Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
travel
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 4:28 pm

Qantas To Belgrade

Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:52 pm

Qantas once used to fly to Belgrade. Does anyone know when did QF start this service and when did it terminate. Also what aircraft type did Qantas use on the Australia-Belgrade route..
 
Al
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:20 pm

Not sure of the start-end dates, but it used to be a stop on some of the Kangaroo Routes through to London in the mid 70's. A 747-238B would have been used.
Cheers. Al.
 
White Eagle
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:54 pm

Al's right about the B747-238B. Although, on occassion, they did use the 747-338.

When it was in operation, the landing of the "kengur" was spectacular. It was the only scheduled B747 flight into Belgrade. It was also the first scheduled wide-body flight into Belgrade (JAT only got its DC-10s in late 1978).

The routing, as with all 70's and early 80's routings, was multi-stop.

When I flew on it in 1982, it was Sydney-Kuala Lumpur-Bombay (or Karachi or possibly Abu Dhabi)-Athens-Belgrade. I am not sure whether it went on to London. I think the flights terminated at Belgrade, as the plane was usually parked for a while at Surcin's special 747 gate.

The flights were terminated in early 1987.

I think QANTAS withdrew from a number of ancillary routes to focus on those to London, Frankfurt and Rome. QANTAS may have been developing Frankfurt as its European transfer hub to Northern and Eastern Europe.

Other reasons, significant immigration from Yugoslavia stopped in the early 1980's. The Australian government used to pay for some tickets to Australia.

Also, JAT initiated heavy discounting of its own flights through Dubai and Singapore.
 
JU101
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:57 am

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:16 pm

Just to add to White Eagle:

On occasion, Alitalia would fly a B747 into Belgrade also! Today Alitalia uses its MD80s. Interestingly, I doubt that JAT will resume with flights to Australia. I anticipate that by the end of next year, JAT will likely fly direct to Singapoure, where from an undetermined "partner airline" will bring the passengers to their final destination.

In my opinion, this strategy is most promising. It is highly unlikey that JAT would be able to service direct flights to Australia (without a stopover), and still maintain a competative and profitable route. Out of the East-Asian and Australian markets, a destination such as Singapoure would be most welcome. Otherwise, Dubai could be another option (though substanically closer).

Ziveli/Cheers!
 
White Eagle
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: JAT To Sydney

Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:12 pm

Zdravo JU101

Even though the idea of flying only to Singapore has been mooted by JAT, I think flying all the way to SYD would be a better idea. They could seriously capitalise on the fact that only QANTAS, BA, Lauda and Olympic maintain regular routes to Australia.

I also think JAT has traffic rights between Singapore and Australia.

I know for a fact that the Lauda flights are always full, even though they fly five time a week.

If JAT was to cater for the Serbian ethnic market properly, it would fly all the way. The problem with reaching Serbia at the moment is the fact that you have to change planes in Europe. Changing planes in Asia does no remedy the situation. JAT tried and failed to entice many passengers going to Oz to fly with it to Beijing and on to Oz.

On the issue of long-haul flights, I don't think that they are going to happen any time soon. After all the hoo-ha of reestablishing routes the North America, they say they are going to lease YU-AMB (Beograd/Ivo Rusijan) to Nigeria Airways for its own flights to JFK. Go figure!

I am seriously disenchanted with any news coming from JAT. The latest I've heard was that a good portion of fleet is being leased to African airlines. What about that suggestion that the DC-9 has brought in 10.5 million dollars over the last year. They have got to be kidding. If that's true, ILFC watch out - "JAT is coming with its rusty DC-9s".

I seriously think that they should stop dragging their feet and finally sign the deal for the 8 A319s. They should also recall all 9 737-300s from their leases. The DC-9s and the 727s should be disposed of as soon as possible while they are still worth something to a freight airline.

I think if they were smart, they'd lease 3 Airbus A330-200s and start flying immediately to Newark, Chicago, Toronto, Singapore and Sydney.

They have to realise that they are not going to increase their European Network by flying only to Europe. JAT’s overall growth must come from complimentary growth of both its European Network and long-haul network. Passengers flying to Europe from North America, Australia and Asia are not going to switch to JAT for the final portion of their flight. They are going to travel with the airline that has brought them to Europe – Swissair, Austrian, Olympic, Alitalia or Lufthansa.

Dragan – Beli Orao
 
travel
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 4:28 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:12 pm

Speaking of JU. Are there any plans of a fleet upgrade for JU. The DC-10 is a rather old aircraft..
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:24 pm

JU101, it's SINGAPORE, not Singapoure.

Singapour is french for Singapore.

