mjoelnir
Topic Author
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:31 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...ful-policy-probl-article-1.2656379

Pulling passengers for "safety", too heavy airplane, and than filling up with other pax?
 
OB1504
Posts: 3680
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:14 pm

Sounds like a regional jet had a weight restriction that was later lifted due to improving weather.

By by all means, please continue on with your blind hatred of US carriers. I agree with you that it would've been vastly preferable for the aircraft to attempt to depart overloaded. Safety is overrated.
 
NickLAX
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:48 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:24 pm

This must be one inept regional - I've seen regionals controls boarding to cover weight and balance and ask for shift of pax rows used but NOT de-boarding. I'm questioning how real this is - e..g were folks de-boarded with others coming on? I've seen de-boarding rarely but re-boarding NEVER

[Edited 2016-06-01 14:27:07]
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:25 pm

typical they think they know it all aircraft had a max weight due to weather so they can bump 10 200LB passengers or bump 20 100LB passengers which amount is it easier to rebook Sam Champion
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5847
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:33 pm

Informed people won't rely on cable TV weathermen and the NY Daily News for aviation analysis.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:19 pm

This happens everyday on regionals and even on mainline. No news here. Weight restrictions for weather is nothing new.

I've seen instances where every degree rise in temperature can affect the takeoff weight of flight and result in pulling passengers off and by the time you do that, the themperature changes it all up again.
 
mjoelnir
Topic Author
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:25 pm

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 5):
This happens everyday on regionals and even on mainline. No news here. Weight restrictions for weather is nothing new.

So you deboard some and than board others? Very good to know that it is happening on all regionals and even on mainline.
 
crj900lr
Posts: 453
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:44 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:34 pm

Cant wait t see Sam Champion on AMHQ tomorrow to see if he says anything. Oh wait, nevermind. How that gig work out for you Sammy?
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:21 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 3):
typical they think they know it all aircraft had a max weight due to weather so they can bump 10 200LB passengers or bump 20 100LB passengers which amount is it easier to rebook Sam Champion

Every adult passenger is the same weight as far as the airline is concerned, so there's no benefit to swapping them unless you're going to replace an adult with a child.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:22 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 6):
So you deboard some and than board others? Very good to know that it is happening on all regionals and even on mainline.

It's hard to tell just based on the details of the article, but in some cases you are oversold and then become weight restricted. You pull your passengers off the plane. Then you are told you can put someone back on. If you have, for example, an ExPlat without a seat (or disabled pax, etc), it may be deemed necessary to give them a seat over the people you pulled off. I know that is an extreme, but may be the case here.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:23 am

I'm sure this guy know's more about plan safety then AA. If you fly a lot you will know things happen and mistakes happen and the process of flying is not always smooth. Flight safety should not be something you underestimate. This grandstanding gets old. No where in the article was there any real journalism.
 
User avatar
BN727227Ultra
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:15 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:30 am

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 7):
Oh wait, nevermind. How that gig work out for you Sammy?

(snort!)  
 
PDX88
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:17 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:36 am

This is the world we live in, where everyone feels the need to complain about something without any knowledge or information of what they're complaining about. No one bothers to ask why something is happening, rather just attack it cluelessly.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a regional jet had a weight restriction that was later lifted due to improving weather.

Bingo, have had this happen several times over the last few years. All it probably would've taken was for Sam Champion to ask a gate agent what was going on, but instead he threw a Twitter temper tantrum that made him looks like a moron.
 
RamblinMan
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:50 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 1):
continue on with your blind hatred of US carriers
Quoting PDX88 (Reply 12):
without any knowledge or information of what they're complaining about

So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation. Maybe if the company in question didn't already have such a reputation for treating their customers like crap then we could all take their word for it, but sadly I am automatically skeptical of anything an airline employee tells me.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:11 pm

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 9):
It's hard to tell just based on the details of the article, but in some cases you are oversold and then become weight restricted. You pull your passengers off the plane. Then you are told you can put someone back on. If you have, for example, an ExPlat without a seat (or disabled pax, etc), it may be deemed necessary to give them a seat over the people you pulled off. I know that is an extreme, but may be the case here

Thank you for the hint. Next gen SOP would include "in case of overbooking CSR should warm up thermometer with a hand to claim weather-related offload, and then apply some ice to lift restriction and board high status pax"
 
AA94
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:12 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation. Maybe if the company in question didn't already have such a reputation for treating their customers like crap then we could all take their word for it, but sadly I am automatically skeptical of anything an airline employee tells me.

