in if PHX, mostly on AA/US, nearly every week, and that plane is almost always at it's stand. On a BUR-PHX flight home one evening a few weeks ago (and after the gate agent told me about a down gauge from the normal CR7/CR9) I flew her home. It was all white, with no markings except for some blue flourishes on the winglets. Again, I think the tail number was N407SW, which would imply a Skywest bird, but there were Mesa Airlines safety cards in the seat-back pockets. Is it just a Skywest plane that is kept in the "bullpen" in case something comes up? I also noted that it was a pretty long and convoluted walk from the plane to the entrance to the terminal when we disembarked...which tells me it's a pretty remote stand that may have been hastily established?
I'm not in the industry and don't work at the airport, so please don't ridicule me, I'm just curious.
 
KRIC777
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 6:49 am

BTW -- With respect to my above thread about the mystery Skywest bird, the database shows it in Skywest colors for both Delta Connection and Midwest Express. Thanks, all  
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 8:40 am

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 156):

It has nothing to do with trying to give preference to one flow or the other or for taxi flows. The cities of Phoenix and Tempe have an LOA which requires the flows to be 50/50 over the course of a month (more specifically, no more than 50% of departures heading towards Tempe for noise abatement). Unfortunately during the spring when the winds tend to kick up, it makes that balance extremely difficult to manage because it often favors east flow. I don't work there anymore, but my guess is that since it's getting towards the end of the month and we've had quite a bit of weather in the past few weeks, the flows are imbalanced. They're probably doing the best they can to correct that. It has nothing to do with how the FAA chooses to manage the airspace or with management meddling -- the FAA is required to comply with the ridiculous LOA that Phoenix signed to appease Tempe. This has gone on for several years now, and typically as you said the flows are like clockwork (the switch from east to west flow is usually 10-11am, reverting after the late evening rush). During the spring and monsoon, managing the balance of flows isn't easy, but even during the monsoon it's easier since that's a consistent south-to-north flow and doesn't usually favor one flow or another.
 
mountainwest90
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting kric777 (Reply 159):

Just out of curiosity, do any locals that work at PHX have any info on the unmarked white CRJ, whose tail number I *believe* is N407SW, that always sits on the north side of T4 in a somewhat remote stand over on the east end. I fly out/in if PHX, mostly on AA/US, nearly every week, and that plane is almost always at it's stand. On a BUR-PHX flight home one evening a few weeks ago (and after the gate agent told me about a down gauge from the normal CR7/CR9) I flew her home. It was all white, with no markings except for some blue flourishes on the winglets. Again, I think the tail number was N407SW, which would imply a Skywest bird, but there were Mesa Airlines safety cards in the seat-back pockets. Is it just a Skywest plane that is kept in the "bullpen" in case something comes up?

No it is a Mesa Plane. And if I was a betting man I would guess that the flight you took on it was late. It's used as a spare aircraft here in PHX for Mesa so it only gets used if a CRJ-900 breaks down and because Mesa is being run so thin at the moment with very little slack it gets used quite regularly. It is probably the most unreliable aircraft Mesa owns. It has a lot of gremlins: I believe the anti-skid has the biggest problems. From what I've heard it's only kept around to screw over the Mesa pilots. (Something to do with Vacation Pay?) You should kind of feel lucky you survived a flight on this aircraft because I personally would be okay never to fly it. I've had multiple Mesa pilots admit that they haven't even flown a CRJ-200 for years before getting called to do a trip in this aircraft. In fact about 4 months ago there was a pilot that refused to fly this aircraft because they hadn't flown a CRJ-200 in 5 years and he wasn't about to try to fly into BUR so that flight got cancelled. You are right about the registration: N407SW and yes it was owned by SkyWest at one point then sold to Mesa because SkyWest wasn't going to pay the money to put the aircraft threw a D-Check. It gets it's livery from it's previous time at Go!

Here it is when it was with SkyWest:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar - PHX Spotters
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Flightline Aviation Media - Bruce Leibowitz



Go! Livery: Amazing there's no pictures in the database of N407SW but you get the idea


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bobby Allison

Quoting kric777 (Reply 159):
I also noted that it was a pretty long and convoluted walk from the plane to the entrance to the terminal when we disembarked...which tells me it's a pretty remote stand that may have been hastily established?

