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Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:52 pm

There are a number of comments on twitter about Air Baltic possibly acquiring the Sukhoi Superjet.

Does anyone know more? I understand that the Latvian Government and a German investor have agreed a plan to invest more in the carrier.

Further expansion on the card?
 
CRJ900
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:39 pm

They are to be the first operator of the CSeries CS300 in 2016 as they will replace the B737-300. They also have brand new Q400. Perhaps they need some capacity between 76 and 148 seats.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 1):
They are to be the first operator of the CSeries CS300 in 2016 as they will replace the B737-300. They also have brand new Q400. Perhaps they need some capacity between 76 and 148 seats.

The CS100 would seem to be the more logical choice to fill that size gap. For BBD's sake, I hope that they aren't canceling the CS order in favor of the SSJ.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:54 pm

Would be strange if a small airline like Air Baltic decided to add yet another fleet type. I agree with redzeppelin about CS100 making more sense. But the SSJ is probably 1/3 the acquisition cost.
 
mildaiv
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:23 am

CS100 has more range than SSJ. If Air Baltic doesn't need that range, why buy more expansive plane? Fuel saving must be low on short hopes.
 
Wayfarer515
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:56 am

According to the chatter in several forums, the German investor has close ties to the Russian government and to Russian banks, and Air Baltic´s debts are as high as Mount Everest. After what happened to Estonian Air, there is little interest from the government to save the airline, even if they wanted to the EU would certainly intervene as well.

So there is nobody out there interested in investing in Air Baltic with except of this German guy, but it comes with the condition to acquire the SSJ100. So you can also write off another C-series order as I don't think it will happen, either they let this guy come in with the Russian metal or Air Baltic will surely go Estonian Air's way pretty soon.

BTW, the Latvian politicians are fuming over this deal, but since the government cannot directly intervene in these affairs anymore they have no option but to accept this deal or let the airline disappear.

Local MEP's fuming about this:
http://www.delfi.lv/biznes/bizopinio...e-pyatno-dlya-latvii.d?id=46748479

Air Baltic chairman saying the deal with Sukhoi will go through, even if it is politically sensitive, it also seems to hint the C-series order is dead in the water:

http://www.delfi.lv/biznes/bnews/air...konomicheski-vygodna.d?id=46742333
 
columba
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:50 am

Don´t believe it. They already have a contract with Bombardier and I believe it would be very expensive for them to get out only for a new model.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
SCQ83
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:23 am

So I was actually right when I said that the German investor (I guess the same behind VLM) had "ties" with Russian investors and the Russian government.

Now everything starts to make sense....
 
RIX
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:51 pm

I just looked through the news on delfi (links from Reply 5) and:

- didn't see anything about saving the airline from debt but rather just growing;
- the German investor said that he is in disregard SSJ purchase;
- CS300 order is not discussed at all - it's all about 100 seater order, where Bombardier, Embraer and Sukhoi are the contenders, with the latter "offering much better conditions". The airline chairman says, buying Russian metal may be "sensitive" but they look rather at the economy. Even as they presume some people may refuse to fly on them.

(Correct me somebody if I missed or misread something, as I'm in the office right now).
 
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Polot
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
Don´t believe it. They already have a contract with Bombardier and I believe it would be very expensive for them to get out only for a new model.

Well the CS300 was also suppose to be entering service sometime in 2014 when AirBaltic signed up for the jet in 2012...

Quoting RIX (Reply 8):
- didn't see anything about saving the airline from debt but rather just growing;

The second link talks extensively about trying to get 132 million euros from the state and a private investor, which obviously means they are struggling. That is a lot of money for a rather small carrier.
 
RIX
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:19 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 9):
That is a lot of money for a rather small carrier.

Very well may be, and that 132M is mentioned in other related articles. Still, saving the airline is not mentioned anywhere (not claiming here it may not be the case). Nor is there anything about CS300.
 
traveler_7
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:46 pm

As far as I remember Baltic does generate small profit, but they want to replace 737s with smaller planes to increase fuel efficiency. And to do this they need more funds. Private investor is supposed to invest only part of the funds needed to get the new metal. The second part should be invested by the Latvian state. The latest means voting in parliament. Finally if Latvian state will provide the funds, I wonder how EU will react.
 
bx737
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting traveler_7 (Reply 11):

As far as I am aware (and I am open to correction) the EU has no problem with a government investing in a profitable state owned carrier. The problems have arisen when governments invest in the loss making state owned airline.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:00 am

If Air Baltic need extra capacity, why not lease the three ex-Estonian CRJ900 with 88 seats. Pilots and mechanics are still pretty close in TLL and they are available now plus they have BBD in the system already.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
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Polot
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting bx737 (Reply 12):

Governments can invest in money losing carriers (see Poland and LOT), but they can't frequently dole money out, give money at special rates unfair to competitors, and the airline must have a viable restructuring plan back to profitability that doesn't restrict competition. If governments don't follow that it is illegal (e.g. Estonian and Malev), but no problems if they do (LOT).
 