We don't even know what the situation was. All we have is the hearsay observation of one passenger, and the decidedly uninformed analysis(?) of a tabloid newspaper. It's like everyone who has ever flown more than once in their life is suddenly an expert on airline operations, just like everyone on my Facebook news feed is also a zoo architect and animal behavioralist.

 
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2263
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:14 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation. Maybe if the company in question didn't already have such a reputation for treating their customers like crap then we could all take their word for it, but sadly I am automatically skeptical of anything an airline employee tells me.

The pax that were offloaded were Non-Revs for all we know.

I have seen DL regionals remove seated non-revs on weight restricted flights and then replace them with paying pax.

We just don't have enough information for a rational discussion.
 
mjoelnir
Topic Author
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:23 pm

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 12):
Bingo, have had this happen several times over the last few years. All it probably would've taken was for Sam Champion to ask a gate agent what was going on, but instead he threw a Twitter temper tantrum that made him looks like a moron

No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again. And it is very clear why the airline did not want to talk about it.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3425
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:29 pm

Quoting NickLAX (Reply 2):
This must be one inept regional - I've seen regionals controls boarding to cover weight and balance and ask for shift of pax rows used but NOT de-boarding. I'm questioning how real this is - e..g were folks de-boarded with others coming on? I've seen de-boarding rarely but re-boarding NEVER

I will give you an example, Say it is 1154z and information Alpha is current and you are doing you takeoff data and everything looks great for a MGTOW departure. Two minutes later, information Bravo is now current, and it is three degrees warmer. Now your takeoff data isn't valid because you did a new runway analysis, and you can't perform a legal departure. Time to bump passengers. So you kick four adults off (760 lbs) because you need the weight. A couple minutes later, dispatch calls, and can get you a reroute that saves 700 lbs of gas, or a speci comes out for the METAR that allows you to take the weight again. Your deplaned pax aren't in the gate, so you take others that are up there who know that you don't leave the gate until the airplane leaves the gate. Just one scenario, but it happens a lot.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9620
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:35 pm

Quoting AA94 (Reply 15):
We don't even know what the situation was. All we have is the hearsay observation of one passenger,

Because the employees would always be quick to out an embarrassing airline policy that would result in their jobs ending.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again. And it is very clear why the airline did not want to talk about it.

If that were the case then AA was dumb for not immediately tweeting "those were employees making room for paying passengers". The fact they didn't do that probably means it wasn't the case.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:39 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 18):

I will give you an example, Say it is 1154z and information Alpha is current and you are doing you takeoff data and everything looks great for a MGTOW departure. Two minutes later, information Bravo is now current, and it is three degrees warmer. Now your takeoff data isn't valid because you did a new runway analysis, and you can't perform a legal departure. Time to bump passengers. So you kick four adults off (760 lbs) because you need the weight. A couple minutes later, dispatch calls, and can get you a reroute that saves 700 lbs of gas, or a speci comes out for the METAR that allows you to take the weight again. Your deplaned pax aren't in the gate, so you take others that are up there who know that you don't leave the gate until the airplane leaves the gate. Just one scenario, but it happens a lot.

Only problem is that this presents a HUGE opportunity for abuse. Call dispatch to tweak the route for higher burn. Unload low fare pax, send them to customer service desk in another terminal for rebook. Call dispatch to reroute back. Board patiently waiting ExPlats.
Can airline like AA do that? No bAAshing, but I wouldn;t be surprised.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:54 pm

OK, some data:
looks like this is the flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...0/history/20160602/0012Z/KPNS/KDFW
ERJ-145 on a 640 mile flight, 7000' runway, evening with 80 F and going down, close to sea level and pressure going up.

