Rick767
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A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:13 am

I know the climb performance of the 757 is something which generates quite a bit of interest round here from time to time.

It’s not often we get to fly nearly empty 757s around, but at this time of year with the start of the Summer season already in some resorts, we are flying back some empty planes to the UK having taken the first batch of Summer sun-seekers to the warmer climes.

Yesterday we took a very light 757 (by our standards) from Chania (CHQ/LGSA) to Luton (LTN/EGGW).

Just me, the Captain, 6 cabin crew and 16 tonnes of JET-A in the tanks. We had a ZFW just shy of 59 tonnes and a TOW of 75 tonnes (33 tonnes less than MTOW).

With a full thrust takeoff and climb derate 1 (CLB1) we took just 17 minutes from the ground to FL380, including the takeoff roll itself! The peak rate of climb after takeoff was about 4,500fpm, with about 22 degrees nose-up pitch.

What a machine  Big grin


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dragogoalie
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Re:

Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:09 am


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Sounds almost like that guy  Big grin
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:48 am

Pretty impressive stuff!!!

I remember taking off from Seoul, on a windy turbulent day in a 777-200. We were climbing into a 40kt headwind, and due to the turbulence and windshear forecast, we used Max TO thrust and kept the speed down to min clean. We were a light aircraft as well and shot up like an absolute rocket, reaching 5,500fpm at one stage. Of course, it was not sustained as we did a 180 degree turn, and started to accelerate, and once out of the turbulence selected a more suitable climb setting, but it was still impressive to see what is capable!
 
dragogoalie
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Re:

Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:04 pm

Coolest thing I've done while flying an airplane was get a PA-28-161 (Cadet) off the runway in a couple hundred feet because it was extremely cold and extremely windy here. Was pretty fun. Especially with a short field takeoff/climb.

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
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william
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:32 pm

I was on an AA 757 flight out of DCA taking off south,and the climb was pretty much as described. We took off with a steep ascent south climbing over the Potomac,then at 20,000 ft or so,turned southwest for DFW.
 
fspilot747
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 1:48 pm

Sounds like a blast! Thanks for sharing that with us, Rick.


Cheers,
FSP
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:01 pm

Takeoff performance such as the single engine takeoff from Lhasa? Sure it was empty but I can't think of any non afterburner aircraft that could replicate that.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Continental
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:53 pm

When I was with my instructor, I tried a full throttle takeoff, and set the pitch so after rotation we were looking straight up into the sun. Yeah, it's nothing like a 757, but it's the closest I've been to that feeling so far!!

co
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:47 pm

Great stuff Rick! Have you tried that stuff on the 767 as well?
I once experienced a 767 take off and climb to FL410 in 14min. I couldn't believe it.. but have it documented  Wink/being sarcastic
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Rick767
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:12 pm

Jan,

Yes the 767 is hugely overpowered when we fly it on empty positioning flights, but on typical Florida flights at 170 tonnes or more it starts to struggle above about FL270 and in total about 25 minutes is typical to get to TOC in the low 30,000s.

On empty positioning flights of course it is a different story, like you pointed out!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Jan Mogren
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:38 pm

The cool thing is this was a pax flight!  Wow!

But, in Japan so very light on fuel..  Wink/being sarcastic
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
sudden
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:18 pm

Had the pleasure of flying the 752 (Brittania) to/from Gran Canaria.
When we were about to T/O on our way back to GOT, the pilot came to stand on the rwy, started to roll slowly, and after a couple of seconds it was yeeehhhaaa. It's not often you get pushed back in your seat on a airliner, but this was really fun stuff!!!  Smile

Aim for the sky.
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
SAS-A321
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:18 pm

At an airshow/open terminal day at Billund Airport (EKBI) I saw an Iceland Air 757-200 abort the takeoff. Now that is some sight to see it going from full throttle to max rev. and it also sounds pretty nice.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Heard on the radio that they needed 45 minutes to cool down the brakes and a just landed 737 was told to report if they could see any smoke at the main gear.
It's Scandinavian
 
flysab
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:29 pm

Same stuff with the 330 when it is light. I remember when flying for Sabena, we had a flight from Kinshasa to Douala to Brussels. Of course on the leg FIH-DLA we always were very light. We used to take off from the central taxiway in Kinshasa, with full thrust, and usually we reached FL390 in around 13 minutes.
Most of the twin airliners are like that. The 737-400 was also very impressive at light weight.
 
Accidentally
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:21 am

I did a max power t/o from LGA in March. The capt was my good friend, and said to expect "a kick in the pants".
Indianapolis, IN
 
m717
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:52 am

As a former Capt on a B-757, and having flown many other transport jets, such as the B-737, A-320, MD-80 and B-717, I can attest to the spectacular performance of the 757. Nothing I have operated comes close.
 
Rick767
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:18 am

M717,

I assume you are on the B717 now, how does that compare in climb rate? I always percevied the "MD-80 style" twinjet aircraft of this world to be pretty steep climbers.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
KLAX
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:19 am

Rick what airline you flying for?