Dash9
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:46 pm

CS100 P1 aircraft is currently on its Atlantic crossing towards Europe. It will pe presented in Riga on 2015-11-27 by Air Baltic CEO Martin Gauss.

Source: http://www.travelandtourworld.com/ne..._source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Doesn't feel like an airline about to ditch its order

-Dash9
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:54 pm

Air Baltic is supposed to be the CS300 launch customer.

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
Air Baltic chairman saying the deal with Sukhoi will go through, even if it is politically sensitive, it also seems to hint the C-series order is dead in the water:

I'm not sure how a SSJ100 order would end the CSeries order, the CS300 is significant larger than the Sukhoi jet and will play a different role in the fleet.

[Edited 2015-11-25 07:55:30]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
RIX
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):

I'm not sure how a SSJ100 order would end the CSeries order...

Like I said, that link says Sukhoi looks the best option for 100 seater. Nothing is said about CS300 there, let alone "dead in water".
 
Dash9
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting RIX (Reply 17):
Nothing is said about CS300 there, let alone "dead in water".

My bad I should have quotted this comment that I was answering to:

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
So there is nobody out there interested in investing in Air Baltic with except of this German guy, but it comes with the condition to acquire the SSJ100. So you can also write off another C-series order as I don't think it will happen

I would be very surprised if a small airline like Air Baltic would get another new type such as the SSJ for its 100 seats needs since the CS100 is available. Stikking with Cseries would enable savings on training, parts, ground equipments, paperwork, single pool of pilots and techs, etc, etc. Both would have same range so they could growth a market from CS100 to CS300 easily. Yes the CS100 is more costly than the SSJ but I doubt it justify a new type factoring all the above and the fact the Cseries has a more modern powerplant that should make up for its extra weight and acqusition cost over time.

-Dash9
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:34 pm

The SSJ would seriously struggle to replace the 737 on some longer routes, I can't see how it would be a viable option compared with the C-Series.

Either they are planning some trimming of their network, or this is just speculation.


Dan  
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RIX
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 18):

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
So there is nobody out there interested in investing in Air Baltic with except of this German guy, but it comes with the condition to acquire the SSJ100.

He was wrong in that one too - one of the links explicitly stated, the "German guy" did not have any SSJ conditions.

[Edited 2015-11-25 09:10:33]
 
YXXMIKE
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:56 pm

Didn't Air Baltic firm up their orders already though or am I missing something? Also this is happening on Friday (http://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/airbaltic-invitation-bombardier-c-series-presentation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter) and the recent commitment by Air Baltic to be the CS300 launch customer I'm going to call this one BS.
 
art
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 15):
CS100 P1 aircraft is currently on its Atlantic crossing towards Europe. It will pe presented in Riga on 2015-11-27 by Air Baltic CEO Martin Gauss.

I take it that airBaltic has already paid for the frame / has the funds to buy the frame / can sell it and lease back. Why else arrange a handover ceremony?

One thing - can the aircraft be used for pax flights? It has not received certification yet as far as I can make out.
 
diverted
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting art (Reply 22):
take it that airBaltic has already paid for the frame / has the funds to buy the frame / can sell it and lease back. Why else arrange a handover ceremony?

One thing - can the aircraft be used for pax flights? It has not received certification yet as far as I can make out.

It's just going over to be presented, not handed over. Still a ways to go before they're in airline fleets
 
Wayfarer515
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:03 am

Quoting RIX (Reply 20):

Quoting Dash9 (Reply 18):

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 5):
So there is nobody out there interested in investing in Air Baltic with except of this German guy, but it comes with the condition to acquire the SSJ100.

He was wrong in that one too - one of the links explicitly stated, the "German guy" did not have any SSJ conditions.

You are interpreting it in the wrong way, it is the Latvian government who isn't putting any specific aicraft type or origin as a condition to the new investor, not the other way around. The Russian jets are coming to Air Baltic if the investment deal goes through, and it will be performed through SJI and not directly by Sukhoi in order to avoid any potential sanctions.

BR.
 
columba
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:29 pm

CSeries just landed in Riga to visit Air Baltic - Tweet from Air Baltic:

"We're thrilled to welcome the new #CSeries in @riga_airport! Exciting day ahead of us, stay tuned! #SpotTheCSeries! "
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
RIX
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting Wayfarer515 (Reply 24):
You are interpreting it in the wrong way, it is the Latvian government who isn't putting any specific aicraft type or origin as a condition to the new investor,

I was refering to "the potential investor himself" who said that his investments to airBaltic do not depend on whether or not the airline will acquire specific airplanes. Looks like it's about private investor, not the government.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air Baltic Acquiring SSJ?

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:22 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.

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