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Amy
Topic Author
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MD-80 Etops?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:24 pm

Can any of the DC-9/MD-80/717 range get ETOPS and if so how long? I'd especially like to know about the MD-87.

Thanks!
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
Newark777
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:09 pm

I don't know why you would really want to, since those planes don't really cross any large bodies of water. They are mostly domestic and don't need ETOPS certification, which would probably cost more money than the airlines are willing to spend.

BTW Welcome to a.net!  Smile

Harry

[Edited 2005-02-10 05:10:24]
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
air2gxs
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:29 pm

ETOPS (as the search function will reveal) does not only refer to overwater operations, but to any route which would take twin engine air transport catergory aircraft more than 1 hour (on one engine) to reach a suitable airport. That being said, I don't think any of the MD-8X class aircraft have the certification.

It would probably be too expensive and not worth the money to produce such an aircraft.

 
pilotaydin
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:32 pm

a/c are not produced ETOPS ready. The airline applies for ETOPS after they show the administration their safety records and their maintenance procedures, it is then up to the admin. ( no not the A.net admin!) to decide on the value of the etops.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
air2gxs
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:19 am

I beg to differ. Aircraft are built ETOPS "ready", as well as CAT "ready". But in order for the airline to operate the aircraft as such, the airline must also be granted the certification.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:21 am

what i mean by not produced ETOPS ready was that they are not delivered as a etops certified a/c.... yes they are configured to operate on one engine and all, but this doesnt make them certified, so we are saying the same thing, sorry for the language.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
timz
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:25 am

How about BWIA and Air Aruba when they flew MD80s from NY to the Caribbean? Did they stay within 60 minutes?
 
Newark777
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:52 am

How about BWIA and Air Aruba when they flew MD80s from NY to the Caribbean? Did they stay within 60 minutes?

I'm pretty sure that they stay within allowed distance to emergency airports. There are so many islands out there in the Caribbean, there is probably always somewhere they can get to. Even if there were gaps, though, I'm sure they can fly a route that keeps them close enough to airports.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
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777wt
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:21 am

Pilotaydin, the 777 is built to be ETOPS certified.
 
Amy
Topic Author
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:17 am

So the still unanswered question is a probably no.

Thanks...

I was just wondering as I noticed the HGW version of the MD-87.
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
jetset
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:20 pm

Not sure the route they flew but Transwede flew the MD83
thru YQX enrte to FLL from ARN and CPH back in the late 80,S
RGDS/JETSET
 
timz
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:42 am

Aha! I thought there were once some transatlantic MD80s. I don't think that's possible on 60 minutes, but maybe it is with 90?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:35 pm

60mins across the Atlantic is certainly possible. Requires a bit of luck ensuring that all enroute airports are open weatherwise, but do-able.

Close to same basic route one operates if one crosses the Atlantic without HF radio availability.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:51 am

Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, but if a non ETOPS airport may fly up to 60 minutes from a diversion airport, wouldn't this mean that the crossing between two diversion airports can be up to 120 minutes, not 60 minutes? If something happens during the first half of the crossing, the aircraft turns back, and if during the second half, the aircraft keeps going.

Even given the lower speeds mandated by one engine inop, this would still mean that crossings longer than 60 minutes can be achieved.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
air2gxs
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:55 am

Starlion, the standard is for non-ETOPS is 60 mins from a suitable airport on one engine. For the sake of this discussion we'll say the speeds (1 eng vs 2 eng) are identical. Yes, the airports can be 120 minutes apart. But you wouldn't fly the route that way. You would fly the most direct (great circle) route possible while staying within 60 minutes of a suitable airport. It is possible to build the route so that you are always right at the 60 minute limit. You don't have to fly point to point.

Some time ago someone posted a site that would give a pictorial representation of a route from x to y based on ETOPS 60, 120, & 180. Maybe someone can find that.
 
timz
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 am

Offhand, my guess is you need Narsarsuaq to get across the Atlantic within 60 minutes-- as I recall Sondre Stromfjord isn't enough. But I'll check.
 
gigneil
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:38 am

The answer is no.

None of the DC-9 series have been approved by the FAA for ETOPS operation, from the DC-9-10 to the 717-200.

N
 
timz
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:52 am

"None of the DC-9 series have been approved by the FAA for ETOPS..."

Or by anyone else?
 
gigneil
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:54 am

Can't speak intelligently to that, but I am unaware of other countries granting ETOPS rights to an American-built airplane without the manufacturer and the FAA doing the testing first.

Has it ever happened?

N
 
dl757md
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:23 am

Some time ago someone posted a site that would give a pictorial representation of a route from x to y based on ETOPS 60, 120, & 180. Maybe someone can find that.

Try http://gc.kls2.com/

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
md80forum
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:03 pm

We have the information that BWIA would have had a 66 mins ETOPS exemption to go get to the US East Coast and Canada by choosing air corridors east of Florida.

We also have the information that Transwede would have had only one MD-83 aircraft certified for 90 mins ETOPS across the Atlantic.

Jan-Erik
www.md80.net
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sun May 01, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 8):
Pilotaydin, the 777 is built to be ETOPS certified.

The aircraft is built ETOPS-ready - not certified. The carrier also needs to be certified. When it comes to 777 and other longhaul aircraft, this is usually taken care of in advance due to the nature of their operation.
For aircraft like the 757 it's a little different .. just ask America West ...
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sun May 01, 2005 5:31 am

North American Airlines was 75 & 90min ETOPS equalified on its single MD-80 during the 1990s to allow for operations in the Western Atlantic and Carribean Sea regions.

The aircraft did have specifics mods and operated under ammended operational and maintenance program for its ETOPS.


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Loadmaster
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Thu May 05, 2005 10:54 pm

Hello :

I dont know if any airline is certified for this particular aircraft type. But for example I can cfm, that the French Civil Aviation has recently renewed for two more years the 120 minutes ETOPS capability for the both ATR-42 500 and 72 500. This aircraft obtained this certification in 1992, and is reviewd every two years. This capability is use specially in the Pacific Area and is in force by Air Tahiti, which flies long sectors over this ocean.
The Etops certification not depends on type, depends really on reability and safety basically.
Regards.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri May 06, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
on its single MD-80 during the 1990s to allow for operations in the Western Atlantic

..."Western Atlantic"?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
and Carribean Sea regions.

...where in the "Carribean" would an airline require ETOPS?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri May 06, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 24):
..."Western Atlantic"?



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 24):
...where in the "Carribean" would an airline require ETOPS?

Western Atlantic is the official FAA term refering to Bermuda and the deep ocean routings from the Northeast US down to the Carribean.

In the Carribean perse one can pretty much always find a suitable airport on a narrowbody aircraft, however the routings to/from can require ETOPS.

The carriers FAA Ops Specs were authorised MD-80 ETOPS for "Western Atlantic and Carribean Sea"
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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September11
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri May 06, 2005 10:30 am

E.T.O.P.S stands for what?

Emergency Top Operation Procedure System?

lol
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777wt
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri May 06, 2005 1:00 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 26):
E.T.O.P.S stands for what?

Emergency Top Operation Procedure System?

lol

Extended-range Twin-engine OperationS

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/etops.html
 
timz
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Fri May 06, 2005 9:42 pm

I guess flights NY to the Caribbean (not Carribean) don't actually require ETOPS, do they? You can always dogleg to stay within 60 minutes. I'd still like to know whether that AF A300 JFK-PTP had ETOPS certif-- or whether it even existed then.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat May 07, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 7):
I'm pretty sure that they stay within allowed distance to emergency airports. There are so many islands out there in the Caribbean, there is probably always somewhere they can get to. Even if there were gaps, though, I'm sure they can fly a route that keeps them close enough to airports.



Quoting Md80forum (Reply 20):
We have the information that BWIA would have had a 66 mins ETOPS exemption to go get to the US East Coast and Canada by choosing air corridors east of Florida.



Quoting Timz (Reply 28):
I guess flights NY to the Caribbean (not Carribean) don't actually require ETOPS, do they? You can always dogleg to stay within 60 minutes. I'd still like to know whether that AF A300 JFK-PTP had ETOPS certif-- or whether it even existed then.

I read in another thread recently that Canjet needed to dogleg to get to Carribean destinations from eastern Canada, which added significant flight time over competitors' flights.
 
brons2
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat May 07, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 26):
E.T.O.P.S stands for what?

Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim!

 Wink  Wink  Wink
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Luis777
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sat May 07, 2005 11:43 am

Everybody hold your horses. . .

Aeroméxico doesn't have ETOPS approval for MD-80s BUT it's true that they have an special approval of 80 minutes extension authorized by Mexican DGAC (Mexican Administrator). That's because sometimes on red-eye flights between Tijuana (TIJ) and Mexico City (MEX) or Guadalajara the only open airport on the area is Mazatlan (MZT), if Mazatlan is closed due weather or whatever there is a gap between TIJ and GDL that exceeds the 60 minutes rule, I repeat, it's not ETOPS but sure it's a very special operation.

Regards

LG
 
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jetjack74
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RE: MD-80 Etops?

Sun May 08, 2005 9:24 pm


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