-Clovis
 
Rick767
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:39 am

I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
KLAX
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:08 am

Well hey! Big grin


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G-OBYD just got painted in TUI. Got it here (LFBO) on Sunday. Send me an e-mail if you ever get to TLS.

-CLovis
 
m717
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:09 am

Rick767,

The 717 has very good climb performance. The engines we operate however, are de-rated to 18,500 lbs thrust from 24,500 lbs, and we de-rate them further for takeoff and climb (i.e. TO-1 -12%, or TO-2 - 18%) if conditions allow. For service beginning next month to DEN, we will be operating several aircraft with engines that are not de-rated. It will be interesting to see the performance capabilities of those aircraft.
 
Shamrock1Heavy
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:38 am

Rick -
Sounds like fun! I love watching the 757 climb, not like the 747 which seem to almost "hang" in the air. What is the trust of those engines anyway?

-D
when in hell, we'll do shots at the bar
 
aloges
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:58 am

Well, I didn't know the 757 is a STOL aircraft.









Now, Rick, if you have some beens, you might get STOVL or even VTOL certified.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 9:16 am

An amazing takeoff is a fully loaded 757 taking off from SNA bound for ORD. Take off is like being in a rocket. The best takeoff from any airport, IMO.

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
Guest

RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 9:56 am

I've been reading, with interest, the posts on this thread. The climb performance of the 757 is very good, but nothing remarkable - many bizjets routinely do at least as well. The bizjets that I normally fly have thrust to weight ratios of 1/2.3 and 1/2.0 at normal operating weights. We need the power to allow us to "direct climb" to FL410 and above where we spend most of our cruise time. It makes for some very interesting rides. We warn our first-time passengers about the acceleration and deck angle. However, the vast majority of our passengers find the experience exhilarating and very enjoyable. As far as performance goes, it's not uncommon to see initial rates of climb in the 6000 to 7000 fpm range and 1500 to 2000 fpm out of FL390. Typical time to climb from "weight off wheels" to FL410 runs about 16 minutes from a SL airport, so you can see the effect that the power to weight ratio has.

Jetguy
 
sudden
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:54 pm

Anytime time anywhere Jetguy, I'm in for a ride!  Big grin
A bizjet is a lamb in wolfcloths, so to speak.

Aim for the sky.
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:16 pm

I've read of a few cases where Learjet's etc have set time to climb records, and that's with a full pax load too  Wow! Jetguy what's the initial rate of climb like when empty? I can just imagine taking off in a Learjet 45 with 2 pilots and no pax, that would be a real rocket ride so to speak!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:56 pm

I've done circuits in a Lear 45, and the first few times when you don't anticipate enough, you really have to push the nose down hard to level at 1500, even if you start your level-out at 300ft before!! It really is a pocket rocket!
 
ha763
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:57 pm

Rwy 22L at HNL is 9000 ft long and I saw an ATA 753 off the ground after only using about 2/3 of the runway (maybe even less). As for the 717, I've seen some HA 717's takeoff with a pitch roughly 3-4 times the pitch of AQ 732's. However, the most impressive climb I've seen was a F-15 taking off and almost going verticle soon after lifting off. The F-15 climbed so fast that I lost it about 5 seconds later.
 
FLYING MACHINE
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Sat Apr 19, 2003 5:06 am

There is a DVD that shows an Air Do Boeing 767-300 ER climbing in 14 min to 41.000 ft at some point reaching a climb rate of 6000 fpm
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POSITIVE RATE
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:07 am

How's this for climb performance: In Feb 1975 an F-15 Eagle set a time to climb record. From takeoff roll up to 98,000 feet in 3 minutes and 27.8 seconds
 Wow!
 
aloges
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:27 pm

OK, so if Bizjets are pocket rockets, the F-15 must be a backpack missile...

By the way, does anyone know a good internet source for thrust/weight ratios? I've been trying to find a handy list for some time, but no success.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:44 am

How does the cabin differential pressure keep up with that fast climb? I've noticed that pilots often monitor the gauge and check the rate of climb in a B737 when flying empty.

We flew empty ABZ-BFS yesterday and although I was not in the cockpit I could tell that after gears up the pilot pulled up quite sharply. It was fun to see the ground fade away in fast forward.
 
trnswrld
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:36 pm

I sat in the jump seat of a TWA 757 (pratt powered) on a ferry flight from MCO-STL. There was the two pilots, me, and maybe 5 flight attendants if that. No pax, no baggage. Anyway, I pretty much 5H1T my pants when he applied full throttle at the end of runway 36R. (If any of your are familiar with MCO, we were probably at atleast 1000ft before we even passed the terminals, shortest ground roll I have ever experienced). From the point we left the ground to about 14,000 ft the VSI was pegged as far as it could go (which is what about what 5-6K ft?). Thats when I went and took a seat in first class so couldnt tell ya how things went from then on. But that was by far the greatest experience I have ever had.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:04 am

A very exhilarating take-off is the afternoon 757 Delta flight from SNA to Atlanta, which is usually quite empty. One day, a few weeks ago, I was on that flight with a total of only 24 passengers. The noise abatement procedures require engine spool-up with the brakes set at the end of the runway, followed by brake release and a jackrabbit start. After rotation, the plane climbs so rapidly, it really pins you to your seat!