No language has "Singapoure" for Singapore. Like, in Malay, it's Singapura, in German, Singapur (2 dots over the u, whatever that's called) yeah that's all I can think of for now
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:40 pm

And Lauda's Oz flight is via Kuala Lumpur.
 
travel
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 4:28 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 2:51 pm

I think if JU can afford it, they are better of leasing the A340 or 772 aircraft.
 
airmale
Posts: 7128
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Fri Jun 08, 2001 4:14 pm

Qantas never fle to Karachi and JAT used to fly to Dubai Smile
 
White Eagle
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Qantas Routings To Belgrade In 1986/1987

Fri Jun 08, 2001 4:52 pm

I have done some research. It appears that QANTAS was flying to Belgrade well after it dropped its Athens and Amsterdam routes.

QANTAS' routes in September 1986 were:

Sydney-Singapore-Belgrade-Frankfurt and
Sydney-Singapore-Belgrade-Rome

source:1986 QANTAS Flight attendant Union award.

http://www.osiris.gov.au/html/awards/17/Q0012/0/IA000030.htm


 
JU101
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:57 am

RE: JAT To Sydney

Sat Jun 09, 2001 3:29 am

White Eagle,

I share basically the same opinion as you do. Before anything, if JAT were to directly service Australia, it still might be feasible to have a stopover in Singapore. Nevertheless, I have to express disappointment with the fact that JAT did not get proper approval from the American FA, and thus its flights to JFK will not go as planned, for now. As an aside, what exactly was the problem? Its my strong conviction that EU standards are higher than American, with regards to aviation - and the YUAMB has already flown several times throughout Europe up till now.

There is confirmation that JAT has ordered the eight A319s, the first two of which will be delivered in July 2002 (as announced by the new general director). This is promising, and with the revitalization of all cabins in the B737-300 fleet, JAT should certainly have no dilemmas. I also feel that the B737s should not be leased out, and should be, in its entirety, in service for JAT only.

Eventually the B727s and DC9s will be sold off. However, as long as their making much needed money, it should be accepted for now - it seems that this component of JAT are following the path of Aviogenex! Nevertheless, of our economic situation, it is unlikely that JAT will (shortly) make any wide-body purchases. The best they can do (for now), is to lease. It will certainly be a year until the airline has time to re-organize, and re-asses its position towards the long-range markets.

With regards to future wide-body purchases, the A330s would allow for a modest flight frequency to North America. However, the A330 costs about $90 million. As for now, its unlikely that JAT would like to make such a purchase - given that it has ordered eight A319s. On the other hand, A310s cost less than $50 million, so its likely that JAT would favor such a purchase instead. A310s would also allow for a higher flight frequency to North American destinations, and would be exceptional aircraft for the off-season.
 
Guest

Docpepz ...

Sat Jun 09, 2001 8:13 am

Actually, as it turns out that you're the linguist on duty around here .... In German Singapur is only Singapur (without the 'Umlaut''s).

 Smile No hard feelings ...

dcy.
 
White Eagle
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: JAT To Sydney

Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:37 am

JU101

As much as I like the A310-300, I don't think anybody has ordered it in a very long time - 5 years.

It also has a very limited range, about 9000 kilometres. This would make Belgrade-Singapore and Belgrade-LAX impossible and I don't think JAT could get away flying Belgrade-Dubai-Singapore-Sydney in competition with today's one-stop flights to Europe.

I still think leasing the new a330-200s is a better option because of cockpit commonality with the A319s. They can carry about 30 Business Class pax and 250 Economy class passengers. This is very similar to what JAT used to fly with the DC-10s.

On the A319s, I think that they are still only on a letter of intent. Certainly, no JAT order for the Airbuses has ever been confirmed with a signed contract.

Драган - Бели Орао

 
travel
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 4:28 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Tue Jun 12, 2001 4:18 pm

I definitley agree that JU are better off leasing the latest models and the A330 or A340 aircraft would be just as good for them aswell as the new Boeing aircraft.

The A310 is getting out of date..
 
BLACK BOX
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:39 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Tue Jun 12, 2001 11:33 pm

There are heaps more Australian Croats than Australian Serbs, so why dosn't Croatia Airlines think about the Australian market.

 
9A-CRO
Editor
Posts: 1529
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 3:53 pm

RE: Qantas To Belgrade

Wed Jun 13, 2001 12:19 am

BLACK BOX - till just two weeks ago there was very convenient link between Croatia and Austalia - MAS 777 flew from Zagreb to Kuala Lumpur,
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Tomislav Muic

unfortunately this route was terminated so there might be some new service for that market I hope to see Qantas 747's in Zagreb, especially those in special clor schemes
 
White Eagle
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:32 pm

9A-CRO: Qantas Will Never Go Zagreb

Wed Jun 13, 2001 6:01 pm

9A-CRO,

I think you have to be realistic about QANTAS flying to Zagreb.

If it was to fly to Europe wouldn't it it fly to some destination like Paris, Amsterdam, Zurich, Athens, Munich, Brussels or Madrid?

I don't see QANTAS flying to any place in the former Yugoslavia for a very long time just because there aren't enough premium pax. Why do you think they dropped Belgrade in 1987 when jet fuel was fifth of the price of what it is now - QANTAS was losing money!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos