Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:42 pm

I have collected two 747 crew hatches. One from AerLingus EI-BED and another from a KLM 747. These are the four and a half foot high hatches on side, not the small square ones on top. A difference exists between the two. The KLM door has an extra type of latch on the exterior...I haven't figured it out. Almost looks like a DB COOPER lock. Can anyone shed some light on this mechanism?...Thnx in advance...j
 
User avatar
LHRBFSTrident
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:38 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:21 am

I have no REAL idea - but could it have been related to the fact that some early a/c were delivered with 1 upper deck hatch (starboard side) and were later modified for 2 upper deck hatches? (one either side: KLM and BA both did this as upper deck lounges were converted into pax-carrying cabins)

IIRC EI took delivery of some really early -100 models, whereas KLM and BA received fewer really old models and received more -100Bs and -200Bs...?

Do you have pix you could post - it would be interesting to see - and btw - WHERE did you get these from? - I want one!

[edit] wait - the DBCooper latch was on the exterior because the 727 airstairs opened outwards - but the upper deck hatches open inwards...

also KLM converted some -200Bs into SUD models (stretched upper deck) and in those a/c the hatches would have been deleted - do you know the rego of the KLM a/c it came from?

[Edited 2008-04-02 18:24:38]

[Edited 2008-04-02 18:25:01]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:03 am



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 1):
whereas KLM and BA received fewer really old models and received more -100Bs and -200Bs...?

KL actually never had any 747-100s. All their early 747s were -200Bs (they were the first carrier to order the -200 and the first to put it into service). Their first 7, delivered in 1971, had P&W engines. Only their later GE-powered --200s, delivered starting in 1975, had the subsequent stretched upper deck conversion.

A.net photos show KL's early P&W -200s with just one upper deck emergency exit on the right side. However photos of the same aircraft a few years later show exits on both sides so it looks like that was a modification, probably when they installed saleable seats on the upper deck to replace the original first class lounge. If memory correct, 747s with only the one upper deck exit were limited to around 16 passengers in that cabin, while those with two exits could carry about twice as many. All of KL's later GE-powered -200Bs appear to have 2 upper deck exits from the time they were delivered.
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:35 pm

I'll shoot images today and post. Did KLM actually alter existing aircraft upper lounges from the 100 style deck to the 300 style ???. I always thought they were 300 series only later to find out they were 200's...j
 
LockstockNL777
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:33 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:24 pm

The image is not working overhere  Sad
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:26 pm

OK, having real problem w/ these downloads, hopefully it is now correct...Green door, 747 100, EI-B
Big version: Width: 2533 Height: 3796 File size: 607kb
Big version: Width: 3930 Height: 2622 File size: 532kb
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting LockstockNL777 (Reply 5):

I can fly planes however I can't download photos!!!...I have put in for that to be deleted...sorry...J
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Thread starter):

Can you get me the part Number on the data plate? That way I can look at the drawing.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:18 pm

Miami...65B01833-205
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:34 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 7):

Having the part # can you trace to airframe it belonged to?...j
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 9):
Having the part # can you trace to airframe it belonged to?...j

That is a difficult question to answer. If there is a large variations in the dahs numbers, they could have been effective for certain series (variable or line numbers) and in many cases can be either fully or one-way forward interchangeable. Sometimes a door that has the same form, fit and function can have different part numbers if there has been a modification to the part due to engineering change, service bulletin, etc.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 1):

Think I can get one from TWA bird if your serious..J...N93108 or N93107
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:59 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 10):

Understood, ...I also understand that the lever is a dissarming lever. To me it does look like it was designed much like the DB Cooper lock, so it won't or can't be repositioned in flight...
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:15 pm

There isn't anything on the drawing or the CMM, so that has to be a KL mod. Their DC-10s and 747s had lots of mods that were shared with Alitalia and Iberia.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:35 pm

Miami...One more ?...........I thought I saw in recent past KLM 747/200, PH-BUL with two different upper cabin roofs. Is it possible KLM removed old "hump" in trade for 400 style roof?...or...was the Reg. passed on to newr ship?...Thnx in advance...Gerard.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:36 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 3):
Did KLM actually alter existing aircraft upper lounges from the 100 style deck to the 300 style ???. I always thought they were 300 series only later to find out they were 200's..

KL's first 7 747-200s with P&W engines were never modified. They added 10 747-200s with GE engines a few years later. They were all later modified with the same stretched upper deck as the -300 but officially remained 747-200s but with SUD added to indicate the upper deck conversion. KL also bought 3 factory-built 747-300s which were basically identical to the modified -200s..
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:18 am

KLM really mods out their fleet, I just flew to AMS from JFK on PH-BFD, ASIA "Dubei", I thought it was a straight 400 series till five days later on my outbound, I noticed it had freight door on AFT port side. Thnx for feedback on this stuff...Gerard
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:06 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 16):
KLM really mods out their fleet, I just flew to AMS from JFK on PH-BFD, ASIA "Dubei", I thought it was a straight 400 series till five days later on my outbound, I noticed it had freight door on AFT port side. Thnx for feedback on this stuff...Gerard

Operators can modify their airplanes to suit their needs so long as the mods are done in accordance with appoved/substantiated data. The 747 was a Combi.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 17):
Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 16):
KLM really mods out their fleet, I just flew to AMS from JFK on PH-BFD, ASIA "Dubei", I thought it was a straight 400 series till five days later on my outbound, I noticed it had freight door on AFT port side. Thnx for feedback on this stuff...Gerard

Operators can modify their airplanes to suit their needs so long as the mods are done in accordance with appoved/substantiated data. The 747 was a Combi.