I'm assuming you parked at gate B15C. There's actually 3 gates: B15A B15B B15C. B15C is usually where planes go to sit for a long time or overnight. You should consider it a rare treat to have used that gate, especially as it is right next to Taxiway Romeo so you can be right next to A319/A320/A321/757/737's if you are just lucky enough to see some taxi by while way out there. These gates have been there from a long time but rarely gets used you'll probably never use them again in fact. And you are right, signage is pretty poor and it can be pretty confusing out there for passengers.
 
KRIC777
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting mountainwest90 (Reply 162):

Thanks for the info MW90  
Yes, my flight from BUR was indeed delayed -- and it was gate B15C. And I did sort of think the whole production seemed like something of an oddity, with an unmarked plane and parking so far from the terminal. Ironically enough, the flight was cancelled altogether the previous week; because I got to the airport so early, US was able to give me a taxi voucher and book me on a flight out of LAX. The taxi ride from BUR to LAX took longer than the flight.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Fri May 22, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 161):
the FAA is required to comply with the ridiculous LOA that Phoenix signed to appease Tempe.

Which I never understood. How does a federal agency with exclusive jurisdiction over civilian air traffic become required to abide by an agreement about air traffic that they never signed off on?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Sun May 24, 2015 8:02 pm

The funny thing with N407SW is it was a Go! plane that they used in Hawai'i. With its unreliability issues one would think that Mesa would of hated to have that plane in Hawai'i. But Go! never seemed to care about making money or teh passengers in Hawai'i.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 164):
Which I never understood. How does a federal agency with exclusive jurisdiction over civilian air traffic become required to abide by an agreement about air traffic that they never signed off on?

Because politicians were complaining and they wanted to keep their constituents happy. This was a move my Tempe that Phoenix signed on with because they both had to be in agreement. If I remember correctly, Phoenix really did not care about the flow and viewed Sky Harbor as a money making entity. The people in Tempe were the ones that were complaining and the FAA viewed this as a local issue and really did not care. When the cities came in with an agreement the FAA saw this as a way to put this to rest.
 
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Sun May 24, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 165):
When the cities came in with an agreement the FAA saw this as a way to put this to rest.

I wonder if something similar is going to happen with the new departure paths and the complaining people near downtown.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Sun May 24, 2015 11:52 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 166):
I wonder if something similar is going to happen with the new departure paths and the complaining people near downtown.

Probably, The funny thing is last time is was Tempe raising a stink and Phoenix not caring. I think it will be the opposite this time, BUT there are still a fair share of NIMBY people in Tempe.
 
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 6:49 am

What is this fall's Hawaii schedule out of PHX? I might be back in PHX sometime in October, and I'll probably be taking a trip to Hawaii during the Christmas break. Have there been any noticeable changes? PHX has always had a strong hawaii market.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
chrisair
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 7:59 am

Anyone know why DL operated an extra PHX-ATL redeye this evening?
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 169):
Anyone know why DL operated an extra PHX-ATL redeye this evening?

They typically do on the last day of the Spring schedule. An extra 757 usually ends up in PHX. IIRC, same thing happens usually around early Nov.

Edit: It seems the aircraft was routed SFO-PHX-ATL. My guess is that it was a charter for SFO-PHX.

[Edited 2015-05-28 07:20:40]
 
wn676
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 2:38 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 168):

What is this fall's Hawaii schedule out of PHX? I might be back in PHX sometime in October, and I'll probably be taking a trip to Hawaii during the Christmas break. Have there been any noticeable changes? PHX has always had a strong hawaii market.


HA has the same schedule as always, RONs from 2200 to 0800. US/AA looks to be flying their typical fall schedule as well, though I did notice that they're trying the 3rd OGG again for the winter Flex; it was loaded for 2013 but never materialized, pulled right after the DOJ lawsuit was announced. They also show a 2nd-daily LIH for that same period, usually that's a Saturday-only flight and typically doesn't op in the winter.

[Edited 2015-05-28 07:45:54]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
4holer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 8:34 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 156):
Hey guys, quick question:
For at least the last decade it's seemed like the direction of flow throughout the day has stayed fairly consistent. Easterly flow in the morning until about 1 PM, then Westerly flow for the rest of the day into the night. But over the last couple of weeks it's seemed like there's been a concerted effort to keep the airport on Westerly flow all day long. So much so that one morning last week they started out logically with early morning Easterly flow due to the winds being up in the teens directly out of the east. But around 8 or 9 in the morning (about the time ATC management would show up in the morning I presume), they flipped the boat and started doing Westerly flow despite the 10-15 knot tailwind. They only did that for about an hour until they got enough complaints that they were forced to flip it back to Easterly flow, but the fact that they did it in the first place when it wasn't remotely appropriate given the wind conditions, makes me think that there's some sort of concerted effort to try and maintain Westerly flow all day, which is a departure from the way it's been done for quite a long time.

Any information on what the deal might be?

Funny you should ask!
http://www.azfamily.com/story/291819...-flight-traffic-at-phoenix-airport
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Thu May 28, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 168):
What is this fall's Hawaii schedule out of PHX? I might be back in PHX sometime in October, and I'll probably be taking a trip to Hawaii during the Christmas break. Have there been any noticeable changes? PHX has always had a strong hawaii market.

Bring a BIG WALLET as that is prime time to go to Hawai'i for the holidays. If you can wait for the fist full week in January the prices will be down right cheap. Took the family to the Big Island as a gift for my wife getting her Doctorate degree and the cost of airfare was more than the WHOLE trip my wife and I took in June/July over last summer to Maui.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 171):
HA has the same schedule as always, RONs from 2200 to 0800. US/AA looks to be flying their typical fall schedule as well, though I did notice that they're trying the 3rd OGG again for the winter Flex; it was loaded for 2013 but never materialized, pulled right after the DOJ lawsuit was announced. They also show a 2nd-daily LIH for that same period, usually that's a Saturday-only flight and typically doesn't op in the winter.

US/AA will do the 3X a day to OGG during the peak times. Sometimes I wonder if they would put the 767 on that route as it seems to be one of the favorite islands that people from Arizona.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:15 am

Just a question, Is Compass and SkyWest both flying the CRJ's and ERJ's out of PHX for UA? I thought I heard them say Compass as a call sign when a CRJ was taking off, but the sticker and N number had it as a Skywest. I know Compass is the one flying the ERJ-175's for DL and UA, but I did not know if they were also flying CRJ's.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:32 am

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 174):
I thought I heard them say Compass as a call sign when a CRJ was taking off, but the sticker and N number had it as a Skywest. I know Compass is the one flying the ERJ-175's for DL and UA, but I did not know if they were also flying CRJ's.

Compass only operates for DL and AA. The UA 175 operators are Mesa, Skywest and Shuttle America.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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jnev3289
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:05 am

Are there very many Int'l flights from PHX or do most people connect when going Int'l?
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting JNev3289 (Reply 176):
Are there very many Int'l flights from PHX or do most people connect when going Int'l?

Currently, BA from LHR is the only long haul international service to PHX, otherwise there are a good number of flights to both Mexico, and Canada. US, now AA, also operate a non-stop service to SJO, that's about it for the time being.

The only foreign carriers serving PHX currently are, BA, AC, WS, and Y4.
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jnev3289
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 177):

Could PHX support another carrier or two? Lufthansa, Qantas, or new Alitalia (never happening but would be awesome)?
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting JNev3289 (Reply 178):
Could PHX support another carrier or two? Lufthansa, Qantas, or new Alitalia (never happening but would be awesome)?

LH has served PHX from FRA in the past, from 2001, to around 2003/2004. Service from Qantas is more likely then Alitialia, but both are extremely unlikely to ever happen. Realistically, LH returning service here, or JL starting NRT service are the best chances for another long haul foreign carrier at PHX, but I don't see either happening anytime in the near future.
Allons-y!
 
wn676
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 173):
US/AA will do the 3X a day to OGG during the peak times. Sometimes I wonder if they would put the 767 on that route as it seems to be one of the favorite islands that people from Arizona.

IIRC this is a first for the PHX-OGG schedule, and only for the winter flex. They haven't yet operated or even loaded 3x during spring/summer flex.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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cathay747
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 179):
LH has served PHX from FRA in the past, from 2001, to around 2003/2004. Service from Qantas is more likely then Alitialia, but both are extremely unlikely to ever happen. Realistically, LH returning service here, or JL starting NRT service are the best chances for another long haul foreign carrier at PHX, but I don't see either happening anytime in the near future.

  

If LH couldn't make PHX work long-term when it was a Star hub, there's
no way they could with it now being a oneworld hub. POSSIBLY with
their new long-haul low-cost operation they MIGHT be able to run a
3x per week flight during the winter? But I think even that is very iffy.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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cathay747
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 168):
What is this fall's Hawaii schedule out of PHX? I might be back in PHX sometime in October, and I'll probably be taking a trip to Hawaii during the Christmas break. Have there been any noticeable changes? PHX has always had a strong hawaii market.