Looks like there were some storm cells around resulting in tweaking alternatives; but I have hard time seeing performance limited situation..
 
User avatar
b727fa
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:21 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:04 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
We just don't have enough information for a rational discussion.

When did that ever stop anyone on A.net before? LOL
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5148
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:07 pm

Some of this goes back to the US Air Express crash in CLT about 15 years ago, when it was determined during the investigation that the plane was overweight. So, the FAA increased the weights of passengers, including carry-on bags, for calculating weight and balance.

Since then, the smaller Embrears (135/140/145) have had problems because of MTOW. Depending on flight length and fuel requirements, there have been many, many instances of bumping bags and passengers. My wife used to fly Eagle a lot between ORD and PIT. The bumping of checked bags at PIT was almost routine, especially if there was any weather at ORD that might lead to the flight going into a holding pattern. Add a strong jet stream, and passengers would be bumped.

Once, I was flying ORD-PHX on an MD-80. The day before (in mid January), northern Arizona had severe weather with severe thunderstorm warnings in the Phoenix area and blizzard conditions farther north.

Because Dispatch was anticipating possible holding patterns and the need to divert, the plane was going out fuel heavy. Gate agents were looking for volunteers, because payload was being weight restricted.

Just before boarding, the agent announced that they didn't need volunteers, and that those who had volunteered were going out on that flight. Weather was improving in Phoenix, and the fuel load was reduced, lifting the weight restriction.
 
DualQual
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:11 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 22):

Truest statement ever! Sometimes the motto around here is "Ready, Fire!". Redacting the Aim step is a real time saver.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:23 pm

No. this is clearly a moron who felt he is more important than the people who play by the rules... This guy doesnt know who is above him on the list or how a WR works.

Definitely NOT a news story
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:53 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation.

If anyone is denied boarding, they're getting compensation. So there's no advantage to pulling people off and then putting other people on - you're still going to have to pay compensation to the same number of people.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 20):
Only problem is that this presents a HUGE opportunity for abuse. Call dispatch to tweak the route for higher burn. Unload low fare pax, send them to customer service desk in another terminal for rebook. Call dispatch to reroute back. Board patiently waiting ExPlats.
Can airline like AA do that?

Except the denied boarding priority is designed to ensure that the premium passengers get pulled off the plane last, so they wouldn't be waiting - they'd already be on the plane.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:12 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 26):

Except the denied boarding priority is designed to ensure that the premium passengers get pulled off the plane last, so they wouldn't be waiting - they'd already be on the plane.

Assuming premium pax got assigned seating. Swapping some asshole on cheap 5 month out fare (unfortunately with confirmed seat!) in favor of ExPlat on oversold last minute fare may still make sense.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting kalvado (Reply 27):
Swapping some asshole on cheap 5 month out fare (unfortunately with confirmed seat!) in favor of ExPlat on oversold last minute fare may still make sense.

They'd do that before the flight boarded, not after people got on the plane.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DXTraveler
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 4:31 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:35 pm

So we'll take him to task every time he botches a weather forecast. I say let him rant. He's welcome to put his ignorance on display for the world to see.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
I have seen DL regionals remove seated non-revs on weight restricted flights and then replace them with paying pax.

We just don't have enough information for a rational discussion.

Agreed - had they left the gate area? had they been re-booked already?

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 18):
Your deplaned pax aren't in the gate, so you take others that are up there who know that you don't leave the gate until the airplane leaves the gate. Just one scenario, but it happens a lot.

Unless you are happy to take the comp and free meal (particularly if you have been re-routed on more interesting flights). In which case you get your comp certificate and bolt  
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:02 pm

Quoting AA94 (Reply 15):
We don't even know what the situation was. All we have is the hearsay observation of one passenger, and the decidedly uninformed analysis(?) of a tabloid newspaper. It's like everyone who has ever flown more than once in their life is suddenly an expert on airline operations, just like everyone on my Facebook news feed is also a zoo architect and animal behavioralist.