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
BA777
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:02 pm

Rick,

How many hours do you fly a month for BY? How long have you been with them, and I guess you are type rated on the 757 and 767?

BTW, Do you much prefer the new colours to the old if you post a pic of a NC 763, or not?

MTIA

Henry
 
Rick767
Topic Author
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:41 pm

Henry,

About 800 hours a year on average, but to average that out over each of the 12 months is not fair because we fly far more in the Summer months (perhaps 85...90 hours per month) compared to the Winter months (when we are lucky to fly half that).

So from May to October we are working pretty flat out, whereas from November to March it is dead, picking up again in April (like it is now for me). Sometimes in the Winter we can go for 2 or 3 weeks at home with no duties, maybe a standby here and there. Not bad getting paid to do nothing! On the other hand we pay for it in the Summer like I said...

So far I only have my roster to May 15th but there is already 45 hours flying in just those 2 weeks, compare that to last November when I flew 8 hours the whole month!

Scheduled pilots like BA and BMI will fly 60-70 hours a month every month which is much more routine. Also they aren't really restricted when they can take their holiday time but we are only allowed so much time off in the Summer, and so we have to take the bulk of our annual leave between November and April.  Sad

I am type rated on both the 757 and 767 (all our pilots are), and I joined in September 1999 as a Second Officer.

As for the livery preference, at first I didn't like the new TUI scheme but I now find it quite attractive, particularly on the 767. It is still nice to fly the old colours as most of the fleet (757s at least) have now been repainted. But the bright blue is here to stay and I do rather like it now. Most of our passengers seem to have positive opinions of it too.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:56 am

The climb performance of the 757 is very good, but nothing remarkable - many bizjets routinely do at least as well.

Maybe. But there aren't many bizjets that have a MTOW of 250,000+ lbs.

I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Guest

RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:13 am

Norman,
That is very true, but who would want to drive a bus, no matter how well it performed, when you can drive a Porche? I've flown large transport category aircraft. After the novelty of flying a "big" airplane wears off there's not much left.

Jetguy
 
m717
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:06 pm

If the "novelty" wears off a 757, or any transport jet for that matter, the same "novelty" wears off a Lear or a Gulfstream, etc. And you are still left with "not much".
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:26 pm

Norman,
That is very true, but who would want to drive a bus, no matter how well it performed, when you can drive a Porche?


Yeah, well, you can do a hell of a lot more things on a bus/RV than you can do on a Porshe'.  Big grin
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Guest

RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:43 pm

You can do a hell of a lot more things on a bus/RV than you can do on a Porshe.

Like what would that be?  Innocent
 
AJ
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:16 pm

I for one would rather drive a bus than a Porsche(I can even spell it). Horses for courses. I like the airline business and flying large aircraft, but that's my thing!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:22 pm

You can do a hell of a lot more things on a bus/RV than you can do on a Porshe.

Like what would that be?


A lot more of them, and do a lot more to them.  Smokin cool
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:43 pm

Different strokes for different folks, guys. Lets not get so offensive.

My personal goal is to fly the biggest, heaviest airplane I can (A380, 744, whatever comes along in the future). I love the structure and order in the airlines. If I'm going to be in a small airplane, it may as well be a fighter jet, because thats the way I would be wanting to treat it. Maybe one of these days I can afford an L-39 or a T-38 to get my desires to pull 7 G's out of my system.  Smile For me, personally, the corporate flying world doesn't appeal to me very much. Too many long days sitting in the FBO waiting for our persistantly late and stuck up passengers to get back, without a care in the world their their pilots have a 3 hour drive home after they get back to base. The ask us to be there at 9am, we are there at 745, have the airplane ready at 820..and have to wait until 1030 when they stroll in... all for 2 hours of block time for a 12 hour or more day.


I guess it just has left a bad taste in my mouth.... I suppose there are better operations out there.

[Edited 2003-04-24 07:58:16]
Chicks dig winglets.
 
gigneil
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:37 pm

M717-

About the derated 717 engines... I thought no planes had been delivered with the BR715-C1-30, which is the higher thrust rating, only BR715-A1-30s.

You guys have some of the higher rated engines?

N
 
m717
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RE: A Testament To 757 Climb Performance

Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:49 am

Neil,

I'll tell you what I know, and then what I've heard. They have begun to placard each aircraft's instrument panel with an engine placard along with the aircraft # and SELCAL code, to differentiate between the A1s and the C1s, thus the need for the placards. The only placards I have seen so far all say BR715-A1-30. However, it is my understanding that there will be several (not sure of the exact number, maybe 4 or 5) that have the C1s, and the primary reason I hear for this is due to the high density altitude at Denver. If and when I fly one, see one that is placarded as a C1, or do one of the DEN flights, I'll let you know.

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