Here's the current schedule to all points as shown in Amadeus; I used
15DEC as the date, the system gives the timetable for a week at a time,
should give you an idea:

TN15DECPHXHNL/A+YY/FN -TC-
HNL HONOLULU.USHI 15DEC15 22DEC15
1 HA 035 D PHX 3 HNL Z 0800 1140 0 01NOV15 11MAR16 763 6:40
2 US 690 X3 PHX 4 HNL M 0845 1218 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:33
3 US 692 D PHX 4 HNL M 1135 1512 0 01NOV15 12MAR16 757 6:37
4 US 694 D PHX 4 HNL M 1459 1832 0 16DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:33
5 US 698 X3 PHX 4 HNL M 1800 2150 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:50
NO MORE FLIGHTS 15DEC15 TO 22DEC15

>TC//OGG
TN15DECPHXOGG/A+YY/FN -TC-
OGG KAHULUI.USHI 15DEC15 22DEC15
1 US 510 X3 PHX 4 OGG 0850 1215 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:25
2 US 432 D PHX 4 OGG 1140 1509 0 15DEC15 12MAR16 757 6:29
3 US 481 X3 PHX 4 OGG 1445 1831 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:46
NO MORE FLIGHTS 15DEC15 TO 22DEC15

>TC//KOA
TN15DECPHXKOA/A+YY/FN -TC-
KOA KONA.USHI 15DEC15 22DEC15
1 US 663 X3 PHX 4 KOA 1135 1500 0 17DEC15 12MAR16 757 6:25
NO MORE FLIGHTS 15DEC15 TO 22DEC15

>TC//LIH
TN15DECPHXLIH/A+YY/FN -TC-
LIH LIHUE.USHI 15DEC15 22DEC15
1 US 684 X3 PHX 4 LIH 1133 1517 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:44
2 US 672 X3 PHX 4 LIH 1450 1830 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:40
NO MORE FLIGHTS 15DEC15 TO 22DEC15
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 181):
If LH couldn't make PHX work long-term when it was a Star hub, there's
no way they could with it now being a oneworld hub. POSSIBLY with
their new long-haul low-cost operation they MIGHT be able to run a
3x per week flight during the winter? But I think even that is very iffy.

BA makes it work because in addition to paying passengers, the cargo operation keeps the flights profitable. I suppose if there was a cargo need to FRA one might see a flight but I don't see the links. Intel seems to use the flight quite a bit for their cargo operations so that might help direct need.

I'd wager NRT over FRA not that either is likely.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 183):
I'd wager NRT over FRA not that either is likely.

This is where I disagree, with AA building up an Asia hub out of LAX, what is the demand to PHX? I know I will get argued on this and yet another debate will begin but I just don't see NRT happening... And if it does that would be great and I will take back what I said.

If PHX was a SkyTeam city we would see KLM or AF..
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 184):
I just don't see NRT happening

Oh I don't see it happening either. I just meant NRT would happen before FRA. Neither is likely at all.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:34 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 181):
If LH couldn't make PHX work long-term when it was a Star hub,

That was over 10 years ago. The market is certainly different now. Not saying it would work, but I would question how many onward Star connections that they even would have been making.

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 183):
I'd wager NRT over FRA not that either is likely.

Agreed.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 184):
This is where I disagree, with AA building up an Asia hub out of LAX, what is the demand to PHX?

A Oneworld flight to capture PHX-Asia O&D connections over NRT could work regardless of LAX. No one has tried it so it is a bit more difficult to say it is impossible. The potential is there however PHX-NRT is not at the top of the priority list.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:16 pm

For LH, the fact that PHX is not longer a Star hub is less relevant than the fact that they don't operate an appropriate aircraft for the route, and it seems they won't for the foreseeable future. They'd need a 787-8/9 to make this work, but even then, there'd be more appropriate uses in their system than PHX. BA existed profitably here for more than a decade before this became a OW hub, so there's no reason LH couldn't do the same if it weren't for the lack of suitable aircraft.

I just don't see the demand to Asia. I know some will disagree, and I respect that, I just don't see where a consistent stream of passengers would come from that isn't simply hub feed. If the city can't augment a substantial portion of a flight with O&D, then the flight won't work.
 
wn676
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 187):
I just don't see the demand to Asia. I know some will disagree, and I respect that, I just don't see where a consistent stream of passengers would come from that isn't simply hub feed. If the city can't augment a substantial portion of a flight with O&D, then the flight won't work.

I remember when that Brookings report was published that the entire Asia-Pacific region accounted for ~250 PDEW. Europe accounted for over 500 PDEW. Of course that was 2011 data, but it still illustrates a point; for a PHX-Asia flight to work, you'd have to capture most if not all of that traffic that's currently connecting over hubs like LAX and SFO. Market stimulation will help, but that's still a big gap to make up. Connections over PHX would probably be negligible too owing to network and geographical limitations; AA is already pushing these connecting flows over DFW and LAX, the latter which will only likely grow in terms of connectivity, and PHX doesn't add much here that they can't do. Outside of AA, I don't see many people using PHX to make an interline connection when you have just about every non-stop you could realistically make from the U.S. to Asia right down the road at LAX.

But if someone wants to try, hey, I'm not complaining!
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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KGRB
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 181):
If LH couldn't make PHX work long-term when it was a Star hub, there'sno way they could with it now being a oneworld hub.

PHX wasn't a Star hub when Lufthansa operated the route. It was flown between 2001 and 2004, before America West and US Airways merged and PHX was a US outstation.
First flight: NW DC-10 MKE-MSP December 1996
Most recent flight: DL/OO CRJ-900 ATL-GRB April 2019
 
redflyer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 pm

I would think LH has the capability to return to PHX. It was previously using A340's, which they still have in their fleet. There's a huge expat community in AZ, not to mention large business ties. I think the market might be there; if not now then certainly in the near future.

[Edited 2015-06-02 14:07:42]
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:06 pm

In regards to international expansion, why do they never look to South America? It seems with our large population of Spanish speakers (not all are form Mexico) that there could be a demand to South America.

In regards to LH, I thought a lot of their problem was the improper AC for the route. Could we see AB fly to PHX with a 330 as a alternative to LH? AB is also a member of Oneworld so they have the option with code sharing.

As far as Japan, I really do not see it. It seems that if a visitor to/from Japan wants to come to Arizona they simply do that after they tour the Southern California attractions.

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 182):
>TC//LIH
TN15DECPHXLIH/A+YY/FN -TC-
LIH LIHUE.USHI 15DEC15 22DEC15
1 US 684 X3 PHX 4 LIH 1133 1517 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:44
2 US 672 X3 PHX 4 LIH 1450 1830 0 17DEC15 22DEC15 757 6:40
NO MORE FLIGHTS 15DEC15 TO 22DEC15

Thanks for the information..... WOW, they have two flights to LIH. This actually surprises me as it seems as Kauai is often not the most popular island unlike Oahu and Maui.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 190):
The planes' surveillance equipment is generally used without a judge's approval

AFAIK, the government doesn't need a warrant to video record from a public place, as there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public areas.

However, monitoring cellphone activity is a different thing.

Quoting redflyer (Reply 190):
It also shields the identity of the aircraft so that suspects on the ground don't know they're being watched by the FBI".

Only the stupidest of suspects would think that an aircraft doing donuts over them was doing something other than watching them. They might not be able to trace the plane to the FBI, but cops are cops. If someone is smart enough to find an airplane's flight path, they've probably heard the term "front company", if they aren't operating one themselves.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
aztrainer
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 175):
Compass only operates for DL and AA. The UA 175 operators are Mesa, Skywest and Shuttle America.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. What planes are they flying for AA?
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 193):
Thanks for clearing that up for me. What planes are they flying for AA?

E175
 
alasizon
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:08 am

For those who have not heard yet, OO will be losing their CR9s based in Phoenix in the middle of August. They will be replaced from 200s from LAX which will also replace the existing 200s.

The 900s are going to Delta.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:21 am

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 195):

So all the -900s with the fairly recently retrofitted cabins will soon be replaced by -200s? Sweet, at least there is still the YV -900s. That's a pretty significant capacity cut on the RJ side, particularly when it comes to the elimination of a lot of premium seats. Hopefully at least some of these will be replaced with 175s in the not-too-distant future. At least it's happening at the end of the summer...the -200s are underpowered pieces of crap and they massively struggle to get out of PHX when the heat really cranks up. It's been a couple of years since they've been grounded due to heat, but it's a major inconvenience when they are.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 196):

Makes me wonder if they are going to upgauge capacity on routes with 3-5 CR9s to 1-2 319s.

Anyone know how many CR9s were being operated for AA by Skywest?
 
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cageyjames
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 197):
Anyone know how many CR9s were being operated for AA by Skywest?

You mean YV? There are 16 being operated last I saw. There are 12 CR2s by OO right now.
 
apodino
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RE: Phoenix Arizona Aviation Thread Part 13

Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:43 pm

What do you guys make of the City lawsuit against the FAA over the new RNAV flight paths? To me it sounds like some NIMBYs just want to make noise (pun intended).

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