KL didn't modify any of their 744s to combi configuration. Their 17 747-400M combis were all originally built as combis. They also have 5 all-passenger 747-400s, plus 3 747-400ERF freighters.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30125
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Isn't the small handle for Disarming the door....
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:02 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):

Yes...so I found out...J
 
User avatar
kl5147
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:58 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:46 am

Maybe a bit off topic, but I might shine a light about KLM 747's upperdeck modifications.

greetz
Bart
Big version: Width: 543 Height: 563 File size: 138kb
Upperdeck modifiactions of KLM 747's (PW & GE)
"The world is just a click away!"
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:55 pm



Quoting KL5147 (Reply 21):

Bart, thanxmuch for that info, tremendous expense for these type mods!...however does answer my ?'s...have any other airlines performed mods like these to a FLEET?...KLM seems to utilize all of Boings options more than other carriers, is this due to SChiphols location as a SHIPPING port (freight) to Europe?....G
 
User avatar
kl5147
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:58 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Tue May 06, 2008 7:18 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 22):
have any other airlines performed mods like these to a FLEET?...

I don't know if one can call two a/c a fleet *grinnn*, but I am pretty sure UTA had two 300 models (F-BTDG and F-BTDH) modified with an extended upper-deck (like KLM). Unfortunately I don't have any dates for their modifications.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Kipping
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jan Laporte


As a sideline, Japan Airlines had even two 100 models with an extended upper-deck, but I believe they came 'factory fresh' from Boeing.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ito Noriyuki
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Takuji Sohmura




Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 22):
however does answer my ?

I really don't have any idea about he extra latch on the KLM door. Unfortunately I cannot see the pics you posted in this thread anymore. But when I recall the position of the window and instuctions stickers from my memory well, and compare them to to the pre-mofication pics of KLM's PH-BUO, I think your door is a right-side upper-deck door. It is likely coming from one of the ten GE-powered 206 models that have been modified in 1984-1986.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Kipping
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ed Groenendijk



I am sorry I have no more information for you
rgds
Bart
"The world is just a click away!"
 
point8six
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:44 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Wed May 07, 2008 8:11 am

In the early 90's, BA considered converting some 747-200's to SUD's. I was told at the time that it would be about £10m per a/c and involved using a section of 757 fuselage - but I have no other info. to substantiate this. In the event, it was apparently decided by the BA board not to continue with this idea, but to order more -400s. As far as pilots were concerned, there would be no difference in flying characteristics nor cockpit layout.
 
User avatar
kl5147
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:58 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Wed May 07, 2008 8:26 am



Quoting KL5147 (Reply 23):
UTA had two 300 models

Oops, mistake, It should read: "UTA had two 200 models" of course
"The world is just a click away!"
 
soon7x7
Topic Author
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Wed May 07, 2008 8:47 pm

Bart, your correct as it is a right side, the lever I've been told is a door arming mechanism...sorry bout the pix...I needed space for another thread and was unaware that when you clean up images under your profile, it also kills images in the relative thread...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOps!
 
User avatar
LHRBFSTrident
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:38 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Wed May 07, 2008 9:56 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 26):
I needed space for another thread and was unaware that when you clean up images under your profile

yeah - I've done that too Sad

just today figured out how to link images from photobucket.com and flickr.com after several experiments using the [img] [/img] UBB code under the 'Posting Help' link on a.net

off-topic, bit at least it's a 747 - here's my first linked pic:

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/Trident2E/P4150016.jpg
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30125
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu May 08, 2008 4:42 am



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 27):

In this case.
Who normally opens the door.Cabin crew from inside or Ground crew from outside?
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
User avatar
kl5147
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:58 am

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu May 08, 2008 8:08 am



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 27):
bit at least it's a 747 - here's my first linked pic:

This pic brings me to another question.
Is it correct that the maindeck doors on a Boeing 747 have strips on the upper- and lower part, which fold in when the door is opened?
"The world is just a click away!"
 
User avatar
LHRBFSTrident
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:38 pm

RE: 747 200 Side Crew Hatch

Thu May 08, 2008 7:14 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 28):
Who normally opens the door.Cabin crew from inside or Ground crew from outside?

Ground crew - this a/c was catered at 1R and 2R and both doors were opened and closed by Catering staff using the exterior butterfly handle.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/Trident2E/P4150014.jpghttp://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/Trident2E/P4150015.jpg
The procedure varies by airline for opening the main door on arrival and departure - IIRC VS allows only groundstaff to operate the doors

Here's a YouTube video of the QF groundstaff training for 747 maindeck doors - on closing, Cabin Crew take over as the door passes into the Cabin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfVnfujHttw

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 29):
Is it correct that the maindeck doors on a Boeing 747 have strips on the upper- and lower part, which fold in when the door is opened?

Yes - here's a pic that shows these panels (upper only) more clearly:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/Trident2E/P4150019.jpghttp://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm288/Trident2E/P4150020.jpg

ok - official thread-hijack over...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 101 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos