A330-200 Availability On The Market?

ceo@afg · Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:22 am

With SAS mentioning a new longhaul fleet strategy, and having mentioned the only aircraft of interest for an expansion, being a A330-200, with RR engines, what's the chances of SK getting hold of new/used aircraft anytime soon?

It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get ahold of aircraft within a timeframe of 3-4 years.

globeex · Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get hold of aircraft within a time frame of 3-4 years.

Well, if they are lucky they might get one, but rather impossible within the next couple of month..... but you never know.... maybe an airline circles down the drain, otherwise it will be very hard. Can't really imagine that an airline would like to give up of one/or more of their precious 332. Any leasing companies having 332s on order that are not taken yet? Anyways, getting a 332 quickly will sure be not cheap.

GlobeEx

CHRISBA777ER · Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 1):
Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get hold of aircraft within a time frame of 3-4 years.

Well, if they are lucky they might get one, but rather impossible within the next couple of month..... but you never know.... maybe an airline circles down the drain, otherwise it will be very hard. Can't really imagine that an airline would like to give up of one/or more of their precious 332. Any leasing companies having 332s on order that are not taken yet? Anyways, getting a 332 quickly will sure be not cheap.

GlobeEx

May be getting to about that kind of time when the first of EKs two leased A332s get RTLed.

I think I read somewhere it was early-2008 they expire. Not sure but I'll check and revert.

globeex · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:23 am

Will EK give them back to the leasing company? I mean, actually the 332 is the perfect aircraft (so far) for EK to look how new destinations of them run on a daily basis without the risk of scheduling a 772 or bigger on such a route. On the other side they can take the risk of putting a big aircraft on a new route that might make a loss, I mean, we all know that EK gets fuel for free and does get the money from the sheiks duck

GlobeEx

EI321 · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
With SAS mentioning a new longhaul fleet strategy, and having mentioned the only aircraft of interest for an expansion, being a A330-200, with RR engines, what's the chances of SK getting hold of new/used aircraft anytime soon?

To put it bluntly, slim to no chance of getting A330's in the short term. They would get A340's, 767's or 777's easier.

Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get ahold of aircraft within a timeframe of 3-4 years.

It should be easy to get new A330 slots four years from now, esp if the production rate jumps.

kl911 · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get ahold of aircraft within a timeframe of 3-4 years.

how about getting them from other star alliance carriers that tried the 332 and want something bigger?

FBU 4EVER! · Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
It should be easy to get new A330 slots four years from now, esp if the production rate jumps.

Sure,but 4 years from now,SAS is more likely to order the A350 or 787. If they decide to expand intercontinental services now,the will need the planes NOW.Latest next year. According to SAS Intercont. CEO,Lars Lindgren,the prferred plane at the moment is the A332.He does not want any more A340's. There aren't that many *A operators of the A332,so this might not be an alternative.

CV990 · Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:24 pm

Hi!

I agree with EI321, SK will not have a big problem in 4 years to get their A332's! We know that this aircraft got a big boost on the orders but even like that, if SK makes a commitment let's say until the end of this year they can have them at the time they want! I guess SK can order the planes now and ask Airbus to deliver them WHEN SK wants right???
Regards

CHRISBA777ER · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:27 pm

Bear in mind that within four years, a number of airlines will be recieving 787-8s, so one assumes the availability of new A332s will not be quite so tight.

Airlines that use the A332 currently that have the 787 on order:

Air China (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using Rolls-powered A332.
China Southern Airlines (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using Rolls-powered A332.
Jet Airways (787 deliveries from 2011) currently using Rolls-powered A332.
Monarch Airlines (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using Rolls-powered A332.
Northwest Airlines (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using CF6-powered A332.
Qantas (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using PW4000-powered A332.
Qatar Airways (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using PW4000-powered A332.
Vietnam Airlines (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using CF6-powered A332.

Of those I would say Vietnam would have ended the wet leases on its A332 long before then, and the rest probably wouldnt be shedding the A332 from their fleets when the 787 arrives, more likely cascading it down to replace 767 and A300 types in the fleet.

Interesting stuff.

flytuitravel · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:36 pm

Hi Chris, just noticed a few mistakes in your post!

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Jet Airways (787 deliveries from 2011) currently using Rolls-powered A332.

9W also use CF6 on the A332, the leased ones are Trent 700 though.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Northwest Airlines (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using CF6-powered A332.

NW use the PW4000 on their A332s.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Qantas (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using PW4000-powered A332.

QF use the CF6 on their A332s.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Qatar Airways (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using PW4000-powered A332.

QR use the CF6 on their A332s.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Vietnam Airlines (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using CF6-powered A332.

VN use the PW4000 on their 332s.

And I can assure you that airlines won't replace their very young A332s when the 787s arrive, I think they are planning on expanding.

Smile

kaitak · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Qantas (787 deliveries from 2008) currently using PW4000-powered A332.
Qatar Airways (787 deliveries from 2010) currently using PW4000-powered A332.

Sorry to be picky, but these are both GE operators (-202/203).

The A332 is certainly the flavour of the month (or longer!), but I had understood that Airbus was steadily increasing the production rate. Since A340 demand has pretty well died away, apart from the odd small order here and there (Kingfisher, for example), there should be more scope to increase demand.

CHRISBA777ER · Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:55 pm

Apologies -

I get them mixed up. One has a blunt exhaust cone and the other has one with the "sticky-outy pointy bit" (please excuse the ultra-technical explanation!)

Always thought the pointy ones were PWs, and the CF6s were the blunt ones that resemble the CF6s on 747s and 767s.

Now I know different - cheers. Smile

columba · Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting CEO@AFG (Thread starter):
It's not like the A332s grow on trees, but the longhaul market is going through such a massive expansion and the A330 is setting new sales records this year, so I find it hard to believe SK really can get ahold of aircraft within a timeframe of 3-4 years.

I have just read that lease for AB/LTÂ´s A332s expire in 2010/11 and they will lease 787s instead before their own 787s arrive maybe these A332 would be of interest for SAS.

flytuitravel · Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Always thought the pointy ones were PWs, and the CF6s were the blunt ones that resemble the CF6s on 747s and 767s.

At least you could find a difference - I can never see the difference between GE and PW!

Wink

ManchesterMAN · Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:20 pm

bmi are getting 2 RR powered A330-200s next year but will have no new transatlantic routes to fly them on. Perhaps BD could lease their new aircraft to SK for 1 year until they are ready to fly transatlantic from LHR?

ORDagent · Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:51 pm

I doubt that most airlines are going to dump the 330 as soon as the 787/350 become available. It still is an efficent aircraft.

davidkunzVIE · Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:28 am

Now, does it make sense to concentrate that much on the engine choice, when you are running out of capacity?

How exactly would it affect SK if they used GE or PW engs, just for the sake of an earlier delivery? Theoretically speaking, of course.

ANITIX87 · Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
how about getting them from other star alliance carriers that tried the 332 and want something bigger?

LX is slowly getting rid of their 332s. It'll be a while until they can be bought by someone else, but with the recent A333 order, the 332s should start leaving the fleet in a couple of years or so. The problem is that LX doesn't use RR, so unless SK wants to do engine swaps, this may not be worth it for them.

TIS

PADSpot · Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:06 am

Some posters here seem to assume that the EIS of B787 will ease the pressure on the A330 market. I think it will tend to put more pressure on B767 operators to take A330 as an interim or to replace them with B787 right away if possible. It's the weakest product that will loose between 2008 and 2013 not the second weakest one. The actual pressure on prices and leases will be passed on to the B763. The A330 will soon be sold out until the defined end of the A330pax production, leaving the actual market supply fixed until the first frames go the bone yard.

[Edited 2007-08-29 18:33:03]

gilesdavies · Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 14):
bmi are getting 2 RR powered A330-200s next year but will have no new transatlantic routes to fly them on. Perhaps BD could lease their new aircraft to SK for 1 year until they are ready to fly transatlantic from LHR?

This was exactly what I was thinking...

If BMI are deferring Transatlantic services till Summer 2009, they should let SAS have their delivery slots and BMI negotiate slots for late 2008/early 2009.

Even though SAS currently has no A330-200 currently in their flee, it comes as no surprise they want these in the fleet. And as was discussed in a thread a few months back the A330-200 could do all the routes SAS get the A340 to fly on and their would only be a marginal drop in capacity, while benefiting from better operating costs. While leaving the A330-300's for the heavier demand routes.

I wonder if the A340-300's will soon be on on their out?

EI321 · Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Always thought the pointy ones were PWs, and the CF6s were the blunt ones that resemble the CF6s on 747s and 767s.

The CF6 comes in both flavours, Pointy or blunt. I think they changed it at some stage. In fact there are a few A330's flying around that have one of each - Photos are in database.

ManchesterMAN · Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
The CF6 comes in both flavours, Pointy or blunt. I think they changed it at some stage. In fact there are a few A330's flying around that have one of each - Photos are in database.

Are you sure? I thought on the A330, the GE engines have always been pointed ever since the first aircraft for Air Inter through to the latest KLM birds.

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