XT6Wagon
Posts: 2725
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 44):
It would be quite the sight to see AF park the Toulouse Goose. Im sure Airbus doesn't want to see global carriers like AF parking their flagship plane.

No way that would happen. AF would fly them till they sold or leased if they no longer had a need for the A380. You think a route loses money with a A380 on it? Imagine how it performs paying for an A380 thats parked and another plane to fly it.
 
astuteman
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting IslandRob (Reply 31):
Now, now, there's no call for turning this into another A380 bashfest. -ir

Only got myself to blame there haven't I, IR?      

So much for tongue-in-cheek comments

Rgds
 
joeman
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:06 am

Lucky for US airlines that there are no such things as prestige routes if they involve their heavily relied on megahubs and every route connecting all of them and the largest domestic markets such as JFK-LAX and every international route extending from a remaining hub simply print money according to so many a.netters especially during the consolidation of hubs away from places like MEM, CLE, PIT and STL.
 
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IslandRob
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:04 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 51):
Only got myself to blame there haven't I, IR?

So much for tongue-in-cheek comments

Yes, you should have known better than to jab the beehive, even in jest.

Sometimes, when your tongue is in you cheek, you just gotta bite it. -ir

PS We all know the bees would have eventually swarmed, with or without your prodding.
If you wrote me off, I'd understand it
'Cause I've been on some other planet
So come pick me up, I've landed
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2500
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 50):
You think a route loses money with a A380 on it? Imagine how it performs paying for an A380 thats parked and another plane to fly it.

The costs of parking an A380 or any aircraft for that matter is not assigned to one particular route. Said costs would be factored into the carriers overall costs.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Egerton
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:20 am

The scene: A teaching hospital, the financial wing, acute ward, daily round of the senior medics.
The players: The Irish Surgeon General, his assistants and trainees, a lacky known as an Analyst (can be pronounced in alternative ways).
The patient: Whose name cannot be given for reasons of patient confidentiality.

The white coated party approach the bed of the patent. The Notes at the foot of the bed suggest the symptoms are:

1. Hereditary issues arising from a deep trauma in 1789
2. Obesity
3. Diabetes
4. Resulting in Peripheral Neuropathy (loss of feeling in lower limbs with consequential damage)
5. High risk of patient requiring amputation.

The Analyst raises a question in obscure financial-medical language "I'm conscious that **** for example continues to print very weak LatAm RASK, albeit its revenue is also declining on flattish capacity, in the first quarter at least. It makes me think about whether Euro or even LatAm competitors are reacting to Iberia trying to recovery share which might mean you won't have it all your own way over the next X amount of quarters. So interested on any perspectives on what's going on there?"

Surgeon General Willie Walsh (for it is he) raises an eyebrow.

"Okay, Neil, on LatAm, **** just can't. Look at their performance in their first quarter. That's an airline that will struggle to compete with Iberia. So anything they try to do to compete with Iberia on the South Atlantic with Iberia's new product, with the cost base that they have, is going to be a disaster for ****."

Mutterings of agreement and deep frowns from less senior financial-medical personages - along the lines of **** will be dead if no amputation takes place soon. We need to warn the next of kin.

See: IAG Presentations, Q1 2015 Results Conference Call Transcript

[Edited 2015-07-17 01:23:11]

[Edited 2015-07-17 01:24:33]
 
behramjee
Posts: 4980
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:38 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 47):
50%? AF seems to be doing well. I talked to someone from Turkish and he said TK loses money on the majority of long-haul routes. The route to Brazil is a money sinkhole.

your statement on TK is 100% accurate but in their case their rather large losses incurred on long haul are subsidized by their profits on regional EU/Central Asia/Middle East and North Africa bound flights. The same concept holds true for Ethiopian Airlines whose majority of long haul routes are not profitable but are sustained with the high profits made on their high yielding intra-Africa and some GCC bound flights (JED/RUH/KWI in particular).
 
TYCOON
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:38 am

Quoting Egerton (Reply 55):

As a very frequent flyer between Europe and LatAm, in the front of the cabin, there is no comparison between the level of service on AF to the poor on-the-ground and in-the-air service of Iberia.
OK, part of IB's fleet have the new business class, as AF (I believe GRU now receives the new business class, with other destinations to follow), but the rest is really atrocious for the business road warrior.
I just flew IB's new business class between GIG-MAD (flight delayed by 21 hours!) which is an improvement, but not as nice as AF's which I flew just last week CDG-JFK.
Customer service at IB is rock bottom, actually both BA and IB customer service are the worst of the bunch in my view. I could write a lengthy essay on the poor customer service I received and continue to receive from both these airlines (particularly IB) due to two cancelled flights in the same month, lost luggage, non credited frequent flyer mileage for a business class fare, failure to reimburse airport tax on a cancelled ticket with a baseless nonsensical argument which once pointed out they begrudgingly agreed to reimburse - 2 months later!!!, and I could go on and on.
I have now stopped all personal and corporate travel with BA/IB (and I am an Executive Club Gold cardholder) until these issues are resolved which will hopefully be before 2020.
That level of customer service may be OK for a low-yielding crowd, but should be unacceptable for anyone... particularly those sitting in the front.
 
Egerton
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 57):
That level of customer service may be OK for a low-yielding crowd, but should be unacceptable for anyone... particularly those sitting in the front.

Agreed. I am not a shareholder of any airline, nor am I connected with any. I merely observe and comment on vital signs.

My wife had a bad experience with IB prior to IAG, more recently our daughter has had good experiences, all in steerage.

There is a lot to be said for routing LHR - YYZ - LATAM if this fits, two shorter flights, no US immigration.
 
Marvinhsv
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:55 pm

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 49):
IS flying all the way from CDG to Lima, Santiago and Buenos Aires nonstop profitable.

The routes are all well covered with Alitalia, Iberia, British Airways, KLM, Air Europa and Lufthansa flying there but the average price is pretty high. Compared to a flight to LAX which is just about 2-3h shorter I've never seen fares any lower than 800-850€. LAX often goes for 550€.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: AF: Only 50% Of Long-haul Routes Are Profitable

Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 47):
I talked to someone from Turkish and he said TK loses money on the majority of long-haul routes. The route to Brazil is a money sinkhole

Well, their bottom line was over US $800 million in the black in 2014. So they must be doing something good !
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!

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