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LupineChemist wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:This is not a source of anything.
KFTG wrote:So they want to trade 91 10-20 year-old aircraft for 100 brand new ones?
If true, another example of Delta's arrogance.
lightsaber wrote:Unlikely rumor. Delta is not taking on debt now. Delta has mid-term contracts on the 717 for parts.
I do expect DL to order the MAX, but later and after brutal negotiations.
Lightsaber
KFTG wrote:So they want to trade 91 10-20 year-old aircraft for 100 brand new ones?
If true, another example of Delta's arrogance.
Nicknuzzii wrote:lightsaber wrote:Unlikely rumor. Delta is not taking on debt now. Delta has mid-term contracts on the 717 for parts.
I do expect DL to order the MAX, but later and after brutal negotiations.
Lightsaber
I think DL is the one who put forward the idea. How would they take in debt from this?
PHLspecial wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:lightsaber wrote:Unlikely rumor. Delta is not taking on debt now. Delta has mid-term contracts on the 717 for parts.
I do expect DL to order the MAX, but later and after brutal negotiations.
Lightsaber
I think DL is the one who put forward the idea. How would they take in debt from this?
New planes cost money, even if its the max. I don't DL is trading the 717 for the Max one for one in terms of capital cost.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:This is not a source of anything.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Call me old school, but I don't give much credibility to a rumor via a tweet.
lightsaber wrote:I do expect DL to order the MAX, but later and after brutal negotiations.
Lightsaber
jholio wrote:PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Call me old school, but I don't give much credibility to a rumor via a tweet.
It's from Jon Ostrower who's a fairly well regard aviation journalist. I tend to think his tweets have more behind them than most.
ehaase wrote:Why would Delta need a large order of anything in the near future? I could see Delta deferring the 321neo's for 3 to 5 years. I don't if it was here or on the airline pilot forum, but someone wrote of rumors of Delta downsizing by roughly 1/3 after 10/1/20.
Wingtips56 wrote:Is there any market for the used 717s? I don't see a value in an exchange if they would just be junked. Are they less-used than HA's current fleet on 717s, that could at least extend 717 flying those short hops in Hawaii?
KFTG wrote:So they want to trade 91 10-20 year-old aircraft for 100 brand new ones?
If true, another example of Delta's arrogance.
codc10 wrote:717s to Boeing, leased to United on extremely attractive terms.
United upcoming MAX delivery slots/orders to DL, avoids UA having to defer/cancel order, and MAX production can resume at a reasonable rate.
RalXWB wrote:They already have a replacement for the 717....the A220. Looking Forward to Dozens of pages of speculations.
cessna2 wrote:Well I can see this coming true. It was announced by ALPA yesterday that DL is looking to permanently park the MD-88/90, 717, 777, and some of the 767 fleet. They need to shed about 3,000 pilot jobs. So assuming Boeing got wind of this, why not offer some new Max jets to be delivered at a later date and take the financial burden of parking the 717 fleet off of DL's hands? Seems like a win/win for everyone involved.
MIflyer12 wrote:codc10 wrote:717s to Boeing, leased to United on extremely attractive terms.
United upcoming MAX delivery slots/orders to DL, avoids UA having to defer/cancel order, and MAX production can resume at a reasonable rate.
UA doesn't want anything that small. It's not aircraft economics - it's UA mainline economics.
flyabr wrote:Let's say that DL is indeed looking seriously at the Max, which version(s) are they most interested in? Max7 or Max8? Wouldn't think they'd need a Max9 or 10 given all the 739ERs and A321s in the fleet, and A321NEOs on order.
UA444 wrote:flyabr wrote:Let's say that DL is indeed looking seriously at the Max, which version(s) are they most interested in? Max7 or Max8? Wouldn't think they'd need a Max9 or 10 given all the 739ERs and A321s in the fleet, and A321NEOs on order.
Most of their 737-800s are 20 years old or approaching, they likely would order the 8 MAX to replace those. They just took over 100 737-900ERs in the last 5 years and intend to fly the 757s for at least another 6-7 years.
8MAX can replace their MD-80’s/90 and 738 in capacity pretty closely.
UA444 wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:codc10 wrote:717s to Boeing, leased to United on extremely attractive terms.
United upcoming MAX delivery slots/orders to DL, avoids UA having to defer/cancel order, and MAX production can resume at a reasonable rate.
UA doesn't want anything that small. It's not aircraft economics - it's UA mainline economics.
91 717s triggers the clause that UA can add more 76 seaters, which is what they’ve wanted. The acquisition costs would be low for these planes too. Since they won’t order the A220, this is a perfect scenario and one I would love to see.
cessna2 wrote:Well I can see this coming true. It was announced by ALPA yesterday that DL is looking to permanently park the MD-88/90, 717, 777, and some of the 767 fleet. They need to shed about 3,000 pilot jobs.
MIflyer12 wrote:UA444 wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:
UA doesn't want anything that small. It's not aircraft economics - it's UA mainline economics.
91 717s triggers the clause that UA can add more 76 seaters, which is what they’ve wanted. The acquisition costs would be low for these planes too. Since they won’t order the A220, this is a perfect scenario and one I would love to see.
We can talk about UA's 2-class RJ relief strategy in another thread but if UA didn't want cheap 737-700s they won't want 717s at any price. https://crankyflier.com/2016/11/17/unit ... eplace-it/
jonair8 wrote:Fake news/click bait. I fail to understand why Delta would be interested in more aircraft. Delta is focusing on shrinking the size of the operations. The MD-88/90 is going away sooner rather than later; that's inevitable, but they do not need more frames than the A220-300s and A321neo they have on order to account for that loss. While DL may be looking to ditch some or all 717s to reduce the size of the airline further, thats where the A220 comes in also. Why do they need additional 738/9 sized aircraft on order? Thats what the A321s on order are for. The A220-100/300 already on order also fit that bill fine. In fact, the 223 was destined to be an M88 replacement anyway. Now's not the time to be spending money. The age of the 738s? They have several A320s older than the 738 flying around without a retirement schedule. What would the cost be to trade the 717 for the 737MAX? What are the economics of operating a 717 vs a 737MAX?
This rumor is absurd, especially since its hidden behind a paywall. Typical media source is looking to make money somehow, and this is a desperate attempt.
I'd like to be wrong about the 717s being switched out for the 737MAX, but at this point I have my serious doubts.
Wingtips56 wrote:Is there any market for the used 717s? I don't see a value in an exchange if they would just be junked. Are they less-used than HA's current fleet on 717s, that could at least extend 717 flying those short hops in Hawaii?