Yes. But in fairness it applies to us here at a.net as well. The only difference being that while the tabloid pundits are by default siding with passengers, we are by default siding with airlines.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 21):
Looks like there were some storm cells around resulting in tweaking alternatives; but I have hard time seeing performance limited situation..

  

Well done. Some information now available. Of course we still don't know what actually happened in the plane.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:49 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):


They'd do that before the flight boarded, not after people got on the plane.

-Mir

Thanks, good to know the value of "confirmed" reservation...
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation. Maybe if the company in question didn't already have such a reputation for treating their customers like crap then we could all take their word for it, but sadly I am automatically skeptical of anything an airline employee tells me.

The pax that were offloaded were Non-Revs for all we know.

I have seen DL regionals remove seated non-revs on weight restricted flights and then replace them with paying pax.

We just don't have enough information for a rational discussion.

Well put and I think with the limited info a very likely candidate for what happened..
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
mjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 3850 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted Thu Jun 2 2016 07:23:19 your local time (5 hours 58 minutes 9 secs ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 12):
Bingo, have had this happen several times over the last few years. All it probably would've taken was for Sam Champion to ask a gate agent what was going on, but instead he threw a Twitter temper tantrum that made him looks like a moron

No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again. And it is very clear why the airline did not want to talk about it.

Do you fly a lot?
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:26 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again. And it is very clear why the airline did not want to talk about it.

If that were the case then AA was dumb for not immediately tweeting "those were employees making room for paying passengers". The fact they didn't do that probably means it wasn't the case.

Not even close. I wan't them running a airline not chasing every internet rumor. The fact they didn't in now way means that they are guilty has charged. Your way smarter then this post I've followed you for a good while and am surprised you believe.
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1176
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:36 pm

In working for the airlines and later as a passenger I have witnessed pax being removed from flights due to overbooking and then later the same or other pax cleared.


I will give you an example :

WX delays and flight was weight restricted, agent solicited volunteers early on and provided them with DBC. As such they were re accommodated and sent on their way. After continued WX delays , a new flight plan and routing. At last minute determination was made that flight was "good" to take non-revs.
Non-revs lucked out, got in seats that previously belonged to pax who was denied boarding.

What you can't do is be an arm-chair airline ops manager or Monday Morning Quarterback. Things happen that may not make sense to a pax but, its not always (often isn't ) what it seems on face value.

This isn't American's first rodeo. Not the first time they sent a flight out ... They have procedures, they have systems... If I was a gambling man , I would say that whatever was done was done IAW American's established procedures for handling denied boarding and our friend the weatherman just reported what he saw and how he saw it.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:58 pm

Non-rev removal rant is nice.. but wrong.
They called for volunteers - and then went to IDB.
Journalist claims he was targeted for removal - whatever that means. He was not non-rev, that is for sure.
And here is a tween of the person (medical professional) who was removed - and doesn't look like he is non-rev as well:
http://twitter.com/davidtimurmd/status/737869375525556224
 
mjoelnir
Topic Author
Posts: 8515
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting grbauc (Reply 34):
Do you fly a lot?

A lot and often to out of the way places with few connections.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4712
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
Because the employees would always be quick to out an embarrassing airline policy that would result in their jobs ending.

Probably not as quick as a "journalist" making up a story about a non-existent policy that results in more clicks.

Seriously, a "weatherman" is chiding an airline for saying that weather changes? Really? You side with this guy?
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
PDX88
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:17 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:00 pm

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 13):
So would the airline apologists care to explain why, in light of "developing weather," some passengers were de-boarded and then apparently DIFFERENT passengers were sat in their seats? Cause that sounds an awful lot like a bullsh*t excuse to bump folks with confirmed reservations without giving them any compensation. Maybe if the company in question didn't already have such a reputation for treating their customers like crap then we could all take their word for it, but sadly I am automatically skeptical of anything an airline employee tells me.
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again. And it is very clear why the airline did not want to talk about it.

