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A332DTW
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Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:44 am

For those of you who enjoyed spectacular high quality footage from inside a 737 flight deck, you might know about 737Channel on Youtube. The channel had dozens of videos, full with instrument and approach charts overlays and moving maps. Not only were the videos entertaining, they were a great learning tool for interpreting charts and scanning instrument displays.

It's been so long since I had a notification for a new video (I'm a subscriber), that I decided to take look and see what's going on. To my disappointment, all of 737Channel's videos were gone. Under the discussion section read the following...

Quote:
Once again, I would like to thank you all for your support and for the many messages you sent me over the last few days. "What happened", you ask. The answer is simple: company would not approve the use of cameras in the flight deck. As a result, recording has stopped, Episode 27 will not be released, and all previous episodes will remain private. The channel will feature new aviation content soon, but this content will not include flight deck images. I appreciate your understanding. Aviation continues to be my passion. I hope it will continue to be yours.

So my question is really simple. When airlines disapprove the use of cameras in the flight deck (even when cameras are on a support and not handheld), what is the sole reason behind that decision?
 
fly727
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:52 am

I'm thinking liability and exception of responsibilities as the real reason behind it. It could also be a technical issue or a techno-legal thing such as the certification of the recording equipment and their fixtures. Almost everything fixed, mounted or used on a flight deck has to have or undergo certification or approval.

RM  
 
doug_or
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:53 am

Personal electronic device use is banned in the flight deck at my airline. I assume it the same at others?
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 464
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:16 am

Yep, spoilsports and faceless people taking over management positions everywhere   More and more things are not allowed anymore these days...
 
A332DTW
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:35 am

Quoting fly727 (Reply 1):
Almost everything fixed, mounted or used on a flight deck has to have or undergo certification or approval.

Never really thought of it in that sense. So I assume those iPad mounts undergo some type of approval process as well.

I certainly don't intend to be misunderstood. Safety should of course be paramount to anything else. However, with the recent decision to allow the use of personal devices in the cabin, I figured airline policies on cameras in the flight deck would be loosened a bit.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:36 am

Makes sense really. Only a matter of time before a pilot gets distracted by setting up his camera, and makes an error of some kind, in operation.
 
A332DTW
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Makes sense really. Only a matter of time before a pilot gets distracted by setting up his camera, and makes an error of some kind, in operation.

I see your point. Though a responsible pilot wouldn't fiddle around with setting up a camera at the start of his duties, rather allow ample time prior to the start of the flight. At least one would think.
 
migair54
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:52 am

One of the problems with the video is that maybe some of the content is not adequate or may not be good for the airline or pilots, some mistakes in procedures, or opinions, or any other thing that the PR department don't want to be public, if you really like that kind of videos I can recommend you World Air Routes, they are very professional, specially the newer ones and they are excellent quality and good to watch, i personally have few of them and I like them a lot.


Airline management are always looking for borders, the funny part is that they keep sending emails and stuff like that to say this is not allowed, this also, this also.... then when they are on board, they ask to speak to the captain to see if they can fly in the cockpit, when it's themselves who sent an email saying that's not allow under any circumstance.

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 4):
Never really thought of it in that sense. So I assume those iPad mounts undergo some type of approval process as well.

Yes, they are, electronic flight bag is approve by the aviation authority and the installation is being tested and certified by all the usual suspects. But it is very helpful and it's a great step forward to replace all the 30kgs of documents we keep in the flight deck using space and accumulating dust.

Quoting doug_or (Reply 2):
Personal electronic device use is banned in the flight deck at my airline. I assume it the same at others?

Most of the airlines.
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1933
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Only a matter of time before a pilot gets distracted by setting up his camera, and makes an error of some kind, in operation.


Already happened:

RAF A330 Voyager camera incident
http://news.aviation-safety.net/2014...us-a330-loss-of-altitude-incident/
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:16 am

Anyone who doubts the wisdom and logic in the insistence that the installation of any devices in the flight deck should checked and certified - and to that end casual use of camera equipment should be either restricted or dealt with extremely cautiously - should read the detail of the incident on an RAF Airbus A330 a while back. The implications of a similar incident happening on an airline flight would be very significant:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...saved-voyager-inquiry-find-410491/

[Edited 2015-12-29 01:16:49]
 
aviationaware
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:52 am

Just some idiotic law practitioner (of which there are about ten times as many as would be necessary) wasting other peoples time again.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:36 am

I know one airline that wants all pictures taken of their aircraft (inside or outside) censored by their PR departement first.

Jan
 
migair54
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
I know one airline that wants all pictures taken of their aircraft (inside or outside) censored by their PR departement first.

I don't know if you are talking about EY, but EY and QR have a very strict policy for employees and social media about pics in planes, of planes or in uniform, Actually EY even has some sites blocked to talk about them under lawsuit threats because they don't want any type of bad publicity.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:17 pm

I remember the FAA handing out fines to I think it was Horizon for someone video taping the flight deck. I think at least in the US filming in the flight deck has to be approved by both the FAA and airline/operator.
 
apfpilot
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:58 pm

There is also the question of how the other pilot might feel. I know that ALPA has opposed having Cockpit Video Recorders for years.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:51 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 14):
There is also the question of how the other pilot might feel.

Of course but I assume that most pilots will ask the other if it is ok.

Regarding cameras in cockpit in general I think that a complete ban might be a little exaggerated but
perhaps some regulations/policies that is somewhere between a complete ban and "allow anything"
would be possible. Perhaps something like this:

*All involved pilots on each particular flight need to be asked and approve of the use of a camera.
*Only fixed positions/pre-approved camera potions.
*Camera need to be firmly secured.

and etcetera.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 4):
Never really thought of it in that sense. So I assume those iPad mounts undergo some type of approval process as well.

I thought of the same thing. Both the tablet and mounts must go through some certification including placement where it will not interfere with the safe operation of the aircraft. I was going to use the example of the A330 tanker flight but I see that it has been talked about.

I have seen other channels(including companies who sell cockpit videos), and it depends on the airline and consent from the individuals who will be recorded. I watch one from someone who is a captain on different models of the Citation his company operates as well as other flights he does in other aircraft. I understand the safety impact and it depends on the company.
 
A332DTW
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
if you really like that kind of videos I can recommend you World Air Routes, they are very professional, specially the newer ones and they are excellent quality and good to watch, i personally have few of them and I like them a lot

Thanks for the recommendation!


Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 9):

So as the captain moved his seat forward, he jammed the camera into the sidestick. I assume the camera was not secured to a mount? I'm trying to picture where the camera jammed on the sidestick. If it was small enough, I suppose it could have pressed inside the bellows.



On an unrelated note, what a perfect example of the autopilot and Airbus's self-protection measures being put to good use.

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 15):
*All involved pilots on each particular flight need to be asked and approve of the use of a camera.
*Only fixed positions/pre-approved camera potions.
*Camera need to be firmly secured.

  

With regards to filming of the crew, this channel in particular did not have views of the crew. The scenes shown were that of the view outside and the instrument panel only.
 
apfpilot
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 17):
With regards to filming of the crew, this channel in particular did not have views of the crew. The scenes shown were that of the view outside and the instrument panel only.

Was there Audio?
 
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longhauler
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 17):
So as the captain moved his seat forward, he jammed the camera into the sidestick. I assume the camera was not secured to a mount? I'm trying to picture where the camera jammed on the sidestick. If it was small enough, I suppose it could have pressed inside the bellows.

It was a digital SLR, so it was a significant size. What is not showing is the armrest, which is attached to the seat, and ... also a significant size. When down, it would sit just behind the sidestick abeam the microphone mount. (black in that picture).

Aparently, the Captain's camera was on the level area directly behind the sidestick. When he moved his seat forward, the armrest and thus the camera pushed against the sidestick and became wedged in that area, the autopilot disconnected (as will happen when the sidestick is pushed) commanding a nose down attitude.
 
marktci
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:36 pm

How many people here have an employer that would be comfortable with them filming their workday with a personal camera? I know mine wouldn't.
 
chrisair
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:54 pm

Bummer. The 737Channel had some excellent videos--whomever put those together did a phenomenal job with the editing, sound, video and everything else.

I always thought it was a collection of videos from various sources, not just one (or two) pilots at the same company.

In any event, if you look on Youtube, there are dozens of excellent quality cockpit videos from people not associated with World Air Routes, Justplanes or other "professional" companies.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 6):
Though a responsible pilot wouldn't fiddle around with setting up a camera at the start of his duties, rather allow ample time prior to the start of the flight. At least one would think.

One would hope. But as shown below, it only takes that one asshole:

Quoting gct64 (Reply 8):
Already happened:
RAF A330 Voyager camera incident
http://news.aviation-safety.net/2014...dent/

 
 
A332DTW
Topic Author
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 18):
Was there Audio?

There was audio. The airline's call sign was removed on all radio calls, however. Though I'm pretty sure the airline was WestJet based on the destinations to and from Canada.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 19):
It was a digital SLR, so it was a significant size. What is not showing is the armrest, which is attached to the seat, and ... also a significant size. When down, it would sit just behind the sidestick abeam the microphone mount. (black in that picture).

Ok, I can see that. There's quite a few videos with views from that angle, showing movements of the sidestick. Proper planning goes a long way.
 
apfpilot
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RE: Use Of Cameras In The Flight Deck

Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 23):
There was audio.

That also could be the issue. The other crew members may not have wanted to be recorded via voice either.

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