Holy cow guys, you're as bad as the guy in the article. No information about what happened, and there's no excuse?

I've had this happen working as a gate agent a couple times. Flight gets weight restricted by weather, pull 10 or so passengers off, quickly rebook them on another airline, weather hits and delays the flight, when weather clears so does the weight restriction, original 10 passengers aren't at gate since they left on new airline, so board nonrevs waiting at gate.

It's not an ideal situation, but when things are changing by the minute the agents adjust to the situation. Don't say there's no excuse when there's usually a reasonable explanation tho.
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1176
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting kalvado (Reply 37):

Non-rev removal rant is nice.. but wrong.

Kalvado:

I never said or implied in my "rant" as you call it that the example I said was what went down I was only giving an example of a scenario where pax could be removed and then other pax placed back on the flight.

No one can play Monday Morning Quarterback to the scenario as they were not there.
 
B747forever
Posts: 13788
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:06 am

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 40):

Thanks for coming here and explaining how the situation might actually have played out. Unfortunately too many on this website write things as if it is fact without knowing how airline operations actually work.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
rxapple
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:02 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:37 am

I was on a full flight on an AA 737-800 on Sunday, and they were oversold due to another cancellation. The flight was from DFW-TUL and they kept saying they had a weight restriction. I couldn't figure out why in the world a 737 on a short flight would have a wait restriction....
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:11 am

Quoting kalvado (Reply 32):
Thanks, good to know the value of "confirmed" reservation...

So you're suggesting that if the airline has to choose someone to deny boarding to, they should not consider customer loyalty or fare bracket? That's a horrible way to run a business.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3920
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:20 am

It's totally plausible that (in order) the flight was delayed... Passengers were pulled off.... Weather improved and a new release came up with a better weight capacity with less fuel... Original passengers were paged over the intercom but didn't respond... Other passengers were seated.

Crappy situation but sometimes unintended things happen during irregular operations and creeping delays.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:29 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 44):
So you're suggesting that if the airline has to choose someone to deny boarding to, they should not consider customer loyalty or fare bracket? That's a horrible way to run a business.

-Mir

And remember to always blame the weather!
 
kalvado
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:30 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 45):
It's totally plausible that (in order) the flight was delayed...

Total flight delay: 35 minutes.
Given IDB were done AFTER pax were sited, they really had only a few seconds to update the weather.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8408
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:58 am

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
antoniemey
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: New AA Method To Solve Overbooking Or What

Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:27 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
No excuse for not putting the same deboarded passengers on again

Have you ever been a gate agent? I happen to be one and can think of multiple scenarios in which different people than were offloaded would be put on the flight after a weight restriction was lifted. Not ONE of them has anything to do with whether or not compensation would be given.

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
Because the employees would always be quick to out an embarrassing airline policy that would result in their jobs ending.

If they're following the policies correctly then they need not fear for their jobs for informing an inquiring passenger what that policy is, except in limited cases of security information.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 20):
Only problem is that this presents a HUGE opportunity for abuse. Call dispatch to tweak the route for higher burn. Unload low fare pax, send them to customer service desk in another terminal for rebook.

It would take less work and a shorter delay to just handle the oversale normally, no matter who the need seat is. I don't buy it.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 27):
Assuming premium pax got assigned seating. Swapping some asshole on cheap 5 month out fare (unfortunately with confirmed seat!) in favor of ExPlat on oversold last minute fare may still make sense.

Unless the high value customer bought after control was taken at the gate, it is VERY unlikely they'd be the one stuck without a seat. I've seen it happen, but it's extremely rare. (And the cases I've seen it happen was where an agent working proactively assigned all the seats the night before so that there was no available seat for the premier member to select when they bought the ticket a couple hours out.) That rare exception is handled before boarding, either by finding a volunteer or involuntarily bumping someone... sometimes the last minute purchaser.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos